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10 questions that need answered

Discussion in 'Buckeye Football' started by osubartender23, Oct 10, 2004.

  1. osubartender23

    osubartender23 Purple Nurple King

    Just looking for peoples opinions on these things

    1. How come we never make any adjustments defensively? Other teams are able to adjust thier blocking schemes and routes to the way our defense plays in the first half, but we are never able to counter those adjustments.

    2. How can Tressel justify sitting Roy Hall because "lack of production", but at the same time remain solid behind starting Zwick and Ross and many other players who just seem to be doing the bare minimum to get by?

    3. How come we can run a play I.E.(the statue of liberty play to Pittman) get a huge gain out of it, and then never even attempt to run it again?

    4. With the same line of thinking for #3, How come we run many plays that just arent working, but we keep trying to plug away at them anyway, even though the other team pretty much has stopping them down pat?

    5. How come other teams are able to win with youth and improve, but we arent able to?

    6. In Tressel's 4 years here, we have not improved yet from the beginning of one season to the end. Even during the NC year we seemed to regress as the year went on. How come that is happening?

    7. Why isnt JT willing to adapt his style of play, even after teams have started figuring ways to stop us, and exploit our strengths?

    8. Why are we allowed to have a great 1-AA coaching staff, but only an average 1A one?

    9. Why are people called whiners and bitches because they question JT's style and disagree with it? Is he not beyond reproach, especially since he doesnt seem to be able to make necessary changes?

    10. Lastly, Tressel said that he tailors his system to his players when he got hired, so exactly when is this tailoring going to be done? These are now HIS players, the ones that he hand selected to run his system and we just dont seem to be able to do it, so what gives?
     
  2. OSU5NC

    OSU5NC Newbie

    We did improve in 2001 for sure. 2003 is a maybe.. but we looked the best we had all year in that bowl game at the end. This year is definite regression though, we have looked worse and worse each game.
     
  3. ScarletArrow

    ScarletArrow I'm wearing Gold Pants

    1 - Less effective D-line play renders most adjustments ineffective.

    2 - There is more depth at this position, so JT has the luxury of being a little more picky.

    3 - It's a gimmick play - you can only get one may two uses a year out of it.

    4 - There are certain basic running plays all teams must be able to execute (e.g. counter, sweeps, et. al.). We cannot - but JT is committed to finding a way to make it work.

    5 - We want to point the blame at coaching, but it could be that these guys just might not be that good. But if that's the case, then our coaching takes the blame again for bad recruiting. IMO that we need just a little more time. How much? I don't know, but the first 2 game losing streak in JT's OSU career isn't reason enough to give up hope on the season.

    6 - I think it's more difficult than we realize to compete in the Big Ten; and I don't think we suffer any more attrition than any other team. Coop had this same problem - always peaking against a midseason blowout of PSU and then tanking in the last two games. I'm always amazed at how fresh our troops look in the bowl game - I think they just wear down physically as the season progresses.

    7 - JT's philosophy is that talent, desire, and execution transcends style of play. He will address the former before he ever changes the latter.

    8 - Other than Bollman, who is your gripe against?

    9 - B/c these were the same people who were praising his style 2 years ago. No one denies the obvious - the offense is bad - but stay behind our man and let JT prove himself when the going gets tough.

    10 - There will always be a commitment by JT to certain philosophical principles on offense. If you're expecting JT to swing from the spread, to the option, to the power running game from season to season, or game to game - it's never going to happen. There is a balance between tailoring the offense to the players, and the players becoming what JT is coaching them to be.
     
  4. martinss01

    martinss01 blissfully stupid

    i agree, that is a serious concern i share as well. i think the first thing we need to do is get snyder up in the booth and off the sidelines because he is obviously missing things.

    hall has been playing and getting balls. some he catches and some he doesn't. he is the 3rd leading receiver at present in grabs... so im not sure where that complaint is coming from. personally i really like zwick. he's a tough kid with a lot of drive to win and a great arm. sometimes he does really smart things, sometimes he doesn't. he's getting better, but its coming slowely. the tailback situation is a different animal. our o-line has seen better days and the same can be said for the tailbacks. i really like pittman. i think he shows some signs of being very good. ross had a couple of decent runs when there were actually holes as well.

    because unlike our defense, a good one like wiscy adjusts rapidly and you can only run a play like that on them once. next time you try you will convert for a 6 yrd loss.

    you mean like tried and true tOSU plays along the lines of shotgun and 5 receivers? which we ran the majority of the game... yeah.. agreeing with ya there! :roll2:

