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2006 NBA Finals

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I'm a huge Lebron fan, and before the Finals, I was probably just as biased as you, on comparison between him and Wade. However, Wade led his team to an NBA championship in just his third NBA season (and he could have very well won one last year, had he not been injured).

Clearly, Lebron has better stats in his career, which is definitely on his side, on who is better. And I'm sure you could argue that he doesn't have as much talent around him as Wade does.

Let's see, Lebron has:

  • Illgauskas- who is one of the few adequate/good centers in the league.
  • Hughes- who is good, when healthy.
  • Marshall- streaky, but a good sidekick.
  • Varejao- getting there...
  • Gooden- although we all bash on him, he's decent, although very, very streaky as hell.
  • Murray- a decent scorer, and a pretty good pickup by the Cavs, for the most part
Then let's look at the talent surrounding Wade:

  • Shaq and 'Zo- Shaq's good, but I'm not even sure if he's so much better than Zydrunas. Then 'Zo is good on the defensive end, but he's not really that much of a force, just more of a good backup center.
  • Payton- isn't really much of a force anymore
  • Williams- he's pretty good, although turnover-prone, and very streaky, as well
  • Posey- a quality, emerging player that may be good for the Heat for years to come
  • Haslem- pretty good on all ends of the court
  • Walker- scores a lot, but I'd say that his knack for shooting too much might actually hurt the Heat more than anything
I'll give the edge to the Heat for better supporting cast. However, the Cavs have one of the top-tier casts in the league.

You could argue that Shaq is a big sidekick, and even if that's true; hey, even MJ needed Pippen.

Next year, the Cavs should be right up with the ranks of the Heat and the Pistons in the Eastern Conference.

What I think the MAJOR DIFFERENCE happens to be is the leadership and experience that Wade has been surrounded with.

I love Mike Brown to death, but I'd take Pat Riley over him at coach any day, and every day. There's a reason he's won five championships, and he teaches his players how to play together and play with a high level of passion and intensity.

Wade's got the edge, and a championship ring, as living proof.


crazybuckfan40 said:
No one likes someone that fakes shit all the time. That is why he called him a pussy. You watch when he went to the hoop in game 5 and got the phantom call he was screaming and acting like he was getting beat to death when he had a little hand on him.

I know that you can get a foul or two out of the officials, by falling to the ground and acting like you got hit, but no reason to flop around like you are getting ran over by a truck.

And if you didnt see it Harris broke Wade's ankles with a crossover last nite. He gets the defensive 2nd team by his effort and passion for the game, not b/c he is a top 10 defender in the league. I am pretty sure that there is no player in the league that would say Wade is a top 10 defender in the league. They might tell you he has ability to stay with them and at times he will get after you on defense, but not all the time.

BTW I am pretty sure that Billups was the MVP of the finals the year that the Pistons won it and I believe that Kobe lead the Lakers to a couple championships.

Jordan
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Wade
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Give me a break. Maybe the refs are calling shit because he flops on the floor, but he takes advantage of it (as he should), and helps his team, along the way, too. It's bitterness and biased logic like this that is so frustrating to me. Give the man credit, where it's due. If you were in his shoes, or the Cavs were in the situation, you'd applaud the "pussy flopping" every single time.

I think that your comparison of Billups and Kobe to Wade's NBA Finals performance is a twisted comparison.

Think about this:

  • Kobe had Shaq, when Shaq was in his prime, and he wasn't Finals MVP, every time he was in the Finals.
  • Billups was surrounded by well... Pistons players. They all played together well, during the season, and his stats weren't mind-blowing.
However, Wade averaged 34.7 points per game, 8 assists per game, and went to the free throw line 97 times in the series (much to your dismay :wink2: ). That's a remarkable 16.2 times per game. We all know he hit the majority of them, and that could have been one of the sole reasons they won the championship, along with his clutch shooting and game management.

Lastly, I think it's unfair to even say that Wade is so far behind Jordan.

How many championships did Jordan have after his third season?

Yeah, that's what I thought.
 
