Tablet Ignites Debate on Messiah and Resurrection

[Buckeyeskickbuttocks]

JERUSALEM ? A three-foot-tall tablet with 87 lines of Hebrew that scholars believe dates from the decades just before the birth of Jesus is causing a quiet stir in biblical and archaeological circles, especially because it may speak of a messiah who will rise from the dead after three days.
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NYTimes Article

Long way to go before this tablet's particular significance is solidified, but, interesting none-the-less.

 

[t_BuckeyeScott]

Interesting read, but poorly written. From the article it is hard to tell whether Mr. Knohl thinks the tablet supports Christianity or not. It feels like the guy was trying to meet a deadline with it and didn't take time to make it clear.

 

[Jake]

Added to the Book of Jubilees, Enoch, and the Gospel of Mary and the Bible's alleged position as the "Word of God" comes even more into question.

The reality is "Christianity" has been manipulated by Man for centuries, so much so that to assert that any Bible today - any of the multiple versions of it - represents the "Word of God" requires so much blind faith it is almost laughable.

 

[Buckeyeskickbuttocks]

Interesting read, but poorly written. From the article it is hard to tell whether Mr. Knohl thinks the tablet supports Christianity or not. It feels like the guy was trying to meet a deadline with it and didn't take time to make it clear.

I agree. When I saw the headline (on Yahoo) I thought it was a piece about how Jesus was not the messiah. Then, in the first half of the piece, I thought the find supported Christianity, but then by the end I was back to my original thought, that it was contrary to Christianity. That, and the fact that I did about 15 minutes of research on it to find out more.

The consensus appears to be that the document discusses a messianic figure named Simon, not Jesus, who saved Israel the nation and not mankind individually, died and then rose in 3 days. The implication is that the idea of Jesus doing the same thing some 30 years later was not a new way of thinking about potential messiahs. There are more implications, of course, but I don't want to get in to that at the moment....

Room appears to be left, however, to dispute the translation of the critical paragraphs (Key words are smudged and from my read/research appear to be "guessed at"). Likewise, while the articles and people commenting on the topic all appear to be of the mind that Christianity takes a hit here, I don't believe it will be long before the Christian side of this start establishing it as evidence that Jesus was indeed the Messiah. For example, one objection to the Messiah is that no text calls for a figure which dies and rises again.... now, there is such a text. They just had the wrong guy (Simon).

Anyway... it'll take many years to figure out the significance of this document. Ultimately, we'll do with this the very same thing we do with everything else.... accept it, or deny it, or accept and deny parts of it depending on what we think is believable or not.

 

[sandgk]

accept or deny, ...

or find out ultimately that the thing isn't all it was hoped to be - lots of clever fakes out there.

It'll be interesting to see the summary of the analysis that Yuval Goren has submitted for peer-reviewed publication.

 

[Buckeyeskickbuttocks]

accept or deny, ...

or find out ultimately that the thing isn't all it was hoped to be - lots of clever fakes out there.

It'll be interesting to see the summary of the analysis that Yuval Goren has submitted for peer-reviewed publication.

Yeah, the fact that it's ink on stone strikes me as odd. Not that I know anything about it. Just never heard of a stone tablet that's been inked, rather than carved.

 

[Jake]

I was raised in a Christian environment, and despite experiencing multiple examples of family and friends being "born again" and ultimately deciding that meant they no longer could associate with the rest of us, I tried to keep an open mind.

In the end, the notion of Jesus Christ being the "son of God" is about as believable as Thor being the god of thunder. The fact that it has managed to form a global cult and recruit millions of willing dupes doesn't make it any more based in reality.

People want to believe that there is something better waiting for us when we die. We want to believe we'll be reunited with loved ones who have passed as long as we play by the rules. Hell, I'd like to believe that, too.

Unfortunately, no religion passes the smell test of logic, as they're all full of holes and flaws that one has to dismiss in order to have faith. Meanwhile, they immerse themselves in this world by raising billions of dollars, garnering power, and in some case killing those who don't agree with them.

Thank you, but I'll pass on the concept of religion, altogether.

 

[BuckStocksHere]

I was raised in a Christian environment, and despite experiencing multiple examples of family and friends being "born again" and ultimately deciding that meant they no longer could associate with the rest of us, I tried to keep an open mind.

In the end, the notion of Jesus Christ being the "son of God" is about as believable as Thor being the god of thunder. The fact that it has managed to form a global cult and recruit millions of willing dupes doesn't make it any more based in reality.

People want to believe that there is something better waiting for us when we die. We want to believe we'll be reunited with loved ones who have passed as long as we play by the rules. Hell, I'd like to believe that, too.

Unfortunately, no religion passes the smell test of logic, as they're all full of holes and flaws that one has to dismiss in order to have faith. Meanwhile, they immerse themselves in this world by raising billions of dollars, garnering power, and in some case killing those who don't agree with them.

