2010 TSUN News offseason (football)

[jwinslow]

I agree it is fun to watch Tom backtrack, but to me when grown men are posting a high school kids transcript on their own blog things have gone too far. Rivals said 2 months ago that Dorsey was not getting in, the debate should have ended their.

I wish it didn't have to come to that, also, but with the depths this feud has reached, it was inevitable.

 

[jwinslow]

Report: West Virginia to impose sanctions for too many coaches | freep.com | Detroit Free Press

POSTED: 3:10 P.M. JUNE 12, 2010
Report: West Virginia to impose sanctions for too many coaches
Huntington paper says violations found after U-M trouble spurred investigation
BY MARK SNYDER
FREE PRESS SPORTS WRITER

Another day, another potential tie to the NCAA’s Michigan football investigation.

The Huntington (W.Va.) Herald-Dispatch reported today that West Virginia would report violations to the NCAA and impose sanctions for having too many football coaches on the practice field.

The report, which cited unnamed sources, comes after the NCAA checked in on West Virginia’s football program during the winter in light of its five major allegations against Michigan. One of the allegations was for using too many coaches, which U-M, in last month’s response to the NCAA’s charges, admitted had occurred.

This is part of the Herald-Dispatch’s report most applicable to Michigan: “What the NCAA discovered, according to sources with knowledge of the situation, is those practices have continued at WVU,” implying that violations also occurred under Rodriguez’s tenure, which ended in December 2007 when he was hired to replace retiring Lloyd Carr. The Herald-Dispatch said the NCAA’s inquiries at West Virginia were because “the NCAA wanted to determine if Rich Rod committed the same transgressions at WVU.”

At U-M, the additional “coaches” were quality-control staff member who were exceeding the responsibilities outlined by NCAA rules. At West Virginia, according to the Herald-Dispatch, the football program’s director of high school relations and the director of player development were coaching when they were not allowed to do so.

So apparently it was more than just old-UM folks not telling RR about the UM specific CARA forms (timesheets) they use for compliance. Still a wildly overblown "scandal" but some of the momentum stems from how RR was previously painted as a victim by some.

 

[buckeyemania11]

I had no qualms with most of these lines, but Wisc -4 seems quite low. Is there something in the UM locker room that will guarantee another second half meltdown like 08? Otherwise, who is tackling John Clay?

 

[WolverineTX]

Side note: I'm back after a lengthy hiatus. Hope all's well on BP. :)

seriously though, theres so much junk out there right now, who knows what happened, but I would say it's probably in the University's best interest that he didn't enroll.

Rivals said 2 months ago that Dorsey was not getting in, the debate should have ended there.

FIFY.

I don't mean to sound terse, but let's dispense with the unnecessary posturing and/or apologetics. Anyone with a pulse knows that we're lacking defensive depth. Regardless, that Dorsey was even given so much attention, to me, simply shows there's a serious disconnect in the recruiting process. It would have been in our best interests never to have gone after the kid in the first place. I'd gladly suffer losing seasons knowing we're fielding good kids instead of criminals.

 

[Oh8ch]

I don't mean to sound terse, but let's dispense with the unnecessary posturing and/or apologetics. Anyone with a pulse knows that we're lacking defensive depth. Regardless, that Dorsey was even given so much attention, to me, simply shows there's a serious disconnect in the recruiting process. It would have been in our best interests never to have gone after the kid in the first place. I'd gladly suffer losing seasons knowing we're fielding good kids instead of criminals.

And the point the RR lovers are missing is that this sort of "disconnect" and reach has never before happened at UM.

Hell of a mess you are in. He is your captain and you have to salute. Gotta go all in and pull for the old Maize and Blue.

But geesh.

 

[WolverineMike]

the defense has been in steady decline for longer than the last 2 years, so i'm not dumping it all in his lap. But I agree. Start winning and we won't have to go after these borderline kids.

 

[Buckeyeskickbuttocks]

Start winning and we won't have to go after these borderline kids.

WM, I think you've overlooked a pretty serious thing in making this remark.

Let's go back to when RR was hired. A lot of the excitement among your fan base was "imagine what RR can do with the Michigan caliber recruits" and "RR was able to dominate at West Virginia, and that was with second rate talent!"

