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2015-16 Ohio State Quarterback Discussion

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Good thing Urban makes the big money because this will be an interesting decision if things fall as anticipated. My thoughts:

1. JT's ability to throw long exploits our speed vertically in a way we have not seen from Braxton. After last nights game Urban stated that the game plan last year was also to go long but that they just missed (with the third year Junior). This year they connected (with the second year RS Frosh).

So how does the player who is going a year without reps and recovering from an injury to his throwing arm close that gap? And how does he overtake a kid who now has more experience in a tweaked offensive scheme than he does?

2. On the other hand Braxton can do things with his legs that are hard to match. (I love watching Jalin and Dontre run the wildcat. But is it still the wildcat if Braxton is the QB?)

But even though JT can't do those miraculous juke moves, the 55 yard run last night merits study. At the end of that run he could easily have taken two steps to the left and gone untouched out of bounds. Instead he lowered his shoulder and made contact. And he got up.

I don't like it when the QB chooses contact, but I absolutely shudder when it is Braxton. He has had to leave the game too many times.

3. I have read respected posters opinions that Braxton is the better QB. Certainly he was a year ago.

But to be frank I am having trouble coming to that same conclusion. With the exception of PSU JT has improve game by game. I don't see a clear advantage in leadership or ability to read the option. JT does not have the same ability to turn any run into a TD, but he can get needed yards consistently (compare the critical 4th down against MSU last season versus the short yardage runs last night). His ability to find receivers and to connect downfield are arguably superior.

JT is putting up unprecedented numbers at a remarkable pace. But we can't give him all the credit. OSU has weapons no other QB - including Braxton - has had at their disposal. But not every QB can make that work and he has.

4. As for Braxton moving to another position, if we have learned anything it is the value of having a backup (whichever player that backup is). True, I didn't know we had one this year until I watched JT play. Maybe it could be Collier. Maybe it could be Burrow or Gibson. But it isn't Jones. And it is likely wishful thinking that we will hit on two kids in succession who can accomplish what JT has done. We need Braxton to come back playing QB as his primary position. And yet...

Braxton is an NFL caliber athlete. But is he an NFL caliber QB?

I can still recall Urban as a broadcaster doing an OSU game when Braxton was a Frosh. He couldn't contain his excitement. And when he took the HC job he made it clear at his presser that he couldn't wait to get his hands on this kid. But as good as he has been and regardless of the numbers he has put up it is his ability to do things that an NFL QB is not asked to do that have set him apart. He has one year with a suspect shoulder to prove that he can do the things an NFL QB IS asked to do while proving that he is not too fragile to do them consistently.

His greatest benefit to this program would be to come back as a QB. For himself, I am not so sure.

5. Which brings us to egos. How do you keep two QBs happy. Particularly when the one you might want to take the most reps is the kid while the one coming off the bench is the 5th year player who sat a year so he could come back.

That is why Urban gets the big bucks.

These are two warriors and as a fan of a team that has sported names like Belisari and Boeckman it is a fun position to be in.

Finally, I have also read posts that we should shut this thread down. I get that it can become divisive. But if we can't discuss topics like this I don't understand the point of sports forums. To be sure the cart is way ahead of the horse, but if we can speculate endlessly about decisions that kids still in HS are going to make speculating on our starting QB next season seems fair game.
 
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Oh8ch said:
Good thing Urban makes the big money because this will be an interesting decision if things fall as anticipated. My thoughts:

1. JT's ability to throw long exploits our speed vertically in a way we have not seen from Braxton. After last nights game Urban stated that the game plan last year was also to go long but that they just missed (with the third year Junior). This year they connected (with the second year RS Frosh).

So how does the player who is going a year without reps and recovering from an injury to his throwing arm close that gap? And how does he overtake a kid who now has more experience in a tweaked offensive scheme than he does?

2. On the other hand Braxton can do things with his legs that are hard to match. (I love watching Jalin and Dontre run the wildcat. But is it still the wildcat if Braxton is the QB?)

But even though JT can't do those miraculous juke moves, the 55 yard run last night merits study. At the end of that run he could easily have taken two steps to the left and gone untouched out of bounds. Instead he lowered his shoulder and made contact. And he got up.

I don't like it when the QB chooses contact, but I absolutely shudder when it is Braxton. He has had to leave the game too many times.