    3 deep balls wide open just flat out missed. each was 6 points.
    1 turnover on a very good drive inside the wiscy 20. 3 points easy, very possible missed 6.
    1 turnover inside our own 20. an easy 6 for them.
    2 horrible calls on wiscy fumbles. one deep in our territory. one deep in theirs. one would have likely put points up for us, the other would have removed points for them.


    while i would never blame the officials for the loss of a game. they were factors that simply didn't help any. we did well to not get blown out against a team like wiscy with as many mistakes we made. most importantly, with as many opportunities we didn't take advantage of. but then, thats what happens when you are young.

    i agree and disagree. the previous years were krenzel teams. now, before i get flamed i liked the guy. but he was NOT a talented qb. we had a bad o-line, average at best tailbacks, and a very over rated qb. while krenzel was a great field general, there wasn't much talent in the arm category.

    i saw several things i liked. zwick sticking it out while getting pounded on. wr's getting open downfield even if they weren't getting the ball. the offensive line opened like... 4 or 5 holes on run plays!! :eek: spurratic yet good man on man coverage from our cb's! it wasn't consistant enough for my likings. but they might just have the talent once they get some time under their belt. the d-line made a difference in the first half. wiscy offense adjusted and ours didn't. but they might just have the skills needed.

    i would have agreed with you last week but not this week. i think he did well with the offense this week against one of the top rated defenses in the country. we had more drives in this game than we have in the previous 3 combined! which means a lot when you consider the defense we were going against.

    ..... moving right along..

    you can't complain about the play calling without taking the available skill of the players into account. i think tressel has been slow to change. he has been very reluctant to let zwick loose. but then, he has thrown 5 picks... he's also a VERY young qb operating with a below average line and a team that can't run to save its life. generally qb's who operate in those offenses have very short careers. often ending in hospital stays...

    clarrett teams aside, wiscy was argueably the best offensive showing we have seen in 3 years. tell me that isn't the scariest thing you have ever heard :wink:. there isn't a single part of their play that doesn't need ALOT of work from tackling to play calling. which if you recall tressel has said that in every interview he has had all season. they are getting better, but it is taking a lot more time than i would like.
     
  5. Sloopy45

    Sloopy45 Pimp Minister Sinister

    osubartender23: 1. How come we never make any adjustments defensively? Other teams are able to adjust thier blocking schemes and routes to the way our defense plays in the first half, but we are never able to counter those adjustments.

    Simple. We have a new defensive coordinator who's getting his feet wet. Whether he should be there or not is up for debate (I say its too soon), but the fact remains, he is there and that's the reason.

    2. How can Tressel justify sitting Roy Hall because "lack of production", but at the same time remain solid behind starting Zwick and Ross and many other players who just seem to be doing the bare minimum to get by?

    You're comparing apples to oranges. The QB and TB position are different animals than any other position on the field. Tressel can bench Roy Hall and have any one of a number of big time talents to step into his place: Ginn, Childress, Holmes, etc. If Tress benches Ross, who is he putting in that's better? Hall? He's the same as Ross. A 180 lb. true freshman in Pittman? He's not ready.

    And why in the world would he bench Zwick? He's a first year starting QB who's playing behind an OL with 3 first timers, and a running game that can't gain a yard. There are growing pains with every QB: Peyton Manning wasn't a Heisman Candidate as a frosh with the School You Can't Spell Citrus Without (U.T.), and other than Vick, I dare you to find me a first year underclassman QB who didn't take time to develop. Not to mention that Zwick has to carry ALL the load this year.

    3. How come we can run a play I.E.(the statue of liberty play to Pittman) get a huge gain out of it, and then never even attempt to run it again?

    "The Statue of Liberty" is a gimmick play. It works once a game, is sniffed out, and then useless for the rest of the game. If you could repeatedly go to it, it would be done.

    4. With the same line of thinking for #3, How come we run many plays that just arent working, but we keep trying to plug away at them anyway, even though the other team pretty much has stopping them down pat?

    Tressel runs a base offense and a base D with the theory that we don't have to do anything gimmicky or special. We got out on the field, play vanilla, and the talent at Ohio State will eventually overwhelm the other team by the time the game clock runs out. He has a system in place that doesn't work to well with young players (see: '01 and '04), but if he changes it, he breaks the continuity of "the system" and has to teach the kids a new system the next year. The hope here is that by the time the kids are Juniors and Seniors, they've spent years in the same system, can write a book on "TressellBall," and are ready to win National Titles when its a Senior-laden class.

