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the browns and their O-line.

Discussion in 'Professional Football' started by biggsj6030, Dec 12, 2004.

  1. biggsj6030

    biggsj6030 "Only the dead have seen the end of war." -Plato

    There are many O-linemen entering the draft this year and im willing to bet that there are a lot of good ones. Since the browns will have (nost likely) the 2nd or 3rd draft pick they should get an O-linemen, with ease. If they are smart enough to draft one and not waste it on some QB or HB. They should also be able to get another good lineman in the 2nd. But they need another O-line coach, such as that Grim guy i was reading about in the paper. He could be the next head coach, to bad he's from Pttsburg.
  2. MililaniBuckeye

    MililaniBuckeye The satanic soulless freight train that is Ohio St Staff Member Tech Admin

    I think I saw a graphic that said Cleveland had 17 yards total offense. You gotta be fuckin' kiddin' me...
  3. biggsj6030

    biggsj6030 "Only the dead have seen the end of war." -Plato

    IT WAS 17!!!!! Better then I expected.
  4. ohiobuck94

    ohiobuck94 Buckeye Beach Bum

    Rushes-yards 17-29
    Passing (-12) :(
  5. biggsj6030

    biggsj6030 "Only the dead have seen the end of war." -Plato

    Not i can really see the O that BD was trying to install, man he so good im glad we let him back this season. I mean the Learner family was so smart they will probably higher another good coach like him.

    lets not get off subject. :smash:
  6. AmeriBuck007

    AmeriBuck007 Honey, Frank the Tank is not coming back

    had 2 total yards late in the fourth but we picked up our act and added 15 more..

    doubtful that we'll take an OLineman first round, but we'll probably take 3 total in the draft, I think we take Rolle or Johnson..

    You gotta remember the Oline isn't the only problem, our whole team is the problem..
  7. OH10

    OH10 *

    I wouldn't mind if they spent the entire draft worrying about the O-Line

    and the D-Line, the LBs, the CBs, a QB, a RB, and a couple of WRs.
  8. buckiprof

    buckiprof 21st Century Buckeye Man Staff Member

    The play of the o-line was offensive!

    Don't bitch about Grimm being from Pittsburgh. First, he was a damned good o- lineman in Washington, an original 'Hog'. Second, he is coaching arguably the best o-line in the NFL. Third, all he wants to do is be a head coach; he doesn't want to be the personnel guy. And fourth, don't forget where Pittsburgh's coach, Bill Cowher, came from. Which brings me to fifth, bringing Grimm here could also help weaken a division opponent.

    The team has many problems and one is the inability to stay healthy. There really is some decent talent on the IR list! But you do hit a point that there are several areas of need on the team. For that reason, trading down in the draft might be the best option for this team. If they can parlay the, let's assume, 3rd pick in the draft for 2 other picks later in the 1st round, then I think that's what they should do to help fill as many holes as possible. I agree with you Ameribuck that we need to take 3 o-linemen in this draft and I hope that none taken are lower than the 5th round.
  9. Brutus654

    Brutus654 Reality continues to ruin my life.

    Same old same old with the Browns. The O-line sucks, the coachings bad, the big money players don't perform the way they should or are capable of doing. What I really don't understand is how they started 3-3 the past 2 seasons and then stopped winning any games and even competing in most of those games. I mean for christs sake 37-7, thats just sorry.
  10. Lazlo

    Lazlo Good people drink good beer. ~ HST

    anyne knoow where mike munoz projects?
  11. biggsj6030

    biggsj6030 "Only the dead have seen the end of war." -Plato

    I know there are more problems then the O-line but the game is won in the trenches. It doesnt matter who you have in the backfield if the front five are awsome then you need nothing else. And same goes for D if the front 4 are effective at getting pressure on the QB and cloging up holes the D as a whole will be awsome.

    Im not bitching I hope they do get him and i dont care how much it costs. (because im not paying) I just dont like Pittsburg but ANYTHING is better then Davis.
  12. GoofyBuckeye

    GoofyBuckeye Nutis Maximus

    Munoz projects late first round to second round. All depends on how his past injuries look.