3. I have read respected posters opinions that Braxton is the better QB. Certainly he was a year ago.

But to be frank I am having trouble coming to that same conclusion. With the exception of PSU JT has improve game by game. I don't see a clear advantage in leadership or ability to read the option. JT does not have the same ability to turn any run into a TD, but he can get needed yards consistently (compare the critical 4th down against MSU last season versus the short yardage runs last night). His ability to find receivers and to connect downfield are arguably superior.

JT is putting up unprecedented numbers at a remarkable pace. But we can't give him all the credit. OSU has weapons no other QB - including Braxton - has had at their disposal. But not every QB can make that work and he has.

4. As for Braxton moving to another position, if we have learned anything it is the value of having a backup (whichever player that backup is). True, I didn't know we had one this year until I watched JT play. Maybe it could be Collier. Maybe it could be Burrow or Gibson. But it isn't Jones. And it is likely wishful thinking that we will hit on two kids in succession who can accomplish what JT has done. We need Braxton to come back playing QB as his primary position. And yet...

Braxton is an NFL caliber athlete. But is he an NFL caliber QB?

I can still recall Urban as a broadcaster doing an OSU game when Braxton was a Frosh. He couldn't contain his excitement. And when he took the HC job he made it clear at his presser that he couldn't wait to get his hands on this kid. But as good as he has been and regardless of the numbers he has put up it is his ability to do things that an NFL QB is not asked to do that have set him apart. He has one year with a suspect shoulder to prove that he can do the things an NFL QB IS asked to do while proving that he is not too fragile to do them consistently.

His greatest benefit to this program would be to come back as a QB. For himself, I am not so sure.

5. Which brings us to egos. How do you keep two QBs happy. Particularly when the one you might want to take the most reps is the kid while the one coming off the bench is the 5th year player who sat a year so he could come back.

That is why Urban gets the big bucks.

These are two warriors and as a fan of a team that has sported names like Belisari and Boeckman it is a fun position to be in.

Finally, I have also read posts that we should shut this thread down. I get that it can become divisive. But if we can't discuss topics like this I don't understand the point of sports forums. To be sure the cart is way ahead of the horse, but if we can speculate endlessly about decisions that kids still in HS are going to make speculating on our starting QB next season seems fair game.
Click to expand...

I have been asserting all along that Miller was the better QB. My reasons were that he had won games where the Buckeyes weren't favored, games where he wasn't playing his best, conference games on the road in November and games where he didn't get much help from the rest of the offense.

Barrett's grasp of the offense, leadership, and statistics are undeniable. It's those other, perhaps less tangible qualities that he had yet to show. Against Penn State and M*ch*g*n State he stared to fill in that part of this resume.

I don't claim to know what's going to happen between now and next fall, and I don't think any of the principals do either. What does Miller want? Does he stay or leave? What will his body let him do? What does Coach Meyer think is best? Will Tom Herman still be OC and QB coach? If not, what would a new OC prefer? Can Barrett maintain his form? If there is a competition, who wins? How does the selection of one QB over another affect how this team is perceived heading into a season where they will be competing for a national championship? There are too many moving parts to this. It's fun to think about it and speculate, and I can certainly see different sides to this situation. What I won't stand for though is some of the older posts that discard Braxton Miller like he's yesterday's news.
 
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jlb1705 said:
I don't claim to know what's going to happen between now and next fall, and I don't think any of the principals do either. What does Miller want? Does he stay or leave? What will his body let him do? What does Coach Meyer think is best? Will Tom Herman still be OC and QB coach? If not, what would a new OC prefer? Can Barrett maintain his form? If there is a competition, who wins? How does the selection of one QB over another affect how this team is perceived heading into a season where they will be competing for a national championship? There are too many moving parts to this. It's fun to think about it and speculate, and I can certainly see different sides to this situation. What I won't stand for though is some of the older posts that discard Braxton Miller like he's yesterday's news.
Click to expand...

Not discarding Braxton like he's yesterday's news, but the 2015 offense will be much different than last year or even this year. The corp Braxton built his rapport with (Spencer, Smith, and Heuerman) will be gone. Braxton probably isn't throwing a football again until summer, at the earliest, which means JT will have had all of this season, winter conditioning, and the self-organized 7-on-7s going into fall 2015 camp.

It's about more than 2015. It's 2016 too. I'm just not convinced starting Braxton, coming off a 20-month layoff, for a single season with all new offensive personnel in 2015 maximizes the potential of that group, nor does benching JT for a season maximize the 2016 campaign.

It's a tough decision, and what's worse is there won't be a "right" answer, so this will be the elephant in the room all next season. God forbid whoever is the QB loses a game.
 