    5. How come other teams are able to win with youth and improve, but we arent able to?

    See: above. Tressell's system requires patience, experience, and heart. He will not try to flood the opposing team with big plays and long strikes (those will sometime give a young team a win they otherwise wouldn't have gotten). When the kids don't have the experience of playing in pressure situations, you see what the result has been the last two weeks.

    6. In Tressel's 4 years here, we have not improved yet from the beginning of one season to the end. Even during the NC year we seemed to regress as the year went on. How come that is happening?

    Huh? We improved a lot in Tressell's first season. So much so that we beat scUM in Ann Arbor for the first time in fourteen years, and a much maligned Bellisari threw for an OSU Bowl record 350 yards in his last game. And as far as '02 and '03 are concerned, that's the case for every team once it gets to conference play. Each player gets dinged up a little more with each game. You expect OSU to dominate scUM in the 3rd week in November the same way it dominates Kent State in late August???

    7. Why isnt JT willing to adapt his style of play, even after teams have started figuring ways to stop us, and exploit our strengths?

    How has Tressell not adapted his style of play? He's a run first coach, and last time I checked, we were more in the shotgun the last two games than the I. He's adjusting, but neither is working.

    8. Why are we allowed to have a great 1-AA coaching staff, but only an average 1A one?

    We had the best coaching staff in the Nation the last three years. When you win a National Championship, your staff gets raided and you need to find replacements. To this point, the coaching staff is still learning, but it is far from an "average" 1A staff. In fact, its bad compared with recent years, but its a lot better than what's out there. How many coaching staffs do you think are out there that're better than ours?

    9. Why are people called whiners and bitches because they question JT's style and disagree with it? Is he not beyond reproach, especially since he doesnt seem to be able to make necessary changes?

    Simple. The Head Coach at the Ohio State University is a highly respected, loved, and most important: POWERFUL man. He won the first National Championship here in 34 years after countless teases and heartbreaks. That man is going to have his supporters, and avid supporters at that.

    And if you don't believe me as to how important and powerful that position is, you might want to look at another Head Coach here named Wayne Woodrow Hayes. When he passed away, there were Heads of State, Senators, Governors, Dali-Lamas, Sultans, Grand Pubas, and three men you might have heard of (Richard Nixon, Gerald Ford, and George Bush) at his funeral. There aren't many sports figures who would draw that crowd to their funeral.

    10. Lastly, Tressel said that he tailors his system to his players when he got hired, so exactly when is this tailoring going to be done? These are now HIS players, the ones that he hand selected to run his system and we just dont seem to be able to do it, so what gives?

    They are young players. They're not ready to win. Its never the system, its the players. When we had a team loaded with Juniors and Seniors, Tressell's system worked to a tee (go check out the trophies in the WHAC). But, maybe these players now fit the system, but aren't experienced enough to execute it right now.
     
  6. Brutus1

    Brutus1 Don't be penurious, donate to the BP Spring Dr.

    Since the first hald against Marshall, when was the last time JZ made a good pass downfield? The Roy Hall catch against NW was just a good catch by him. JZ has shown zero improvement in his 5 games. He has had guys open plenty of times, but can't hit them when he has to. He's had opportunities when he had some time but he can't do it . How long before we expect some improvement ?
     
  7. osubartender23

    osubartender23 Purple Nurple King

    Scarlet Arrow "other then bollman who is your gripe against?"

    Joe Daniels, he has a great coaching past(Dan Marino was his pupil) but since he has been here exactly
    which QB's have shown great improvement? He gets a pass for Bellisari, Krenzel and Mcmullen, neither of
    them were able to really show any great improvements and actually last year Krenzel seemed like he had taken
    a step back a little bit while he was trying to do too much by himself. Zwick , still too early to really tell
    but after 5 games we should be able to see steady improvements in all facets of his game and the only one
    that I think he is really improving greatly on is his lack of throwing Int's, but that has been at the cost
    of his accuracy. He is afraid to thread a needle like he was doing the first 2 week, to complete a pass for
    fear of getting it picked off.

    Dick Tressel, no one can argue with his experience but doesnt it seem odd that Tressel couldnt find anybody better
    suited to be a RB coach except someone in his own family?!?!?! Granted its too early to tell on D.Tressel wheter
    he is a good RB's coach or not, it just kind of rubs me the wrong way that he was hired in the beginning instead of
    an outsider who could bring a new viewpoint and life to the program, much like Hazel has done for the special
    teams.