Thank you, but I'll pass on the concept of religion, altogether.

Here's the rub - if you are right, nothing happens. No big deal. You die and that's it.

If I'm right about Jesus, GOD, Heaven, etc., I'm in Heaven for all eternity and you are in hell for eternity.

I'd rather take my chances on Christianity. (not that that is the reason I believe).

 

[Clarity]

Here's the rub - if you are right, nothing happens. No big deal. You die and that's it.

If I'm right about Jesus, GOD, Heaven, etc., I'm in Heaven for all eternity and you are in hell for eternity.

Certainly not mocking anyone's religion, but if we're going for payoff (I recognize you're not) in case one group is right, we should probably all be pulling magic underwear on so we can be gods ourselves.

 

[BuckStocksHere]

Certainly not mocking anyone's religion, but if we're going for payoff (I recognize you're not) in case one group is right, we should probably all be pulling magic underwear on so we can be gods ourselves.

Well yeah - if it's all about payout - I'd have to do some studying.

Don't worry about mocking - It doesn't both me much anyway. I'm a hard head and it took me years of "questioning" and "enlightenment" to finally come around to believing. Yeah, I went to Sunday School for years and years and went to church for years and years(Episcopal if you were wondering) but still wasn't fully "all in".

I'm now all in but I have A LOT to learn still. Faith is one of the hardest things to attain (in my opinion) and also one of the greatest areas of ridicule by those that don't believe.(not saying you are doing that either)

I've (kind of) been on both sides, so I get it to a point. It is hard for many to belive in a "little old guy on top of a cloud ruling over all" as I once was told.

eh - it works for me so I guess that is good enough for me. My dad I think belives in God but doesn't really care about religion and I'm betting hasn't been to church in about 40 years. It is sad for me to think I won't see him again, but I can't make him decide. He has to do it on his own.

wow - diatribe...m.us..t. sto..p n.o...w

 

[Jake]

Here's the rub - if you are right, nothing happens. No big deal. You die and that's it.

If I'm right about Jesus, GOD, Heaven, etc., I'm in Heaven for all eternity and you are in hell for eternity.

I'd rather take my chances on Christianity. (not that that is the reason I believe).

If that's not the reason you believe then why lead with it? All you told me is that you've decided to buy fire insurance. :ohwell:

If God is all knowing he knows your true motivation. I'll see you in hell.

 

[CookyPuss]

Here's the rub - if you are right, nothing happens. No big deal. You die and that's it.

If I'm right about Jesus, GOD, Heaven, etc., I'm in Heaven for all eternity and you are in hell for eternity.

I'd rather take my chances on Christianity. (not that that is the reason I believe).

There are plenty of holes in Pascal's Wager you might want to consider (not that it is the reason you believe). However, if one is merely hedging their bets, they might want to try polytheism.

As for the tablet, if it is authentic it wouldn't surprise me. The way history was written at that time was very different than how we consider "history." It was more fluid and the purpose was to explain events rather than report "facts." History then was more akin to editorial articles in the newspaper than to the straight news stories. So, it wouldn't be surprising that a "risen on the third day" motif was already in circulation. The actual time of the "resurrection" is actually unknown, as it was the discovery of the empty tomb that reportedly occurred on the third day. This stone simply offers an interesting parallel and a possible lens through which the disciples understood the events they experienced. It neither proves/disproves anything about Christianity nor informs us much about anything. We already know there were many stories of messiahs and miracle workers, even people rising from the dead throughout Jewish history. Something was different about his followers experience of Jesus, and no stone tablet is going to change that... no matter what it says. I'm not saying it is meaningless, but if you understand the culture of the day it is not groundbreaking stuff.

 

[buckiprof]

Unfortunately, no religion passes the smell test of logic, as they're all full of holes and flaws that one has to dismiss in order to have faith. Meanwhile, they immerse themselves in this world by raising billions of dollars, garnering power, and in some case killing those who don't agree with them.

Thank you, but I'll pass on the concept of religion, altogether.

Which is why I have believed for many years now that organized religion has been the ruination of true spirituality.

 

[BUCKYLE]

Which is why I have believed for many years now that organized religion has been the ruination of true spirituality.

Amen. (No pun intended...if that is an actual pun...I'm not sure.)

 

[Gatorubet]

Here's the rub - if you are right, nothing happens. No big deal. You die and that's it.

If I'm right about Jesus, GOD, Heaven, etc., I'm in Heaven for all eternity and you are in hell for eternity.

I'd rather take my chances on Christianity. (not that that is the reason I believe).

Hedging your bets is a good strategy. As Voltaire said on his death bed to a Priest who asked him to renounce Satan - "Now, now my good man, this is no time for making enemies."