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- Thread starter ScriptOhio
- Start date
buckeyeboy
Still fortitudinous
What a disappointing World Cup. Despite our poor play in the first two games, we still had a chance to make it through by beating Ghana today. Of course, we lose. Scoring one offensive goal in three games is nothing short of pathetic.
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Not taking anything away from Ghana...they earned it. Quite frankly the people who should be most annoyed are the Czech fans, as they are ranked #2 in the world and only mustered one win and two losses.
I was under the impression we would regress some from the 2002 tournament, but I was surprised at how unimaginative and completely defensive our team was for much of the Cup.
I was under the impression we would regress some from the 2002 tournament, but I was surprised at how unimaginative and completely defensive our team was for much of the Cup.
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sandgk
Watson, Crick & A Twist
Japan 1 Brazil 0 (an 11 minute wonder)
For 11 minutes today the minnows nearly ate the whale.
In the 34th minute Japan was up 1-0 over Brazil.
In the 45th minute Brazil levels the score from Ronaldo rather large noggin.
They coast to a 4-1 win over the Land of the Rising Sun.
From reading the descriptions of todays games I have a lot of very, very good viewing tonight.
For 11 minutes today the minnows nearly ate the whale.
In the 34th minute Japan was up 1-0 over Brazil.
In the 45th minute Brazil levels the score from Ronaldo rather large noggin.
They coast to a 4-1 win over the Land of the Rising Sun.
From reading the descriptions of todays games I have a lot of very, very good viewing tonight.
Upvote
0
sandgk
Watson, Crick & A Twist
I'll have to look at the game tonight, but that data does not seem correct.
The Beeb (which generally does a pretty good job of tallying these things) has
USA vs Italy -
3 on target
7 off target
USA vs Ghana
4 on target
6 off target
USA vs Italy
On target 3
Off Target 6
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ScriptOhio
Everybody is somebody else's weirdo.
What's next?
After losing several veterans, U.S.' future murky
NUREMBERG, Germany -- Now what?
The U.S. will have a difficult time replacing a group of quality veterans in 2010, including Brian McBride.
Friedemann Vogel/Getty Images
The U.S. sent the most talented team in its history to the World Cup, and it barely managed a single point. We can sit here and argue that the Americans drew perhaps the toughest competition it has ever faced, but -- except for one match -- the simple fact is that the U.S. didn't come to play.
Talent means nothing if you can't put together a team effort.
So let's look to the future while the body is still warm. We've probably seen the last of veterans Kasey Keller, Eddie Lewis, Claudio Reyna, Brian McBride and Eddie Pope. Those are all big cleats to fill.
U.S. Soccer has a blueprint to be a legitimate contender by the next World Cup in South Africa, a plan called "Project 2010." Are the players at the U.S.' disposal good enough? Or is it all a pipe dream?
Here's what the future may hold...
Coach: U.S. Soccer president Sunil Gulati said after Thursday's crushing 2-1 loss to Ghana that he isn't ready to make a decision on Bruce Arena. But in all likelihood, we may have seen the last of Bruce Almighty. Arena has already enjoyed a tenure longer than most national team coaches can even dream of. And after this letdown, a change is likely in order. There are rumors the U.S. could eventually snag German national team coach Jürgen Klinsmann, who is a full-time resident of Southern California. But don't be surprised if a bigger name enters the mix, such as Dutch legend Guus Hiddink (who will take over the Russian national team after his tenure at this year's World Cup with Australia).
Goalkeeper: Another question mark. Could Keller really play in his fifth World Cup at age 40, as he has suggested? Don't bet on it. That leaves No. 2 Marcus Hahnemann, who would be 37 and will still likely have some game left. He'll certainly be tested in the near future, as his club team, Reading, will play in the English Premier League next season for the first time in its history.
Behind "Red Bird" is Tim Howard, who will be 31 in 2010. Manchester United did Howard a huge favor by loaning him out to Everton for this coming season, which means he'll no longer be rotting on the bench and will have a huge opportunity to cement himself as a regular keeper in England. A young player to keep an eye on is Chivas USA's Brad Guzan, a 21-year-old who showed some promise in his rookie season last year.
Oguchi Onyewu will be the leader of a solid U.S. defense in 2010.