The assumption has always been (well, had always been) that Michigan was a bigger player for top recruits than was/is WVU. In short, Michigan wouldn't be changing the type of guy they'd recruit - they'd still be going after blue chippers and "quality" guys just like always, but that these guys would be playing in a "modern" offensive system (a move I still think was a mistake from the get-go, but that's a different discussion).

And, I'm even willing to give RR a bit of a pass on year 1 - no QB on the roster could run his O effectively. His O-line had to learn new blocking schemes... change of attitude among some LC recruits...

But, then you look at who RR has recruited, and you see he's turned Michigan in to West Virginia. That is to say - he didn't take Michigan's reputation, build on it, and offer Michigan Men the chance to play in his "revolutionary" offense.... no... he does what he's always done.... the only thing he knows... what he had to do at WVU - take risky kids who aren't getting looks from the 'big boys' In short, RR never has understood... Michigan already was a big boy. You guys don't need to go after a kid with multiple robberies on his record. You don't need to take a chance that a coke dealer has fiinally decded football is his best opportunity... You're fucking Michigan...

Or...

you used to be.

 

[tsteele316]

WM, I think you've overlooked a pretty serious thing in making this remark.

Let's go back to when RR was hired. A lot of the excitement among your fan base was "imagine what RR can do with the Michigan caliber recruits" and "RR was able to dominate at West Virginia, and that was with second rate talent!"

The assumption has always been (well, had always been) that Michigan was a bigger player for top recruits than was/is WVU. In short, Michigan wouldn't be changing the type of guy they'd recruit - they'd still be going after blue chippers and "quality" guys just like always, but that these guys would be playing in a "modern" offensive system (a move I still think was a mistake from the get-go, but that's a different discussion).

And, I'm even willing to give RR a bit of a pass on year 1 - no QB on the roster could run his O effectively. His O-line had to learn new blocking schemes... change of attitude among some LC recruits...

But, then you look at who RR has recruited, and you see he's turned Michigan in to West Virginia. That is to say - he didn't take Michigan's reputation, build on it, and offer Michigan Men the chance to play in his "revolutionary" offense.... no... he does what he's always done.... the only thing he knows... what he had to do at WVU - take risky kids who aren't getting looks from the 'big boys' In short, RR never has understood... Michigan already was a big boy. You guys don't need to go after a kid with multiple robberies on his record. You don't need to take a chance that a coke dealer has fiinally decded football is his best opportunity... You're fucking Michigan...

Or...

you used to be.

the problem is that too many kids realize that RR's offensive system isn't conducive to making it to the NFL, especially at the qb position. so, RR has to take kids like denard robinson and hope that he finds pat white 2.0 somewhere. couple that with running that system in a conference like the big 10, and you see how the offensive woes have mounted.

defense, there's no excuse for that product.

 

[Buckeyeskickbuttocks]

the problem is that too many kids realize that RR's offensive system isn't conducive to making it to the NFL, especially at the qb position. so, RR has to take kids like denard robinson and hope that he finds pat white 2.0 somewhere. couple that with running that system in a conference like the big 10, and you see how the offensive woes have mounted.

defense, there's no excuse for that product.

That's pretty much what I meant in my parenthetical remark about RRs system being a mistake from the get go. I agree with you, but it wasn't the point I was trying to make re: going from taking a certain type of kid to taking a different type of kid.

 

[ysubuck]

WM, I think you've overlooked a pretty serious thing in making this remark.

Let's go back to when RR was hired. A lot of the excitement among your fan base was "imagine what RR can do with the Michigan caliber recruits" and "RR was able to dominate at West Virginia, and that was with second rate talent!"

The assumption has always been (well, had always been) that Michigan was a bigger player for top recruits than was/is WVU. In short, Michigan wouldn't be changing the type of guy they'd recruit - they'd still be going after blue chippers and "quality" guys just like always, but that these guys would be playing in a "modern" offensive system (a move I still think was a mistake from the get-go, but that's a different discussion).

And, I'm even willing to give RR a bit of a pass on year 1 - no QB on the roster could run his O effectively. His O-line had to learn new blocking schemes... change of attitude among some LC recruits...

