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- Thread starter scarletandgrey
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Andres Nocioni has been a good player for Chicago the past two years. He's averaged 17.6 points and 8.5 rebounds in the playoffs.
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Fabricio Oberto is a backup PF that got only a little playing time for the Spurs this season.
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tibor75
Banned
The Heat had the best player and they deserved to win.
But the officiating left much to be deserved. That call against Dirk with 25 seconds to go was an absoltue joke. It was amazing how the ABC announcers basically said, "Well, that's a foul" WTF?
Let's look at the call
1. 25 seconds left in a 1 point game
2. Non shooting foul
3. Neither player gained an advantage after the "foul"
4. The defensive player wasn't even trying to go for the ball. He was "just there"
5. Wade wasn't even driving to the hoop. He was just dribbling around.
And they called a foul? Absolute worst call of the game.
Now that's not to say the Mavs got robbed. But it ruined the game. What if Wade had made an amazing lay up to go up by 3? What if the Mavs held and had a chance to win the game? What if Shack was fouled and made 1/2 and the Mavs tied it up to send it into overtime?
Instead we got a horrible ending that was only "saved" somewhat by Wade missing the last 2 FTs
There is really no way anybody can defend that foul call on Dirk.
But the officiating left much to be deserved. That call against Dirk with 25 seconds to go was an absoltue joke. It was amazing how the ABC announcers basically said, "Well, that's a foul" WTF?
Let's look at the call
1. 25 seconds left in a 1 point game
2. Non shooting foul
3. Neither player gained an advantage after the "foul"
4. The defensive player wasn't even trying to go for the ball. He was "just there"
5. Wade wasn't even driving to the hoop. He was just dribbling around.
And they called a foul? Absolute worst call of the game.
Now that's not to say the Mavs got robbed. But it ruined the game. What if Wade had made an amazing lay up to go up by 3? What if the Mavs held and had a chance to win the game? What if Shack was fouled and made 1/2 and the Mavs tied it up to send it into overtime?
Instead we got a horrible ending that was only "saved" somewhat by Wade missing the last 2 FTs
There is really no way anybody can defend that foul call on Dirk.
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buckeyeboy
Still fortitudinous
I agree with everything you have said here.
1. There is no way in the world Wade should have shot 25 free throws in game 5 and 21 in game 6. The vast majority of the calls were touch calls or those in which he just lowered his shoulder, drove to the hoop, and slammed into some defender. Maybe that's a defensive foul according to the NBA rule book, but if it is then I'm disgusted as to the level to which professional basketball has sunk.
2. The foul called on Nowitski gave the title to the Heat, and it was a joke. First of all, if there was any foul called, it should have been on Wade for blatantly using a forearm on Dirk. Second of all, you simply cannot make that call if you are the ref. Putting Wade on the line when no advantage was gained basically handed the title to the Heat b/c it put the Mavs down three with about 15 seconds to go. Let the players decide the title on the floor, for crying out loud.
3. I better not hear one NBA analyst claiming that Wade is the next coming simply b/c he has a title. Take Shaq and Mourning off that team and it would be a first round loser in the NBA playoffs. The Heat's success is more due to its ridiculous combination at center than it is to Wade.
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buckeyeboy
Still fortitudinous
Dude, you are absolutely on crack if you think Wade could have led those Bulls teams in the '90s to the title. Who would you rather have as your teammates:
(1) Pippen, Longley, Grant, Paxon, Cartwright, and Armstrong, or
(2) Shaq, Haslem, Mourning, Williams, Walker, Payton, and Posey
These two lineups aren't even in the same ballpark. No way are the comparisons valid.
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ScarletBlood31
Buckeye in Blacksburg
You are bitter as fuck. Why would you blame Wade for something that should be blamed on the officials? Yes, sometimes Wade gets some calls in his favor, and he'll flop sometimes. But guess what, EVERY PLAYER IN THE LEAGUE FLOPS!! It's called getting to the line, getting points for your team, and winning the game. He is simply playing the game as it is now, and doing what it takes to get the win. It would be ridiculous to say that he should just "tough it up" and not try to draw the foul, when he can get it. I don't blame Wade at all, and I think that he is a fantastic player, and probably one of the best, if not the best, in the league. He deserves to be mentioned with the other elite (and clutch) players out there, with the like of Kobe and LeBron.
And I think that he plays good defense, and is by no means "terrible". During the finals, half of the games ended with Wade either getting a steal, or deflecting a pass to set up a shot. Did you see him reject the ally-oop attempt in the closing seconds of Game 3? He blocks a lot of shots as well, even on Dirk, who has considerable height on him. Not to mention that Wade averaged almost 8 rebounds a game in the finals, another quality that a good defender should have.