Stu Forster/Getty Images
Defense: This is one area where the U.S. is in fairly good shape. Oguchi Onyewu's first World Cup was a success -- "Gooch" was one of the only Americans who performed well in all three matches. Just 24, he's likely to be the anchor of the team for years to come. Expect to see Gooch eventually move from Belgium to a big-time European league, where he'll gain valuable experience.
Steve Cherundolo and Carlos Bocanegra will both be 31 and should still be able to contribute. Cory Gibbs will likely crack the national team for good as well. Other names to toss into the mix are 20-year-old Jonathan Spector, who will be getting some minutes in England next season at West Ham United, and 22-year-old Heath Pearce, an intriguing prospect who's currently playing in Denmark.
Midfield: We may have seen a sign of things to come when Reyna handed the captain's armband to Landon Donovan as he came off the field in the 40th minute on Thursday. For better or for worse, Donovan is the most visible face of U.S. soccer, and he'll have more responsibility than ever in the coming years. The biggest challenge now is for Donovan to kick his reputation for disappearing in the most crucial of games. Donovan has to learn to be a leader, and that starts now, as the team boards its flight back home with its tail between its legs.
Donovan's fellow alum of the '99 U.S. Under-17 squad, DaMarcus Beasley, took three steps back after his step forward on the international scene. Despite his assist to Clint Dempsey on Thursday, Beasley played perhaps the worst three-game stretch of his career. Beaz will have a long four years thinking about what went wrong. Dempsey, on the other hand, stepped into the spotlight with aplomb. He'll be remembered as the only American to score at the '06 Cup, which may be a dubious distinction. Dempsey will be only 27 in '10, and could also become one of the faces of U.S. soccer. Winger Bobby Convey, another of the infamous '99 Under-17 quartet, will also be expected to become a star.
Attack: This is where things get cloudy for the U.S. With McBride surely playing in his final Cup, the Americans officially have no aerial threat. Brian Ching is the only thing even close; he's 6-foot-1 with decent jumping ability. He'll 32 in '10, but he has yet to impress. The only pure striker the U.S. currently has is Eddie Johnson, who will be depended on to carry the U.S. attack in the years to come. His Cup debut was fairly solid, and he's a fan favorite. With Europe calling, don't expect him to stick around MLS for too long. His partner in attack in 2010 could be the Chicago Fire's Chris Rolfe, who is showing potential and would be only 27.
We can't talk about the future of U.S. soccer without mentioning Freddy Adu. We're still awaiting the arrival of the most overhyped player in American history. Adu will be 21 when the next World Cup rolls around, and the next four years of his development are crucial. He's finally a regular starter at D.C. United and will get the opportunities he needs to develop his game. His lack of patience, however, is working against him. Adu needs to learn he's not going to become a superstar overnight -- an attitude that earned him a snub from Arena for this World Cup. Well, that and the fact that he just isn't ready yet.
The work needs to begin now for the U.S. If anything, the Americans learned they need to work harder to compete with the world's best. Four years and counting to South Africa.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/writers/jonah_freedman/06/22/whats.next/1.html
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After losing several veterans, U.S.' future murky
NUREMBERG, Germany -- Now what?
The U.S. will have a difficult time replacing a group of quality veterans in 2010, including Brian McBride.
Friedemann Vogel/Getty Images
The U.S. sent the most talented team in its history to the World Cup, and it barely managed a single point. We can sit here and argue that the Americans drew perhaps the toughest competition it has ever faced, but -- except for one match -- the simple fact is that the U.S. didn't come to play.
Talent means nothing if you can't put together a team effort.
So let's look to the future while the body is still warm. We've probably seen the last of veterans Kasey Keller, Eddie Lewis, Claudio Reyna, Brian McBride and Eddie Pope. Those are all big cleats to fill.
U.S. Soccer has a blueprint to be a legitimate contender by the next World Cup in South Africa, a plan called "Project 2010." Are the players at the U.S.' disposal good enough? Or is it all a pipe dream?
Here's what the future may hold...