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Bill Simmons of ESPN.com basically called this series before it started:

"No team depends on the refs quite like the Heat. When the refs are calling all the bumps on Shaq and protecting Wade on every drive, they're unstoppable. When they're calling everything fairly, they're eminently beatable. If they're not getting any calls, they're just about hopeless. I could see the refs swinging two games in Miami's favor during this series, possibly three. In fact, I'm already depressed about it and the series hasn't even started yet."
 
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tibor75 said:
Bill Simmons of ESPN.com basically called this series before it started:

"No team depends on the refs quite like the Heat. When the refs are calling all the bumps on Shaq and protecting Wade on every drive, they're unstoppable. When they're calling everything fairly, they're eminently beatable. If they're not getting any calls, they're just about hopeless. I could see the refs swinging two games in Miami's favor during this series, possibly three. In fact, I'm already depressed about it and the series hasn't even started yet."
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I think you meant to say "Bill Simmons of ESPN.com basically gave Dallas its excuse for losing this series before it started, and then again every day during the series too."
 
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tibor75 said:
Bill Simmons of ESPN.com basically called this series before it started:

"No team depends on the refs quite like the Heat. When the refs are calling all the bumps on Shaq and protecting Wade on every drive, they're unstoppable. When they're calling everything fairly, they're eminently beatable. If they're not getting any calls, they're just about hopeless. I could see the refs swinging two games in Miami's favor during this series, possibly three. In fact, I'm already depressed about it and the series hasn't even started yet."
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And then after the Finals, when he had time to reflect, he said this:

"I never felt like Miami was better until Game 6, but that's the thing -- the Heat were tougher and more resilient, they could rebound and play defense, and they had one guy who could score whenever he wanted. That's really all you need to win a championship, those three elements. And they didn't fully come together until Tuesday night. Miami wanted it more than Dallas. That's why the Heat won."
 
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StadiumDorm said:
And then after the Finals, when he had time to reflect, he said this:

"I never felt like Miami was better until Game 6, but that's the thing -- the Heat were tougher and more resilient, they could rebound and play defense, and they had one guy who could score whenever he wanted. That's really all you need to win a championship, those three elements. And they didn't fully come together until Tuesday night. Miami wanted it more than Dallas. That's why the Heat won."
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"that and the refs"

(you forgot the last thing he wrote)
 
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ScarletBlood31 said:
You are bitter as fuck. Why would you blame Wade for something that should be blamed on the officials? Yes, sometimes Wade gets some calls in his favor, and he'll flop sometimes. But guess what, EVERY PLAYER IN THE LEAGUE FLOPS!! It's called getting to the line, getting points for your team, and winning the game. He is simply playing the game as it is now, and doing what it takes to get the win. It would be ridiculous to say that he should just "tough it up" and not try to draw the foul, when he can get it. I don't blame Wade at all, and I think that he is a fantastic player, and probably one of the best, if not the best, in the league. He deserves to be mentioned with the other elite (and clutch) players out there, with the like of Kobe and LeBron.


And I think that he plays good defense, and is by no means "terrible". During the finals, half of the games ended with Wade either getting a steal, or deflecting a pass to set up a shot. Did you see him reject the ally-oop attempt in the closing seconds of Game 3? He blocks a lot of shots as well, even on Dirk, who has considerable height on him. Not to mention that Wade averaged almost 8 rebounds a game in the finals, another quality that a good defender should have.



Oh yeah, and he was named NBA All-Defensive 2nd team....
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Im hoping you are not that stupid.

Wade flops every time he gets a chance, its sickening to watch. I dont like a player like Wade being compared to Jordan, because Jordan was never as big as a flopper as Wade. Avery Johnson said it the best "Wade gets calls even Jordan didnt get." Wade plays "good defense?" Wades one-on-one defense is god awful.

You must not have watched this series. And if you think that Wade is a better player than Kobe or Lebron, then wow...
 
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scarletngrey11 said:
Im hoping you are not that stupid.

Wade flops every time he gets a chance, its sickening to watch. I dont like a player like Wade being compared to Jordan, because Jordan was never as big as a flopper as Wade. Avery Johnson said it the best "Wade gets calls even Jordan didnt get." Wade plays "good defense?" Wades one-on-one defense is god awful.