    Remember, the OL is all scheme not where they are drafted. Denver routinely has the best line but there isn't a single first rounder on the team
  13. tsteele316

    tsteele316 Mr. Such and Such

    <!-- / message --><!-- sig -->

    A common misconception about denvers o-line comes from this. yes most of them are rd and 4th round picks. however, none of them were needed as immediate starters. its fine to mold and build an ol and develop young players, so long as you have quality starters in place at the time. cleveland does not.
  14. Savante

    Savante The Ruler's Back

    George Foster, their very good RT, is a first rounder. Their best lineman, Dan Neil, is a 3rd rounder. Ben Hamilton is from the fourth. Most Broncos fans I know hate Matt Lepsis, who is an OK LT that was an UDFA. The only person that has really really exceeded expectations is Tom Nalen, who was drafted in the 7th. Otherwise, you can get good guards in the 3rd and 4th, but the NFL proves that you really need to draft a LT high to have a good one, and LT is the most important position on the line.

    It's not just about the scheme. It can be argued that the scheme is more important than the players, but I still wouldn't go along with that. If you look at who the good LTs in the league are, you'll see that if they weren't drafted in the first, they're an anomaly.

    You have to get talented players. What good is a scheme if the players are too slow or too weak to execute? The Broncos are an anomaly because their scheme is designed for smaller, quicker lineman, who don't need to be strong. Therefore, they don't need to always get the best lineman. Most teams don't even have that much of a blocking scheme, actually. The Broncos use zone blocking, that's a scheme. Other teams just say "okay, here's what guy you have to block, and here's where you have to keep him from getting". Obviously, that's simplified. But that's the general goal of most NFL offensive lineman -- know who to block and block them. You can't just plug in nobodies, because even if you have a scheme that tells them EXACTLY where to go, they still might not be strong enough or have good enough technique to make that block. That's the reason lineman go high -- they have good technique, can get there in time to make the block, and can make it. You can't just plug people in, unless they can make the blocks, and most UDFA can't.

    I mean, a rundown of the 11 best tackles in the NFL (opinion) provides them ALL as first rounders and many as high firsts. Willie Anderson, Jon Ogden, Orlando Pace, Walter Jones, Willie Roaf, Tra Thomas, Chris Samuels, Mike Williams, Tarik Glenn, Bryant McKinnie, Jordan Gross.. they were all former first rounders . Marvel Smith and Matt Light are good LT's and they went in the second. I think if you look at a team besides the Broncos that can run the ball, usually, they will have a lineup filled with solid players and a few high draft picks. What you're advocating is what the Browns have been trying to do.. fill in their holes with scrubs. The scheme they run works and has worked in plenty of places. It's the players that can't execute it because they aren't talented enough.
  15. GoofyBuckeye

    GoofyBuckeye Nutis Maximus

    tsteele, that's baloney.

    of Denver's starters at OL:

    Ben Hamilton - LG, 4th round draft pick in 2001
    George Foster -RT, 1st rounder in 2003 (ok, so I was wrong about the 1st rounder thing..I thought Foster was a second rounder)

    all of their reserves are pretty much 5 years or less.
    Foster replaced Brockermeyer after one year in the NFL
    Hamilton was a starter the whole season in his second year
    Right now, Dan Neil is hurt and a 4th year OG is starting now
    In 2002, Ephraim Salaam started the whole season in his third year
    2001, Lennie Friedman started all season as a 4th year low round pick

    Neil, Lepsis, and Nalen are the staples and have been there awhile

    Nalen was a 7th rounder
    Lepsis wasn't drafted and has 76 straight starts starting in his third year
    Neil was a third rounder.

    2 of the 5 have interchanged and were all young. Granted the main 3 have been there awhile but were all low picks and all played right away

    I totally agree, Savante, that the LT position is one of those positions that requires a true quality athlete, typically a high round selection. Verba obviously isn't doing the job there.

    my main point with the OL's is, if you have a scouting department with some clue (obviously not the Browns) you can get most of your line in the mid to late rounds and all could start quickly. The OL is just one of those positions where it's not so easy to seperate the top tier guys in the first 2 rounds from the guys that are lifetime reserves in the later rounds. You can get just as much success in round 4 than in round 2 with OL's, especially guards and centers.

    I'm all for an LT like D'Brickashaw Ferguson or Alex Barron...if it's the right fit.

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