    Martinss01-In response to your response for #2

    My gripe is that Roy Hall was passed on the depth chart by Ginn. Ginn to date on offense has done absolutely
    nothing and Hall didnt deserve to drop all the way down to #4. The only thing I really think Zwick is getting
    better at is not throwing Int's and like I said earlier he isnt nearly as aggressive or accurate now as he was
    the first two games of the year because of his desire to cut down on mistakes.

    Sloopy45-"If Tress benches Ross, who is he putting in thats better"

    Well the fact that Pittman has shown he is able to contribute atleast as much as Ross if not more then Ross,
    makes me want to say that he would be better off starting. He is shiftier then Ross, and is able to bring an
    explosiveness to the team that Ross just doesnt seem to have.

    "I dare you to find me a first year underclassman QB who didn't take time to develop."

    Chad Henne TSUN. Not only is he a TRUE Freshman, he is improving in every single game that he has played.
    Sure Zwick is an underclassmen but he isnt a Freshman anymore, this is his 3rd year in the system. Exactly
    how long should it take for a decent QB to be able to learn and run a system effectively?

    "Huh? We improved alot in Tressell's first season. So much so that we beat scUM in Ann Arbor for the first time
    in fourteen years, and a much maligned Bellisari threw for an OSU bowl record 350 yeards in his last game."

    You mean that same scUM game where we would have LOST had the receiver not dropped a wide open pass in his own
    end zone? scUM made great adjustments that game and if not for that it would have been another one of his first
    year collapses like the Wisconsin game where we eventually lost 42-17 that year. True Bellisari did throw for 350
    yards that game, but thats because we were absolutely getting creamed!!! That also brings up another great question
    since Bellisari was able to do so well in a bowl game against a decent SC defense, how come we didnt see any of that
    all year from him?

    "But, maybe these players now fit the system, but aren't experienced enough to execute it right now"

    Well that being the case, is it not the coaches job to "tweak" the system and find something that these
    players are able to do?!?!?!
     
  8. Sloopy45

    Sloopy45 Pimp Minister Sinister

    bartender: "Well the fact that Pittman has shown he is able to contribute atleast as much as Ross if not more then Ross,"

    Who cares who starts? Pittman had 4 carries against Whisky. Ross had a whopping 7. Against Northwestern, they both had 11. They're basically splitting the carries right now (the last two games) and neither is the feature back. That's where they stand.

    "Chad Henne TSUN. Not only is he a TRUE Freshman, he is improving in every single game that he has played."

    Chad Henne? Are you kididng? You have scUM envy. scUM is winning in spite of Henne, not because of him. Henne also has many, many more weapons around him than Zwick. Henne is not a world beater right now. He will be a great one in a year or two. Go tell Henne to win a game for scUM by himself against a good team and then get back to me.

    "You mean that same scUM game where we would have LOST had the receiver not dropped a wide open pass in his own"

    And IF dounts didn't have holes they'd be danishes. IF we didn't have such a big lead in that game, scUM probably wouldn't have been throwing the ball every down to catch up on that drive, and maybe there is no "dropped TD." Don't give me IFs. IFs don't exist. We didn't almost lose that game. We had a big lead and sat on the ball in the 2nd half when Wells got hurt. We went into a prevent and that's the only thing that made that game close in the box score.

    "scUM made great adjustments that game and if not for that it would have been another one of his first year collapses like the Wisconsin game where we eventually lost 42-17 that year."

    Get your facts straight. Tressell lost to Whisky 20-17 early that season. And there was no 'great adjustment:' scUM was down by three TDs and decided to throw the ball against a prevent defense. Whoa! Doesn't take a brain surgeon to figure that one out. And to add to that, OSU's starting TB, who was running up and down scUM's throats all day, got hurt in the 2nd half and didn't see the field again that day.

    "True Bellisari did throw for 350 yards that game, but thats because we were absolutely getting creamed!!! That also brings up another great question since Bellisari was able to do so well in a bowl game against a decent SC defense, how come we didnt see any of that all year from him?

    To answer your question, he did it because Tressell IMPROVED him from the begining of the season to the end. That was what your question was pertaining to, right? Improvement? If you also look at Bells' last couple games before the DWI that year, he was turning into an OK QB from an absolute abberation.

    And its not just the yards: he brought us back from a 28-0 defecit: 28-0!! Do you know how deep a hole that is? If not for that BS "excessive celebration" call, OSU probably wins that game, and Bells goes from the worst QB known to man against UCLA in Game 3 of that season, to the QB who led the biggest comeback in Bowl history in the last game. I'd say that's improvement, wouldn't you?

    (Those of you who were on BN at the time of that game know how irked I was at that call. As you can see, it still sticks in my craw).
     