You must not have watched this series. And if you think that Wade is a better player than Kobe or Lebron, then wow...
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Dude, chill.

Wade is at a level right now that Kobe wasn't at when he was Wade's age. Wade led the Heat to an NBA championship, with a little help from his teammates. However, look at his NBA Finals stats. They speak for itself.

You can be pissy all you want with his flopping, but you know just as well as I do that you would do the same thing, if you were in his situation. He's just taking advantage of what is a near "given" to him.

Lastly, quit bashing Wade. He's for the most part one of the most classiest individuals in the NBA, in a sport that could use a lot more role models.
 
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Kobe and LeBron entered the NBA at a much younger age. The factors of age and experience both need to be factored in when making comparisons about where guys were at different points in their careers.

Dwyane Wade is 24, with 3 years in the NBA as he gets his first ring and Finals MVP.

LeBron is 21, also with 3 years.

Kobe was about 22 years, 10 months when the Lakers won their first title in Kobe's 5th year (2001). Shaq was Finals MVP all 3 years.

Michael was 28 when he won his first title after 7 years in the league (1991). He was Finals MVP all 6 times the Bulls won. Michael also won 5 regular season MVP's, the other 3 guys have a total of zero of those so far.
 
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BB73 said:
Kobe and LeBron entered the NBA at a much younger age. The factors of age and experience both need to be factored in when making comparisons about where guys were at different points in their careers.

Dwyane Wade is 24, with 3 years in the NBA as he gets his first ring and Finals MVP.

LeBron is 21, also with 3 years.

Kobe was about 22 years, 10 months when the Lakers won their first title in Kobe's 5th year (2001). Shaq was Finals MVP all 3 years.

Michael was 28 when he won his first title after 7 years in the league (1991). He was Finals MVP all 6 times the Bulls won. Michael also won 5 regular season MVP's, the other 3 guys have a total of zero of those so far.
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Nice stats and analysis.

You are right, on the contrary, about age being a major factor. However, it's unfair to diminish the remarkable stats that Wade put up. I know we're a biased site (directed towards Ohio and local teams), but let's all try to keep in perspective that Wade is a good player, and could very well be just as good as LeBron.

The fact that at the age of 24, that he led his team to an NBA Championship, single-handedly (pretty much) is a very rare and impressive feat. I'm sure LeBron will get his share of titles, too, but I think it's safe to say that there is a good crop of athletes in the NBA that could be headed for elite/legendary status.
 
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scarletngrey11 said:
Im hoping you are not that stupid.

You must not have watched this series. And if you think that Wade is a better player than Kobe or Lebron, then wow...
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You kind of lose me when this is how you frame your argument. You're basing your position on the fact that Wade exploiting the poor officiating. It's a shame that this is distracting from his dominating performance in the Finals.

In my opinion, I struggle to find a weakness in Wade's game. Sure, point to defense. He's still stronger than Lebron on that end of the floor. And, outside of three-point shooting, he has very few, if any, weaknesses on offense.
 
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I don't even know where to start this thread has kinda went to hell in a hand basket and is all over the place.

The only question I will ask leaving LBJ out of this, is at this age of 24, 3 years into the league and you have a chance to take DWade or MJ who do you take.

Jordan never had good teams in his younger years. He was also going up against the Bad boys in the playoffs. He also had to go up against Bird in the playoffs. The teams were a lot better then, b/c there were less teams and the talent was more condensed and IMO players played the game better. Now a team like the Heat that was not dominant in any way could go all the way and win it all. IMO if the Cavs could of pulled off game 6 against the Pistons they would of been in the finals against the Mavs. Call me biased all you want, but that is my opinon.

Once again I will say Wade is good, I hate watching the way he plays, and he is not in Jordan's league. Jordan is the GOAT, and many players have been called baby mike or the next jordan and not one has come to frutation yet.

And I agree with stadiumdorm: Grant > Haslem. Not even a contest. Haslem is up and down all the time and had one good game in the finals. Horace Grant was a beast and a very unhearalded player.
 
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