But, then you look at who RR has recruited, and you see he's turned Michigan in to West Virginia. That is to say - he didn't take Michigan's reputation, build on it, and offer Michigan Men the chance to play in his "revolutionary" offense.... no... he does what he's always done.... the only thing he knows... what he had to do at WVU - take risky kids who aren't getting looks from the 'big boys' In short, RR never has understood... Michigan already was a big boy. You guys don't need to go after a kid with multiple robberies on his record. You don't need to take a chance that a coke dealer has fiinally decded football is his best opportunity... You're fucking Michigan...

Or...

you used to be.

And the next guy who comes in in the next year or two is going to have a roster full of "tweeners" who were recruited for a specific type of offense. The damage being done here is going to last at least 4 or 5 more years.

Never thought I'd see the day.

 

[osubartender23]

I say we go poaching in USC's backyard. I'm sure there are some junior and senior defensive players that would like to head somewhere else right now!

I see no reason why any of their players would want to finish out their college careers at TSUN. USC is on a 2 year bowl ban and TSUN has almost no shot at making a bowl themselves! Seems like a lateral move to me :)

 

[WolverineTX]

And the point the RR lovers are missing is that this sort of "disconnect" and reach has never before happened at UM.

Agreed. As much as I'd be tempted to pin it on RR and his staff, I think it's become pretty clear that the breakdown in recruiting traces back into Carr's tenure. I wish I knew for sure what's been going on behind the scenes for the last few years. Regardless, even if Rodriguez & co. have the best of intentions, they've sure managed to magnify existing problems rather than fix them. It's so painful to watch.

Hell of a mess you are in. He is your captain and you have to salute. Gotta go all in and pull for the old Maize and Blue.

But geesh.

I have to say it's a damned peculiar feeling looking ahead to this season. If I honestly ask myself "what's the most exciting thing about this fall?"... the first answer that pops into my head is "stadium renovation's finished!" Um... yay?

 

[MaliBuckeye]

You're fucking Michigan...

Sorry, I can't read that without thinking of this-

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WTADSFR0E_c"]I'm f*cking Matt Damon[/ame]


Back to the topic at hand...

 

[Dryden]

Agreed. As much as I'd be tempted to pin it on RR and his staff, I think it's become pretty clear that the breakdown in recruiting traces back into Carr's tenure.

This sounds like the same old "cupboard was bare" cop-out. For whatever it's worth, Kiper has Mallett as the third best QB in the upcoming draft, and Boren the second best OG. Carr would not be turning in three and four win seasons with the talent Michigan had, at least before R-Rod ran them all off.

JT has proven you can whiff on an entire recruiting year, even two, and still play for a national title. Nothing the Carr regime did or did not do on the recruiting trail over the mid-to-late 00s suggests Michigan should be this awful.

 

[MililaniBuckeye]

the defense has been in steady decline for longer than the last 2 years, so i'm not dumping it all in his lap. But I agree. Start winning and we won't have to go after these borderline kids.

Wrong. Michgan's defense was pretty steady under Carr. Here are Michigan's defensive statistics since 2001, the year Jim Tressel took over:

DEFENSE TOTAL . RUSH . PASS . SCORING
2009 .... 82 .... 91 ... 67 .... 77
2008 .... 67 .... 50 ... 87 .... 84
2007 .... 24 .... 58 .... 8 .... 23
2006 .... 10 ..... 1 ... 89 .... 15
2005 .... 36 .... 41 ... 42 .... 24
2004 .... 33 .... 39 ... 43 .... 42
2003 .... 11 .... 22 ... 15 .... 11
2002 .... 42 .... 31 ... 69 .... 26
2001 .... 12 ..... 8 ... 49 ..... 9

If Michigan's defense "has been in steady decline for longer than the last 2 years", then why was its TOTAL and SCORING defenses better in 2007 than it was for half the previous six seasons? In 28 categories under Carr (total, rushing, passing, and scoring for seven seasons) only three were worse than 49th (2007 rushing, 2006 passing, and 2002 passing). In the eight categories under DickRod, there hasn't been one better than 50th, with seven of the eight being 67th or worse.

So don't even insinuate that DickRod inherited an already festering problem on defense. The clown just doesn't believe in defense...