Coach: U.S. Soccer president Sunil Gulati said after Thursday's crushing 2-1 loss to Ghana that he isn't ready to make a decision on Bruce Arena. But in all likelihood, we may have seen the last of Bruce Almighty. Arena has already enjoyed a tenure longer than most national team coaches can even dream of. And after this letdown, a change is likely in order. There are rumors the U.S. could eventually snag German national team coach Jürgen Klinsmann, who is a full-time resident of Southern California. But don't be surprised if a bigger name enters the mix, such as Dutch legend Guus Hiddink (who will take over the Russian national team after his tenure at this year's World Cup with Australia).
Goalkeeper: Another question mark. Could Keller really play in his fifth World Cup at age 40, as he has suggested? Don't bet on it. That leaves No. 2 Marcus Hahnemann, who would be 37 and will still likely have some game left. He'll certainly be tested in the near future, as his club team, Reading, will play in the English Premier League next season for the first time in its history.
Behind "Red Bird" is Tim Howard, who will be 31 in 2010. Manchester United did Howard a huge favor by loaning him out to Everton for this coming season, which means he'll no longer be rotting on the bench and will have a huge opportunity to cement himself as a regular keeper in England. A young player to keep an eye on is Chivas USA's Brad Guzan, a 21-year-old who showed some promise in his rookie season last year.
Oguchi Onyewu will be the leader of a solid U.S. defense in 2010.
Stu Forster/Getty Images
Defense: This is one area where the U.S. is in fairly good shape. Oguchi Onyewu's first World Cup was a success -- "Gooch" was one of the only Americans who performed well in all three matches. Just 24, he's likely to be the anchor of the team for years to come. Expect to see Gooch eventually move from Belgium to a big-time European league, where he'll gain valuable experience.
Steve Cherundolo and Carlos Bocanegra will both be 31 and should still be able to contribute. Cory Gibbs will likely crack the national team for good as well. Other names to toss into the mix are 20-year-old Jonathan Spector, who will be getting some minutes in England next season at West Ham United, and 22-year-old Heath Pearce, an intriguing prospect who's currently playing in Denmark.
Midfield: We may have seen a sign of things to come when Reyna handed the captain's armband to Landon Donovan as he came off the field in the 40th minute on Thursday. For better or for worse, Donovan is the most visible face of U.S. soccer, and he'll have more responsibility than ever in the coming years. The biggest challenge now is for Donovan to kick his reputation for disappearing in the most crucial of games. Donovan has to learn to be a leader, and that starts now, as the team boards its flight back home with its tail between its legs.
Donovan's fellow alum of the '99 U.S. Under-17 squad, DaMarcus Beasley, took three steps back after his step forward on the international scene. Despite his assist to Clint Dempsey on Thursday, Beasley played perhaps the worst three-game stretch of his career. Beaz will have a long four years thinking about what went wrong. Dempsey, on the other hand, stepped into the spotlight with aplomb. He'll be remembered as the only American to score at the '06 Cup, which may be a dubious distinction. Dempsey will be only 27 in '10, and could also become one of the faces of U.S. soccer. Winger Bobby Convey, another of the infamous '99 Under-17 quartet, will also be expected to become a star.
Attack: This is where things get cloudy for the U.S. With McBride surely playing in his final Cup, the Americans officially have no aerial threat. Brian Ching is the only thing even close; he's 6-foot-1 with decent jumping ability. He'll 32 in '10, but he has yet to impress. The only pure striker the U.S. currently has is Eddie Johnson, who will be depended on to carry the U.S. attack in the years to come. His Cup debut was fairly solid, and he's a fan favorite. With Europe calling, don't expect him to stick around MLS for too long. His partner in attack in 2010 could be the Chicago Fire's Chris Rolfe, who is showing potential and would be only 27.
We can't talk about the future of U.S. soccer without mentioning Freddy Adu. We're still awaiting the arrival of the most overhyped player in American history. Adu will be 21 when the next World Cup rolls around, and the next four years of his development are crucial. He's finally a regular starter at D.C. United and will get the opportunities he needs to develop his game. His lack of patience, however, is working against him. Adu needs to learn he's not going to become a superstar overnight -- an attitude that earned him a snub from Arena for this World Cup. Well, that and the fact that he just isn't ready yet.
