2006 Heisman Discussion (merged all)

[MililaniBuckeye]

Gonzo has better stats than Ted and he is listed.And I would be willing to bet you a Vbuck that Gonzo ends up the year ahead.
:osu:

Uh, Ted is the main reason why Gonzo has better stats...

 

[Best Buckeye]

After missing 3 or 4 weeks? No way.

Off the top I would agree with you. But figure in Texas holds Peterson to less than 100 and beats Okla. Slaton is dropping, Leak is losing time to Tebow. If all this happens where would he be. I think the talking heads would jump all over that.
:osu:

 

[Best Buckeye]

Uh, Ted is the main reason why Gonzo has better stats...

I would respectfully disagree on three points. Gonzo runs his own routes and gets himself open. Ted is a different kind of receiver, Gonzo is just as good as Ted is, Gonzo helps Ted get open just as much as Ted does for him

 

[MililaniBuckeye]

I would respectfully disagree on three points. Gonzo runs his own routes and gets himself open. Ted is a different kind of receiver, Gonzo is just as good as Ted is, Gonzo helps Ted get open just as much as ted does for him

This shows your utter lack of football acumen. Opposing defensive coordiators have said they have to keep an eye on where Ginn is every play and adjust to it. They don't do the same for Gonzo...

By the way, when Gonzo runs back four punts and a kickoff for TDs, then he can as much a Heisman candidate as Teddy...

 

[G-FORCE]

Deep breath, everybody, it's October 2. The problem Wolfe is going to encounter is that he cannot lose any momentum. NIU has already lost two games, one of them being a conference upset to Ohio U. They still have Central and Western Michigan to play, who are both undefeated in the MAC, and are in NIU's own division. There's also that game with Iowa looming.

NIU must win out, Wolfe must shatter Barry Sanders single season record, and Wolfe cannot have any let down games in the process.

None of those three are going to happen. Everybody has a bad day at the office some time. Troy already had his against PSU, and despite that still turned in a Heisman highlight play and bounced back against Iowa on national TV. Wolfe doesn't enjoy any such luxury. The only reason this is a discussion is because Wolfe hung 600 combined yards on Buffalo and Ball State in back-to-back weeks. Yes, that's a jaw dropping performance and some sick stats, but they're still Buffalo and Ball State. He's set the bar so high for himself that a 150-yard game would be a disappointment at this point.

Wolfe will get to New York, but it will be a front row seat to watch Troy accept the little stiff-arm statue.

Garrett Wolfe has never been held under 100 total yards in a game in which he actually finishes the game.

A 150 yard game would be a disappointment, but it wouldn't kill his Heisman hopes.

I expect us to win out in MAC play. Iowa may be another story.

 

[Best Buckeye]

GONZALEZ FOR HEISMAN !!!!!!

 

[NFBuck]

As good as Gonzo is, and he is VERY good, he is nowhere near a Heisman candidate. For a WR to recieve Heisman consideration he needs one of two things: contributing elsewhere ( TD's by PR, KR) or putting up absolutely sick numbers (ala Larry Fitzgerald in '03). Gonzo is doing neither at this point. He's putting up very good numbers, but not earth shattering. Manningham would be a more realistic candidate as a "pure reciever" than Gonzo right now, and he's not gonna get any attention either because of Mike Hart.

 

[Bleed S & G]

I would respectfully disagree on three points. Gonzo runs his own routes and gets himself open. Ted is a different kind of receiver, Gonzo is just as good as Ted is, Gonzo helps Ted get open just as much as Ted does for him

I will respectfully disagree, while Gonzo runs BETTER routes than Ginn, Gonzo does not have d-cords gameplan around him.

 

[Bleed S & G]

By the way, when Gonzo runs back four punts and a kickoff for TDs, then he can as much a Heisman candidate as Teddy...

So far THIS year, they are about even.. and while previous years can jump start a campaign (see UM, ND game and Troy Smith) ginn and gonzo are both equally undeserving of the heisman thus far into this season, with 0 returns

edit: although its been an uphill battle for ginn since he first showcased his ability and the d-cords can now prepare

 

[Best Buckeye]

You all make valid points and I know that Gonzo is not truly a Heisman candidate yet, and probably never will. My original statement was to the effect that if Ginn is a candidate then why not Gonzo too. He does have better stats than Ginn. Ginn gets game planned because of his speed ,not primarily his routes. Much note was made of his improvement of the winter. I also could agree that Manningham could be included and have stated so before. Even to the effect that he is a better candidate than Hart. Mainly because he opens the field for Mich.
Media people are starting to say that Gonzo is the best receiver on the team, and are starting to connect his name with the Bilitnikov. How shabby is that?