  9. kn1f3party

    kn1f3party Junior

    1. I think it has a lot to do with Snyder being on the field. He isn't seeing the entire field and doesn't realize he could make a lot more adjustments.

    2. I'm certain the Ohio State coaching staff isn't immune to favoritism. Troy Smith had hinted toward this as a reason for a possible transfer. A lot of the balls Hall has "dropped" were poorly thrown by Zwick.

    3. The statue of liberty is a trick play. Once defenses are alerted to it, you'll probably lose a lot of yards the second time around.

    4. Jim Bollman. The offensive coordinator/line coach has been doing a pathetic job. I think our playbook has gotten smaller as the season progresses.

    5. We are, just not at the moment. Call it a combination of inexperience and poor decision making by the staff.

    6. Coincidence possibly. But then again, our Big 10 schedule always gets more difficult rather than easier.

    7. I think JT would rather adapt to his own team. He may be a passive coach.

    8. The staff will be an issue when a new coach arrives. Don't forget how short his tenure has been here. We just lost the defensive coordinator as well.

    9. I think his record speaks for itself. I care about the wins more than the stats. But we won't be able to win unless we improve. So long as Tressel wins games, he is on my side.

    10. I think there is some confusion as to what they want to do. They continue to preach balance but come out in the shotgun formation throughout the entire game. The truth is, the coaching staff isn't sure what to do right now. Hopefully they can figure something out.
     
  10. ScarletArrow

    ScarletArrow I'm wearing Gold Pants

    Show me a coach that is passive and I will show you a coach that is unemployed.

    Or, perhaps you mean something different than how I'm reading this?
     
  11. kn1f3party

    kn1f3party Junior

    I mean he is always in defense mode. Sometimes it seems he wants to see what the other team is doing before he sets up a gameplan. I don't agree with that style of coaching but that is what I meant. You can call it underpreparing, but I think its attributable to a lack in confidence.
     
  12. StoRMinBrutus

    StoRMinBrutus Great 2 B A Buckeyes !!!

    It all comes down to the Offensive line not up to speed as of yet at OSU.
    Chad Henne has a much more solid offensive line right now and that is helping his progress on the feild. OSU has the alot of weapons too but our QB has not yet matured enough and/or had the time to have a game building experience because of the lack of O-line production.
     
  13. ScarletArrow

    ScarletArrow I'm wearing Gold Pants

    I would think that every gameplan has an element of 'let's take what the defense gives us' - that's not a lack of confidence, it's systematic.

    That being said, there does seem to be a killer instinct - an attitude of domination - that every great offense has and we lack.
     
  14. osubartender23

    osubartender23 Purple Nurple King

    Henne may have a more solid OL right now that is helping his progress but scUM's OL is not that much more experienced then ours. They have 1 SR, 3 Jr's and 1 FR starting, while we have 1 SR, 2 JR's and 2 SO's starting. Considering the fact that they are definitely a more solid line then we currently have, it cant really be said that they are the more verteran line, because its close, but then it goes back to the arguement that everyones been making about scheme and coaching, technique and execution, and I think right there is the MAIN problem with our offense right now. Correct the line, and I think we have the potential for a decent offense.


    Sloopy45- "You have scUM envy. scUM is winning in spite of Henne, not because of him."

    33-49, 328 yards, 2 Td's and 2 INt's, that was Henne's stat line from his last game against Minnesota. Sure sounds like scUM won in spite of Henne by that stat line doesnt it? If by having scUM envy you mean, being envious of a team that is able to both pass and run with some efficiency in the same game, then dang right Im envious.
     
  15. StoRMinBrutus

    StoRMinBrutus Great 2 B A Buckeyes !!!

    osubartender23, I can't dispute anything you said there about OSU's coaches and players needing to step it up, but as a unit, OSU has little experience all together on offense. Not making excuses at all for their lack of production. It just seems when watching the Tsun O-line that they are farther along in maturity and execution scale. I'd bet that 1 sr and 3 juniors have had more playing time as a unit too and that helps. I never said they were veterans .. far from it and there is a difference. That was my point. I won't even try to defend the Offensive Coordinator due to the lack of production these past four years as a whole. The o-line has always been a concern even with all this talent OSU has had. I still beleive though that once the O-line does come together and sustain blocks, that things will fall into place and we will see a stark improvement with our offense as a whole. The running game, and especially with Justin Zwick in his maturity to read the defenses better, to throw to the shorter more open routes and just overall maturity to lead this team into the next level of play.
     

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