The work needs to begin now for the U.S. If anything, the Americans learned they need to work harder to compete with the world's best. Four years and counting to South Africa.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/writers/jonah_freedman/06/22/whats.next/1.html
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Buckeye513
Stable Genius
O_O Yes, please.
Out of those two, Klinsmann would be more likely to take the job, though Hiddink is the better coach.
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Klinsmann...perfect, we can be worse at defending that we are even now, and without the forward players he has at his disposal in Germany. Horrible fit...I like Hiddink better.
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Buckeye513
Stable Genius
Germany weren't nearly as poor defensively against Poland or Ecuador as they were against Costa Rica. And the only reason they struggled against the Ticos is because Metzelder and Mertsacker are painfully immobile, which pretty much killed the offside trap they were trying to pull off.
I don't think Klinsmann would be that bad of a fit. Atleast with him we'd finally see some attacking soccer.
What do you mean had the chance? He just turned 17, and he plays in the MLS, which is rapidly slowing down his development. The quicker he hops on the plane to Europe, the quicker he'll emerge into the phenom that the U.S. media made him out to be 3 years ago.
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sandgk
Watson, Crick & A Twist
Discussing Adu (and sparky's glasss half full of aduade.
Therein lies the real issue though.
Home-grown & home-developed players are what are in short supply.
Adu merely highlights the same more completely than anyone else.
Home-grown, OK, home-developed, not so true. This flaw in the system is true up to through the college ranks. In fact that argument could go all the way through to the full pro ranks.
For instance, you could argue that Donovan regressed by coming back to the MLS.
How do other countries handle this same kind of issue?
Some teams do really well at the international level having the bulk of their players developed overseas - African teams are a classic case in point. Some countries do well developing their players and then exporting them around the world. Brazil would be an excellent example of that approach - 20 of 23 2006 squad players come from the European leagues.
The USA team and soccer structure has to decide on a clear course of action and implement it. I have said before, and will state again my belief that there is too much reliance still on the collegiate routes for player development. Laudable though that approach is, it misses the most important window of opportunity for pitting potentially great players against one another, so that they may competitively hone each other's skills. And that window of opportunity begins at 14 - 15 years old. That is important, for last I checked that age group is largely irrelevant to NCAA athletics.
Sadly, there seems to be an almost obstinate refusal on the part of the US Soccer Federation to understand and address these issues.
Till they do, the best you can hope for is to have a select few players, at too old an age, earn the right to hone those skills in Europe. But consider what you might have had if the MLS / College heirarchy were not so dominant in dictating the team development. Adu, to cite the most hyped example, at 17 and change developed to the point where he is the most attractive option to take his place on the pitch for the full national side.
You are correct Adu's best shot at getting the most out of his talent is to go to the Serie A or Premiership and earn his way onto the pitch. Really, he would have been best served by getting into a Man U development squad when he was fourteen or fifteen (which was an option he and his family had open to them). He has in summary lost two years of chances to compete against the most skilled players.
Therein lies the real issue though.
Home-grown & home-developed players are what are in short supply.
Adu merely highlights the same more completely than anyone else.
Home-grown, OK, home-developed, not so true. This flaw in the system is true up to through the college ranks. In fact that argument could go all the way through to the full pro ranks.
For instance, you could argue that Donovan regressed by coming back to the MLS.
How do other countries handle this same kind of issue?
Some teams do really well at the international level having the bulk of their players developed overseas - African teams are a classic case in point. Some countries do well developing their players and then exporting them around the world. Brazil would be an excellent example of that approach - 20 of 23 2006 squad players come from the European leagues.
The USA team and soccer structure has to decide on a clear course of action and implement it. I have said before, and will state again my belief that there is too much reliance still on the collegiate routes for player development. Laudable though that approach is, it misses the most important window of opportunity for pitting potentially great players against one another, so that they may competitively hone each other's skills. And that window of opportunity begins at 14 - 15 years old. That is important, for last I checked that age group is largely irrelevant to NCAA athletics.
Sadly, there seems to be an almost obstinate refusal on the part of the US Soccer Federation to understand and address these issues.
Till they do, the best you can hope for is to have a select few players, at too old an age, earn the right to hone those skills in Europe. But consider what you might have had if the MLS / College heirarchy were not so dominant in dictating the team development. Adu, to cite the most hyped example, at 17 and change developed to the point where he is the most attractive option to take his place on the pitch for the full national side.
