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2006 Heisman Discussion (merged all)

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My original statement was to the effect that if Ginn is a candidate then why not Gonzo too.

jwinslow;627447; said:
BB, Teddy is definitely not on track to make it to NYC, let alone win a heisman. So Gonzalez having better numbers than him doesn't mean much... especially when he does so against lesser CBs and with far less double coverage.

Your argument is confusing at best. Teddy was a heisman candidate coming into the year for how dangerous he was at three positions (WR, KR, PR). So far he's been good (but not elite) at WR, and pretty average as a returner. Right now, he's not a heisman candidate.

As for the Biletnikoff award, he's got a long ways to catch Johnson... who has a shaky QB and very little teammate help to keep defenses from keying on him.Hart has faced many 8 & 9 man fronts. Mario is occasionally double teamed. Hart is the lifeblood of that team, and any michigan fan will tell you as much. Michigan could go 10-2 without Mario, but not without Hart.
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I agree on the first two points you make here Jwin, and the part about the Bilitnikov. I pointed that out to show that Ginn is not a prospective yet. Not that Gonzo is going to win it.
The Hart point is valid also.
 
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MililaniBuckeye;627470; said:
Let's tear this up, line by line:

among the top 40 players to date in these catagories
Total receiving WTF is "total" receiving? There are receptions, receiving yardage, and yards per catch. Gonzo is 55th in receptions, 31st in yardage
Total punt returners neither is Gonzo
Total kick returners neither is Gonzo
Great players make great plays Did you sleep through the Fiesta Bowl? Both Teddy and Gonzo have made great plays in their careers, but Teddy has made more of them
Ted is not the most dangerous player in college football. There are about 118 defensive coordinators who would disagree
Ted isn't even mentioned on Heisman lists anymore. Ginzo never was
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Total receiving WTF is "total" receiving? There are receptions, receiving yardage, and yards per catch. Gonzo is 55th in receptions, 31st in yardage
exactly right Gonzo is listed Ginn isn't

Total punt returners neither is Gonzo
Gonzo doesnt have to be he isnt noted aas being the most dangerous man in college football
\Total kick returners neither is Gonzo
Gonzo doesnt have to be he isnt noted aas being the most dangerous man in college football
Great players make great plays Did you sleep through the Fiesta Bowl? Both Teddy and Gonzo have made great plays in their careers, but Teddy has made more of them
That was last year we are speaking of this year 22 of gonzo's 24
receptions have been for first downs or td's
Ted is not the most dangerous player in college football. There are about 118 defensive coordinators who would disagree
Name them. They dont even try to kick away for him much anymore
Ted isn't even mentioned on Heisman lists anymore. Ginzo never was
Why wouldnt the most dangerous man in college football be on the list.
 
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Ok back to the main thread. I think that from now until the Mich game all Smith will be able to do is maintain his top spot in the Heisman race. I dont think he will be able to distance himself from the others. I am basing this on the lack of top teams we will be playing. If Smith plays well he will keep the top spot, if he has a really bad day he could drop.
Only the others can enhance or remove themselves from the chase. Several SEC teams will be playing highly ranked conference teams and thier players have a chance to shine. Texas plays Okla today so Peterson can make or break himself today. Personally I think the Texas D will stop him. Smith wont hurt his chances between now and the Mich game so I figure he will win it or lose it on that day.
GO SMITH!!

:oh:
 
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Arghh!!! I hate Charlie Weis. ND was literally 6 inches away from the endzone on first and goal... and that fat ass had Brady Quinn throw for a TD against Stanford.

The guys on ABC said Ohio State was playing "a stat padding game" during the halftime of the Red River Rivalry. Why not report on some real stat padding. *cough* ND *cough*

God bless Tressel, but Troy will need to see some more playing time against Bowling Green to combat the complete assholedom of Weis in order to stay on top of the Heisman race. Playing Zwick in the 2nd quarter should get more press... but it won't.

Weis really sucks.
 
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All Troy has to do is keep throwing a few TD passes a game without throwing picks. Brady can get all the cheap TD's he wants but nobody is going to forget how awful he looked against Michigan. Stats are nice but the efficiency and flare Troy displays in every game easily trumps Quinn's cupcake numbers. At this point he only has to win out to assure himself the Heisman. Just my 2 cents.
 
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Ginn4Heisman20;628104; said:
All Troy has to do is keep throwing a few TD passes a game without throwing picks. Brady can get all the cheap TD's he wants but nobody is going to forget how awful he looked against Michigan. Stats are nice but the efficiency and flare Troy displays in every game easily trumps Quinn's cupcake numbers. At this point he only has to win out to assure himself the Heisman. Just my 2 cents.
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Good two cents! Troy didnt hurt his chances at all and even made himself a little stronger with his long run and his passing percentage.
The others are behind ,and except for Quinn and Peterson who stay pretty constant the other possible candidates leapfrog each other or drop out.
There may also be new candidates evolve from the battles now ongoing in the SEC. Doea Ark have anyone that good? Teabo actually hurts leak at Fla. I think.
 
