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Oklahoma Aftermath

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I would rather see OSU start Haskins or Burrows (whichever they feel is the future/guy next year) this season and deal with the ups and downs of it, than watchin JT do the exact same JT things. We know what we have in JT, and what that is likely isn't enough to win the B10 even at the way we've started so far, and almost certainly no way we are contending seriously for the playoffs.

It is in no way all of JT's fault, but I've seen enough of him. I love the kid, I love what he's been at OSU, but enough is enough. Sadly, Urban is going to be far too stubborn and refuse to make any changes. Perhaps he will eventually come to the realization far later in the season. I love Urban as well, but I guarantee you Saban would have no problem making a change if needed. Saban is the guy who cans his OC before the NC if it needed to be done. Urban seems to be losing his firey demeanor a bit, almost putting up with this kind of crap too much, too much of an apologist.
 
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It's ironic that during the Tressel years we'd complain about QB play/development and predictable play calling, then we ran into the buzz saw that was the 2006 Gator team with their dynamic young offensive mind at HC, then we got that HC, and now they can't complete a pass 15 yards down the field because of QB play/development and limited play calling. It must be something in the walls of the Woody Hayes that make great coaches lose their minds, and the ability to solve their woes.

The inside run game is where this offense lives and dies. From here, the offense can open up. The problem has been the reluctance to establish this, for whatever reason. The offensive line, particularly the right side, has impacted the offense's success, and not in a positive way.

However, this compounded with the extreme limitations of the QB and the WRs they choose to deploy, is really a nightmare scenario. Wilson calls the plays, and Zach Smith chooses who is deployed where. I think Smith can develop guys, but he is unrealistic about who can do what. After the 67th attempt, it should be obvious that guys like McLaurin and Campbell can't run routes. A microcosm of this offense is Campbell rounding off an out route against zone coverage, runs straight to the defender who hasn't moved, and then JT throws the ball when Campbell is in the defenders lap, and the pass is broken up. Some of these guys are receivers and some are guys who can catch easy passes and run with the ball. Put them in positions to do what they do well.

Urban Meyer got to where he is on the back of the run based spread option. He can say he doesn't care about scheme, but results show otherwise. Quite frankly, he's lost his aggressiveness and so have his coaches. There's no risk, all the way down to the QB. Couple that with a broken QB who can't throw the ball particularity well and is more timid in the run game than ever before, you get a nightmare scenario ^ nightmare scenario. JT isn't even running play fakes and sprint options well. He's keeping his head up while faking the play action. The option plays are high school option plays; even Alabama is better at running inverted veer options, and JT is walking through options. Additionally, he's leaving yards on the field when he does get space, probably because he doesn't want to get hit anymore.

It's hard to defend JT at this point. He's not going to revert to 2014 again, and even then, he would need to be at the level he played his best games in 2014 to be a middle of the road FCS QB. Will a new QB fix at least one variable in this equation? I expect the coaches to know, or at least be willing to find out in practice, if not on the playing field.
 
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inliner311 said:
I really think this is a move to develop JT for the NFL. Urban doesn't want him to get knocked that he can't read defenses. He tried it with Cardale too.

After last night, I think they will scale the plays back that have JT reading the defense and they will install more player specific plays to take the pressure off JT. It will take more on the coaching staff to change plays and to set up one play with another. It might be a knock to JTs draft stock but if we keep down this road, JT will go undrafted and we will keep losing big games.
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I don't believe any of this because JT has never had a draft stock. Urban Meyer can thank JT for not going pro all he wants, but it won't make it true. They tried to develop a spread passing attack for Cardale without anyone capable of implementing the concepts required to make it happen.
 
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Poe McKnoe said:
I don't believe any of this because JT has never had a draft stock. Urban Meyer can thank JT for not going pro all he wants, but it won't make it true. They tried to develop a spread passing attack for Cardale without anyone capable of implementing the concepts required to make it happen.
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I don't think JT has much of a draft stock, I think he is a 6 or 7th rounder at this point. I don't think any team uses a draft pick on him that they aren't willing to burn by cutting him before the season starts.

Do I think Urban sees it the same way? No, I think he likes JT too much to believe it. I think Urban sees all the reasons why Tebow isn't in the league and has tried to develop JT so he has a chance in the NFL. I think he tried it with Braxton and Cardale too, especially if you listen to how he talked about both of them in the offseasons. Braxton got hurt and asked to switch positions for his own good.
 