Upvote
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sandgk
Watson, Crick & A Twist
Well now that we have sung the US team's woes, (and who less qualified than Sports Illustrated to help us mire in our misery), let us also consider what good things actually can come in the future.
First lets deal with the case of Adu.
What is the worst case (should Adu continue his development in positive surroundings), he would be in the squad at age 21 in time for the next World Cup. Whatever his sins in the eyes of Arena, at some point this is a kid to whom you have to give the ball, and the higher the level of competition the better.
What to do to replace Reyna? It all seems bleak now to those who remember that Claudio is the most capped American player. But, remember this, nature abhors a vacuum. Should Reyna retire, and I believe he should, then there will be other, currently unsung, players who will fill the void. In fact, they may prove to be an improvement.
Consider --
Reyna is looked upon by many as a gold standard for the American team. Most caps, longest, most productive career. There is however a downside. Most injury prone, most often when in midfield during competitive matches associated not with a winning effort. He is one of those players around which things gel, but sometimes gelling is not a good thing. Sometimes, instead you need more creativity, fluidity, speed and striking power. These are not always things that Reyna brought in bushels.
First lets deal with the case of Adu.
What is the worst case (should Adu continue his development in positive surroundings), he would be in the squad at age 21 in time for the next World Cup. Whatever his sins in the eyes of Arena, at some point this is a kid to whom you have to give the ball, and the higher the level of competition the better.
What to do to replace Reyna? It all seems bleak now to those who remember that Claudio is the most capped American player. But, remember this, nature abhors a vacuum. Should Reyna retire, and I believe he should, then there will be other, currently unsung, players who will fill the void. In fact, they may prove to be an improvement.
Consider --
Reyna is looked upon by many as a gold standard for the American team. Most caps, longest, most productive career. There is however a downside. Most injury prone, most often when in midfield during competitive matches associated not with a winning effort. He is one of those players around which things gel, but sometimes gelling is not a good thing. Sometimes, instead you need more creativity, fluidity, speed and striking power. These are not always things that Reyna brought in bushels.
Upvote
0
I think this team will miss McBride more than Reyna, Keller, or any other players that are departing. Like the above article stated, the only that compares to what he brings to the table is Brian Ching, and he is no youngster, and is very much a poor man's version of McBride.
As far as the whole MLS thing goes... I admire the ambition that they have to keep American talent at home and make the league legitimate. I think it would be great if they could elevate the league to the point were there would be enough talent to be able to get the most developmentally out of top players. Of course, if you want to try to do that, you can't be sending your best players overseas. Conversely, if you want to get the most out of your top players right now, you can't have them playing in the MLS. I'd like to see MLS be as beneficial an experience as Serie A or the Premiership or the Bundesliga, but I doubt it will ever occur, and I don't think the effort should be made at the expense of preparation for the World Cup.
As far as the whole MLS thing goes... I admire the ambition that they have to keep American talent at home and make the league legitimate. I think it would be great if they could elevate the league to the point were there would be enough talent to be able to get the most developmentally out of top players. Of course, if you want to try to do that, you can't be sending your best players overseas. Conversely, if you want to get the most out of your top players right now, you can't have them playing in the MLS. I'd like to see MLS be as beneficial an experience as Serie A or the Premiership or the Bundesliga, but I doubt it will ever occur, and I don't think the effort should be made at the expense of preparation for the World Cup.
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In an interview today, Adu said that he plans to head to Europe soon. But there's always the possibility that Adu will play for the country where he was born. For those that don't recall, he's from a country in Africa that advanced today.
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sandgk
Watson, Crick & A Twist
Just finished my nightly DVR duty and today was one of drama filled matches.
US vs Ghana lived up to its billing - even if the result stuck in your craw. Too damned bad that the ref mucked the whole thing up from the get-go. You would think Markus "I am a Dentist" Merk was no countryman of Beckenbauer's. The PK award was an absolute travesty - and really there has to be some kind of improvement to the officiating in these high level matches - could they learn a thing or two from American Football in that regard? (After all, with another umpire view from behind the goal there is a clearer opinion that the referee can take into consideration).