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As of now, I believe that Smith's strongest competition for the award comes from Garrett Wolfe. He plays tonight.

Peterson had an OK day, 109 yards and 1 TD with a lost fumble. But Oklahoma, with 2 losses, will now fade from the spotlight, and his numbers are way behind Wolfe's.

Slaton had 185 yards and 1 TD ysterday, and got very little attention. He'll need to go nuts against Louisville in order to move up.

Quinn does not belong in the top 10 (let alone top 5) at this point, but because of the hype machine he must be tracked. He had a routine day of 23 of 37 for 232 yards. He got 3 TD's when they threw from the 1 yard line late rather then running it in. Stanford unfortunately dropped a couple chances at intercepetions. He is only 36th in the nation in passing efficiency, which doesn't even account in the fact that 3 of his turnovers were returned for TDs.

Leak was 19 of 26 for 155 yards and 1 pick. He lost a lot of attention because Tebow was the QB on all 3 of Florida's TD's. Even though it was a huge win for Florida, I think he fell out of the top 5 yesterday.

Hart had 22 carries for 122 yards and no TDs. Manningham had 2 TDs, but only 3 catches for 75 yards. Henne was 11-17 for 140 with 3 TDs. They are spreading the wealth, and nobody has emerged as a serious Heisman threat. And as long as tOSU wins The Game, Troy will have to be rated higher than any of those guys.

Calvin Johnson had 10 catches for 133 yards and a TD, and a lost fumble. He'll have a tough time continuing to get big numbers because Reggie Ball is his QB.

Fringe candidates who didn't help themselves yesterday:

- Stewart (Oregon) had 18 carries for 25 yards at Cal. Try again next year.

- Lynch (Cal) only had 7 carries for 50 yards before re-injuring his ankle. Also a guy for next year.

- Jarrett (USC) missed last week with an injury, and played some yesterday, but only got 1 catch for 5 yards. The missed chances of getting stats will knock him out.

- Booty (USC) was 23-40 for 243 with 1 TD and 1 pick. His candidacy is on life support, but his numbers after 6 games are probably not that different from Carson Palmer's before he went nuts in the second half of 2002.

- Irons (Auburn) had 74 yards on 15 carries in loss vs. Ark. That's his third game below 100 yards. He'll get a nice pro contract, but no trip to NY.

- Russell (LSU) had 3 picks and a goal-line fumble when LSU was trying to take the lead against Florida. That game ended his chances at winning.

- Ian Johnson (Boise St.) had 14 carries for 92 yards and 1 TD in a 55-14 blowout of La. Tech.

Fringe candidates who helped themselves this week:

- Eric Ainge (Tenn) Danny's nephew was 25-38 for 268 with 2 TDs, a 1-yard TD run, and 1 pick in a gigantic comeback at Gawga. Cutcliffe coming back as OC has made him a guy with a chance to get to NY. Ainge is now 6th in passing efficiency.

- Nate Longshore (Cal) was 14-26 for 189 with 3 TDs, 1 rushing TD, and 1 pick in their big win over Oregon. Now 9th in passing efficiency, but still unknown to many nationally.

- Chase Daniel (Missouri) - QB who replaced Brad Smith has team as 6-0. He was 15-22 for 173 yards with 1 TD pass and 1 pick. Ran 13 for 37.

Other fringe candidates:

- Tyler Palko (Pitt) - led the nation in passing efficiency coming into this week, now second to Nate Davis of Ball State. Palko was 20-24 for 177 with 1 TD, no picks and a 4-yard TD run.

- Ray Rice (Rutgers) was idle this week. His numbers are similar to Peterson and Slaton, but with less publicity.

My vote as of today:

1. Troy Smith
2. Garrett Wolfe
3. Adrian Peterson
4. Steve Slaton
5. Calvin Johnson
6. Eric Ainge
7. Nate Longshore
8. Ray Rice
9. Chase Daniel
10. Chris Leak
11. Mike Hart
 
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Solid point on Leak.

But Troy is in good shape right now. With MSU, Indiana and Minnesota on tap over the nest three weeks, Troy can continue to put up 200 yard, 3 TD performances and mix in a few of his patented first down runs, something Quinn can't. While Quinn has to work harder to catch Troy, Troy simply must maintain right now.

One of his Wolverine killer performanes on the 18th can ice it for him.
 
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