Oh yeah, and he was named NBA All-Defensive 2nd team....
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crazybuckfan40
Head Coach
No one likes someone that fakes shit all the time. That is why he called him a pussy. You watch when he went to the hoop in game 5 and got the phantom call he was screaming and acting like he was getting beat to death when he had a little hand on him.
I know that you can get a foul or two out of the officials, by falling to the ground and acting like you got hit, but no reason to flop around like you are getting ran over by a truck.
And if you didnt see it Harris broke Wade's ankles with a crossover last nite. He gets the defensive 2nd team by his effort and passion for the game, not b/c he is a top 10 defender in the league. I am pretty sure that there is no player in the league that would say Wade is a top 10 defender in the league. They might tell you he has ability to stay with them and at times he will get after you on defense, but not all the time.
BTW I am pretty sure that Billups was the MVP of the finals the year that the Pistons won it and I believe that Kobe lead the Lakers to a couple championships.
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OH10
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Are you nuts? O'Neal and Mourning were more valuable than Wade? Did you even watch the playoffs?
I don't know how old you are, and I don't really want to assume. But Horace Grant was a beast at the power forward position. Pippen was one of the 50 all-time greats, because he was the quintessential complimentary player - possibly the best complimentary player of all time, even though he never had the skill level or instinct to lead a team.
PG: Jason Williams/Gary Payton vs. B.J. Armstrong/Craig Hodges or Ron Harper
Edge: Heat. I'd take Armstrong over Williams, but Payton (after he accepted his role) is far better than Hodges, who was a pretty solid shooter in his own right. Harper wasn't really a point guard, but he was better than any of the above.
SG: Ignoring the Wade vs. Jordan factor, I don't think the Heat have a bona fide backup 2-guard. But Paxson and Steve Kerr were pretty serviceable during their time.
Edge: Bulls
SF: Walker/Posey vs. Pippen. Umm... no contest.
Edge: Bulls
PF: Haslem vs. Grant or Rodman.
Edge: Bulls. Now Udonis had a cute little game the other day, making every open 15-20 foot jumper that he got. But no rational basketball fan would call this close. The Bulls don't win their final 2 titles without Rodman, no question about it in my mind. And as I said before, Grant was a beast.
C: Shaq/Mourning vs. Cartwright or Luc Longley.
Defensively, because of 'Zo, this isn't close at all. Offensively, not all that close either. But Shaquille did not and has not been playing like a top 50 all-time player or even a top-100 all-time player these playoffs. In the Detroit series, there were games where he played sparingly in the second half, and in Game 1, I don't think he played in the second half until the 3:00 mark - and he wasn't in foul trouble that game.
There's a big difference at this position, but it's not as if the difference at the center position makes up for the disadvantages the Heat had at the other positions. Cartwright was a solid pro, and Longley played the Haslem role of knocking down open jumpers and putting back offensive boards. It is, at the very least, arguable who had the better supporting cast.
Because of Shaq's presence, people discount what Wade was able to accomplish. But this is not the Shaq of 3 years ago, and not the Shaq of last year. He was mediocre throughout the playoffs, and at times, poor in the Finals.
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One thing I'm quite sure we all agree on is that there needs to be a major overhaul on how these officials call a game. I could almost play in this league now. I'm a pretty good free throw shooter, just give me the ball and I'll run into someone and score 12-16 points a night. I didn't even watch the last two games because free throws bore me. What's more is, as big a Cavs fan as I have been for 15 years, it was often hard to enjoy those games for the very same reason. The NBA has gone to shit, and frankly I don't really care much about it anymore.
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OH10
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Billups was the MVP, but I even recall the announcers saying that it could have gone to any of about 4 different guys that series. "Lead" is the key term. Please don't tell me you want to compare Billups' performance in 2004 to Wade's in 2006.
Kobe played a huge role in those championships. But I believe Shaq was the MVP of all three of those Finals' - ya know, back when Shaq was Shaq and not some fat slob pushing lard against Lasagna Diop.
And you're bitter. The guy in the picture you have flops, and whines and cries, and I'm sure you love him for it. I'm a huge Cavs' fan, but I can admit that.
But right now, Dwyane Wade has seperated himself from the rest of the 2003 class. It's not just the championship. It's his ability to make big plays on defense and to hit difficult jumpers in the clutch. He's an excellent rebounder from the guard position, and he has very good court vision. Lebron is a better passer, better rebounder, and better at taking it to the basket. But Dwyane is more composed, is a better clutch jump shooter, and a superior defender - while at the same time, terrific at taking it to the basket as well. His game is just about complete.
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