Australia vs Croatia shows what can happen when the second place in the group remains in contention. I've been impressed with the Aussie's grit this year and they showed plenty of it tonight - holding on despite some calls that went badly against them. And, despite having been down, twice in the match.
Of the four games, by far and away the best was the Brazil vs Japan match. What more could you ask for. A referee that - for the most part - stayed completely out of the way of the flow of the game, allowing advantage to play out whenever possible (And this fellow is French?). A goal, completely against the flow of play that puts the underdogs on top (for 11 minutes). Yet, there is more. Suddenly we had all the stars coming out tonight.
Hell, even the Fat Man Ronaldo was on song. He ties for 2nd place, then ties for 1st place on the list of those with most WC goals, adding to his tally of WC games in which he scores more than one goal.
Ronaldinho actually looked liked the best player in the world for long stretches. He took total control of the midfield for long periods and set up chance after chance for Brazil. Only the inspired goalkeeping in the Japan net kept them in the game early. And then the goals came, and they kept on coming. Robinho had in my view a stellar performance, unselfish and highly productive. Several others sparkled.
All the while, the boys in blue gamely tried to keep pace with their more skilled Latin betters. I give a huge amount of credit to Japan. They could have settled for a nasty defensive performance. But, seemingly inspired by the open and flowing style Brazil showed (in full for the first time this cup) Japan was content only with going for goal. And going there in style.
And I sat back and thoroughly enjoyed the game that resulted.
EDIT - jlb _ admit I am an admirer of McBride, but I do not entirely agree with the terse verdict that once he is gone all is done in the air. This is only vitally important if you depend on the long ball going forward. For set pieces and corners you can get the aerial threat with a large center-back. It depends on the style you wish to play. Tie yourself to the Euro-style and yes McBride's departure creates a gaping void. Exhibit some flexibility, imagination and creativity and it may simply shift the team style.
US vs Ghana lived up to its billing - even if the result stuck in your craw. Too damned bad that the ref mucked the whole thing up from the get-go. You would think Markus "I am a Dentist" Merk was no countryman of Beckenbauer's. The PK award was an absolute travesty - and really there has to be some kind of improvement to the officiating in these high level matches - could they learn a thing or two from American Football in that regard? (After all, with another umpire view from behind the goal there is a clearer opinion that the referee can take into consideration).
Australia vs Croatia shows what can happen when the second place in the group remains in contention. I've been impressed with the Aussie's grit this year and they showed plenty of it tonight - holding on despite some calls that went badly against them. And, despite having been down, twice in the match.
Of the four games, by far and away the best was the Brazil vs Japan match. What more could you ask for. A referee that - for the most part - stayed completely out of the way of the flow of the game, allowing advantage to play out whenever possible (And this fellow is French?). A goal, completely against the flow of play that puts the underdogs on top (for 11 minutes). Yet, there is more. Suddenly we had all the stars coming out tonight.
Hell, even the Fat Man Ronaldo was on song. He ties for 2nd place, then ties for 1st place on the list of those with most WC goals, adding to his tally of WC games in which he scores more than one goal.
Ronaldinho actually looked liked the best player in the world for long stretches. He took total control of the midfield for long periods and set up chance after chance for Brazil. Only the inspired goalkeeping in the Japan net kept them in the game early. And then the goals came, and they kept on coming. Robinho had in my view a stellar performance, unselfish and highly productive. Several others sparkled.
All the while, the boys in blue gamely tried to keep pace with their more skilled Latin betters. I give a huge amount of credit to Japan. They could have settled for a nasty defensive performance. But, seemingly inspired by the open and flowing style Brazil showed (in full for the first time this cup) Japan was content only with going for goal. And going there in style.
And I sat back and thoroughly enjoyed the game that resulted.
EDIT - jlb _ admit I am an admirer of McBride, but I do not entirely agree with the terse verdict that once he is gone all is done in the air. This is only vitally important if you depend on the long ball going forward. For set pieces and corners you can get the aerial threat with a large center-back. It depends on the style you wish to play. Tie yourself to the Euro-style and yes McBride's departure creates a gaping void. Exhibit some flexibility, imagination and creativity and it may simply shift the team style.
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