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The Ohio State University Marching Band (TBDBITL)

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kujirakira said:
Back on page 23, but thank you for living up to that point about low information.

http://www.buckeyeplanet.com/forum/...ching-band-tbdbitl.17444/page-23#post-2496662
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That is interesting, though it was not part of this complaint (and as an information professional I don't consider ABC6 On Your Side and online article comments to be especially compelling/persuasive sources), but if you put your high-information pro-intellectualism mind to the task, you will find the thread that leads from that 2013 incident to Waters's firing, as he did not follow up on the agreed-upon Title IX training recommended at that time, and similarly he had not responded appropriately to an earlier incident of alleged harassment that year.
 
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So now we're going to play semantics.
Regardless of how you want to characterize it**, it doesnt change anything wrt claims of sexual harassment



**and neither the mother nor the reporter are lawyers, so its to be understood in the colloquial sense rather than strict legal sense
 
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kujirakira said:
So now we're going to play semantics.
Regardless of how you want to characterize it**, it doesnt change anything wrt claims of sexual harassment



**and neither the mother nor the reporter are lawyers, so its to be understood in the colloquial sense rather than strict legal sense
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I'm not trying to say something bad did not happen just because it was "just" sexual assualt and not rape. Just saying that sexual assault could be, and in most cases is, MUCH less than rape. If you were to compare it to physical harm, rape could be equated to murder while sexual assault could be anywhere from a shove to beating someone to a pulp. Maybe it's out there the severity of the assault, but dangerous to call it rape when for all we know it was a punk kid doing something slightly inappropriate.
 
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BayBuck said:
That is interesting, though it was not part of this complaint (and as an information professional I don't consider ABC6 On Your Side and online article comments to be especially compelling/persuasive sources), but if you put your high-information pro-intellectualism mind to the task, you will find the thread that leads from that 2013 incident to Waters's firing, as he did not follow up on the agreed-upon Title IX training recommended at that time, and similarly he had not responded appropriately to an earlier incident of alleged harassment that year.
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Actually I question that part of the report because various sources have confirmed that the training occurred. The report talks about how he didn't call back fast enough for the office's liking (and it's noteworthy the report is written by the person who thought such and seems to make things personal at various points). Given the mother's comments that she was not impressed with his sense of empathy, it strikes me that he probably rubbed a number of these people the wrong way. But his job isn't to be a psychiatrist and empathize with people -- I maintain that he should be judged by his actions (or lack thereof) whereas it seems a lot of the asides in the report boil down to character assassinations.

Regarding the source, unless you're claiming that ABC fabricated the interview and/or the mother is a fraud... then her words stand on their own. For me, this is all entering conspiracy theory territory.


UpNorth_Buckeye said:
I'm not trying to say something bad did not happen just because it was "just" sexual assualt and not rape. Just saying that sexual assault could be, and in most cases is, MUCH less than rape. If you were to compare it to physical harm, rape could be equated to murder while sexual assault could be anywhere from a shove to beating someone to a pulp. Maybe it's out there the severity of the assault, but dangerous to call it rape when for all we know it was a punk kid doing something slightly inappropriate.
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My initial impression was that they were using "sexual assault" in a PC way. Perhaps that assumption was wrong on my part and shows a personal bias, but I think it's clear that something traumatic happened to her. He was expelled. She quit the band. The family is still coping with it a year later. It was an egregious event.
Whether it's characterized as "sexual assault" or "rape", however, doesn't change the specifics of the argument as it pertains to the allegations of harassment / sexualized culture / Water's part.
 
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1. Was the party an official "band function" and did Waters attend the party? Did he post a notification of the party and encourage band members to attend? Was he asked to approve the party by band members?
2. According to the report the girl first went to the Columbus - not the campus - police, right?
3. After that experience she decided she didn't want to press charges - why?

Lots of things to presume here. She'd have to testify. Her name would be revealed. Defense would undoubtedly get into how much she had to drink. Police probably said as much that night, but again that's conjecture.

4. Mom then takes the situation to Waters - right?

What legal standing does Waters have in such a situation? Other than an obligation to take the matter to the school's enforcement office - none, and he did just that. He does suspend the student from TBDBITL. Under what universally applied university guideline is he required to do more?

5. Based on a complaint registered by THE MOM of one of 225 students, an investigation of the director is conducted?

Why wouldn't the investigators want to hear from at least 25 or 30 other women in the band?

6. As I look over the events cited in the university's statement - suggestive nick names, dirty lyrics, yelling and screaming at students - I hope they take the same close observations at basketball and football operations. Unless things have changed beyond my powers of imagination - all of those behaviors take place in locker rooms, practices and games. "OK team take a knee. Guys, now's your chance to show those mean people from that school up north, men with low standards of personal hygiene, men born of female canines, men who enjoy the sort of relationship with their mother that Oedipus Rex enjoyed with his. I want you to think about how you can, within the limits stated in the NCAA official rule book, play in such a way as to force those born to unwed mothers to induce fecal matter into their digestive system."

7. As for a culture of sexualization, can you imagine what goes on in the dorm rooms and houses occupied by buckeye football and basketball players?

Title IX, law, school HR policy... What matters in my eye is that a man's entire career and career opportunities have been trashed in an instant. No where do I see mention of his failures being pointed out in a performance review. Nowhere do I read where certain practices and "traditions" were listed and a date by which corrective action must take place established. If those documents exist, if he was given a face-to-face performance review - something which is also a part of official university policy - then Waters firing is credible. If not, it's a huge miscarriage of justice by a university anxious to sweep the story under a mat.
 
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1. According to the mother, it was an after hours party w/o any staff
2. According to the mother it was brought to Water's attention. It's not clear if that was before or after it was brought to Police' attention but seems to have happened in the same general time frame. Anyway Waters turned it over to the University "within 3 days". This part led to the offender was removed from the band and "permanently expelled" from the University (probably after their own internal process - which generally have lower standards than courts fwiw)
3. According to the interview because they wanted to move on with their lives... a notion I find hard to reconcile with her then filing a Title IX complaint and giving news interviews
4. There's no mention of Waters after the issue was initially brought to his attention... in which he kicked the offender out of the band and turned it over to the University. The next time he comes up is 8 months after the ahole was expelled when a complaint was filed
5. Yes.
Good question. They interviewed a total of 10 people, 4 of those were in the band. None seem to be any of the women that they alleged are victims of sexual harassment, who've since come out with their own personal letters.
6. Personally I hope they don't because this behavior is everywhere and everyone would have to be fired. I think one of the dynamics here, however, is that band is not segregated by sex... such as mens basketball and womens basketball being entirely separate organizations.
7. Or even the ones that have no connection to student athletes... none of the behavior cited in the report is outside the norm compared to their contemporary students
 
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A second investigation is now under way - using outside resources. My God, a regular Sodom and Gomorrah in that band facility.

I wonder what UC - Irvine, home of the fighting anteaters, had to pay out to cover Drakes previous firing. I love that he had to take the school's plane and fly to North Carolina to apologize and rehire a law professor he fired in similar fashion. Guy must have a two second fuse.

I also wonder if this incident came up in his interviews for the OSU job.
 
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I remember a show from some years ago where a marching band surrounded their color guard in the shape of a penis and forced them to all run out the top... wish I could find a recording of it somewhere.
I wonder what happened to them.
 
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