 

[MililaniBuckeye]

My original statement was to the effect that if Ginn is a candidate then why not Gonzo too. He does have better stats than Ginn.

And we told you why. Yet you keep asking...

Ginn gets game planned because of his speed ,not primarily his routes.

Teddy gets game-planned because he's the single most dangerous player in college football. Gonzo (and other WRs) can take advantage of this by capitalizing on the resulting reduced coverage.

 

[Best Buckeye]

And we told you why. Yet you keep asking...


Teddy gets game-planned because he's the single most dangerous player in college football. Gonzo (and other WRs) can take advantage of this by capitalizing on the resulting reduced coverage.

Keep in mind I think Ginn is a very good player.
among the top 40 players to date in these catagories
Total receiving
Total punt returners
Total kick returners
Ted isn't in any of these lists.
Great players make great plays
Gonzo is in 31st place in receiving.
Ted is not the most dangerous player in college football. He could be.
Ted isn't even mentioned on Heisman lists anymore.
Your footbal acumen just slipped.
http://msn.foxsports.com/cfb/stats

:osu: :)

 

[jwinslow]

BB, Teddy is definitely not on track to make it to NYC, let alone win a heisman. So Gonzalez having better numbers than him doesn't mean much... especially when he does so against lesser CBs and with far less double coverage.

Your argument is confusing at best. Teddy was a heisman candidate coming into the year for how dangerous he was at three positions (WR, KR, PR). So far he's been good (but not elite) at WR, and pretty average as a returner. Right now, he's not a heisman candidate.

As for the Biletnikoff award, he's got a long ways to catch Johnson... who has a shaky QB and very little teammate help to keep defenses from keying on him.

I also could agree that Manningham could be included and have stated so before. Even to the effect that he is a better candidate than Hart. Mainly because he opens the field for Mich.

Hart has faced many 8 & 9 man fronts. Mario is occasionally double teamed. Hart is the lifeblood of that team, and any michigan fan will tell you as much. Michigan could go 10-2 without Mario, but not without Hart.

 

[MililaniBuckeye]

Keep in mind I think Ginn is a very good player.
among the top 40 players to date in these catagories
Total receiving
Total punt returners
Total kick returners
Ted isn't in any of these lists.
Great players make great plays
Gonzo is in 31st place in receiving.
Ted is not the most dangerous player in college football. He could be.
Ted isn't even mentioned on Heisman lists anymore.
Your footbal acumen just slipped.
http://msn.foxsports.com/cfb/stats

:osu: :)

Let's tear this up, line by line:

among the top 40 players to date in these catagories
Total receiving WTF is "total" receiving? There are receptions, receiving yardage, and yards per catch. Gonzo is 55th in receptions, 31st in yardage
Total punt returners neither is Gonzo
Total kick returners neither is Gonzo
Great players make great plays Did you sleep through the Fiesta Bowl? Both Teddy and Gonzo have made great plays in their careers, but Teddy has made more of them
Ted is not the most dangerous player in college football. There are about 118 defensive coordinators who would disagree
Ted isn't even mentioned on Heisman lists anymore. Ginzo never was

 

[Best Buckeye]

BB, Teddy is definitely not on track to make it to NYC, let alone win a heisman. So Gonzalez having better numbers than him doesn't mean much... especially when he does so against lesser CBs and with far less double coverage.

Your argument is confusing at best. Teddy was a heisman candidate coming into the year for how dangerous he was at three positions (WR, KR, PR). So far he's been good (but not elite) at WR, and pretty average as a returner. Right now, he's not a heisman candidate.

As for the Biletnikoff award, he's got a long ways to catch Johnson... who has a shaky QB and very little teammate help to keep defenses from keying on him.Hart has faced many 8 & 9 man fronts. Mario is occasionally double teamed. Hart is the lifeblood of that team, and any michigan fan will tell you as much. Michigan could go 10-2 without Mario, but not without Hart.

I agree with evrything you say keeping in mind that prior years dont count. as far as Mich goes .your pint about Hart is valid too.