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Roundabout said:
I'd agree if Clemson hadn't just done that 2 games ago... Think coaching needs to makes some tweeks on the O side of the ball.... to early to make rash judgements on the D though IMO.
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Good points. How many soul cleansings do you need? Lol.

When a team isn't playing to their potential, you think of all the things we have discussed, but there is another one we haven't. It's possible that there is some division, disagreement, whathaveyou within the team. I think this was the core of Sparty's problem last year. Buckeye Nation has been divided on JT. It's not impossible that players have different views too. Not saying they do, just wondering. I can see something like younger players wanting Haskins and the older group telling them to shut up and stay in their place.

One thing I know for sure - all of the talk coming out of the Woody Hayes in the off season has been a bunch of PR spin. I'm tired of hearing that issues have been fixed. Need to see it.
 
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I love JT - the only personalized jersey I have, the same guy I trumpeted support for all last year.

He has to sit.

The offense is at a disadvantage with him - we are getting stacked and dared to beat and we can't. He hesitates too much, you simply can't do that against Oklahoma. Army? Sure. OU? No. He doesn't have the confidence in his arm, the defenses don't believe him, the offensive play calling doesn't trust him either.

It's not ideal, but Burrows or Haskins has to step in and now is the time to do it, when you have a schedule that can wean them in. You hesitate now, you'll lose the season. When was the last time you saw JT drop back and make a quick, decisive read and make a strong strike with a throw of 10-15 yards? We've ran those routes, we've had those looks, we just haven't done it. Hard to have an offense to fear when you can't do that.

Oh.....and get McCall the damn ball!
 
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ORD_Buckeye said:
I also think it's time to get a pro type guy in there. We've recruited qbs based on Meyer's Utah-Florida rep, but we're dangerously close to being seen as the place where qbs get turned into nfl receivers.
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I think Haskins and Burrows are more pro type QBs than JT or Braxton were. Cardale was built as good as any pro type QB. Charlie Day just needs to stay around long enough to develop Haskins or Burrows. JTs development was hurt by not having a good QB coach or OC after Herman. Tim Beck was a bad overall coach and Warner was a better coach for the oline and RBs.
 
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I question how much authority Meyer actually gives his OC when games get tight. Time after time when we get in close games we revert to QB runs and passes only to the sidelines and it has been that way through the past 3 Offensive Coordinators. Every time we play in a tight game JT has more carries than our RB's and they are supposed to be our strength. None of our guys are Tim Tebow we need to move on. Meyer seems to have some aversion to using the middle of the field (it may be that he doesn't have enough confidence in JT's accuracy and tendency to overthrow) but it has been the same in every loss for the past 5 years no matter who is "calling the plays" You hired these guys who are supposed to be guru's, trust them.....
 
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One thing that stood out to me, OU was bigger across the board when covering our wideouts. The lone exception ? Victor (who may not be larger weight Wise)

I'd love to know whether JT was actually targeting Victor on that catch out of bounds, or his absurd range allowed him to comfortable catch a pass thrown that far out of reach.
 
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I think Burrows and Haskins clearly are better and more confident throwers than JT. I don't know their grasp of the offense.

Defensively I think we miss Fickell a lot. Our veteran linebackers have virtually disappeared and last year they were playmaking machines.
 
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Someone needs to seriously look at Greg Studrawa and Zach Smith and whether or not they should remain on the coaching staff.

I didn't like the Billy Davis hire when it happened (it reminded me of Tim Beck). I still don't like it, even though it's early in his tenure.

As a leader, I don't think Urban needs to be loyal to anything but production.
 
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Offense continuously attacks side to side and not vertically. JT definitely has the arm he just wont throw it because he is afraid of the mistake. Thats mental and he didnt have that in 2014. Two deep balls last night should have been caught that werent. Only Mack wanted it bad enough to go get it. That should be more playing time for him. Hill and McLauren missed their opportunities. At the time I thought the pass to Hill was just a desparation heave but going back it hit him square on the hands which was a damned impressive throw.

It's probably too late to fix JTs mental game now but if those guys would make some damn plays, sell out for them like Mack did, JT might be serviceable. At this point though, this season is not going to go how it should. And yes, I still blame Beck the QB coach because whatever he did or didnt do fucked JT and this offense up.
 
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