Upvote 0
Oh8ch said:
Good thing Urban makes the big money because this will be an interesting decision if things fall as anticipated. My thoughts:

1. JT's ability to throw long exploits our speed vertically in a way we have not seen from Braxton. After last nights game Urban stated that the game plan last year was also to go long but that they just missed (with the third year Junior). This year they connected (with the second year RS Frosh).

So how does the player who is going a year without reps and recovering from an injury to his throwing arm close that gap? And how does he overtake a kid who now has more experience in a tweaked offensive scheme than he does?

2. On the other hand Braxton can do things with his legs that are hard to match. (I love watching Jalin and Dontre run the wildcat. But is it still the wildcat if Braxton is the QB?)

But even though JT can't do those miraculous juke moves, the 55 yard run last night merits study. At the end of that run he could easily have taken two steps to the left and gone untouched out of bounds. Instead he lowered his shoulder and made contact. And he got up.

I don't like it when the QB chooses contact, but I absolutely shudder when it is Braxton. He has had to leave the game too many times.

3. I have read respected posters opinions that Braxton is the better QB. Certainly he was a year ago.

But to be frank I am having trouble coming to that same conclusion. With the exception of PSU JT has improve game by game. I don't see a clear advantage in leadership or ability to read the option. JT does not have the same ability to turn any run into a TD, but he can get needed yards consistently (compare the critical 4th down against MSU last season versus the short yardage runs last night). His ability to find receivers and to connect downfield are arguably superior.

JT is putting up unprecedented numbers at a remarkable pace. But we can't give him all the credit. OSU has weapons no other QB - including Braxton - has had at their disposal. But not every QB can make that work and he has.

4. As for Braxton moving to another position, if we have learned anything it is the value of having a backup (whichever player that backup is). True, I didn't know we had one this year until I watched JT play. Maybe it could be Collier. Maybe it could be Burrow or Gibson. But it isn't Jones. And it is likely wishful thinking that we will hit on two kids in succession who can accomplish what JT has done. We need Braxton to come back playing QB as his primary position. And yet...

Braxton is an NFL caliber athlete. But is he an NFL caliber QB?

I can still recall Urban as a broadcaster doing an OSU game when Braxton was a Frosh. He couldn't contain his excitement. And when he took the HC job he made it clear at his presser that he couldn't wait to get his hands on this kid. But as good as he has been and regardless of the numbers he has put up it is his ability to do things that an NFL QB is not asked to do that have set him apart. He has one year with a suspect shoulder to prove that he can do the things an NFL QB IS asked to do while proving that he is not too fragile to do them consistently.

His greatest benefit to this program would be to come back as a QB. For himself, I am not so sure.

5. Which brings us to egos. How do you keep two QBs happy. Particularly when the one you might want to take the most reps is the kid while the one coming off the bench is the 5th year player who sat a year so he could come back.

That is why Urban gets the big bucks.

These are two warriors and as a fan of a team that has sported names like Belisari and Boeckman it is a fun position to be in.

Finally, I have also read posts that we should shut this thread down. I get that it can become divisive. But if we can't discuss topics like this I don't understand the point of sports forums. To be sure the cart is way ahead of the horse, but if we can speculate endlessly about decisions that kids still in HS are going to make speculating on our starting QB next season seems fair game.
Click to expand...

What's the basis of your position that Jones is not an acceptable backup?
 
Upvote 0
Oh8ch said:
Good thing Urban makes the big money because this will be an interesting decision if things fall as anticipated. My thoughts:

1. JT's ability to throw long exploits our speed vertically in a way we have not seen from Braxton. After last nights game Urban stated that the game plan last year was also to go long but that they just missed (with the third year Junior). This year they connected (with the second year RS Frosh).

So how does the player who is going a year without reps and recovering from an injury to his throwing arm close that gap? And how does he overtake a kid who now has more experience in a tweaked offensive scheme than he does?

2. On the other hand Braxton can do things with his legs that are hard to match. (I love watching Jalin and Dontre run the wildcat. But is it still the wildcat if Braxton is the QB?)

But even though JT can't do those miraculous juke moves, the 55 yard run last night merits study. At the end of that run he could easily have taken two steps to the left and gone untouched out of bounds. Instead he lowered his shoulder and made contact. And he got up.

I don't like it when the QB chooses contact, but I absolutely shudder when it is Braxton. He has had to leave the game too many times.

3. I have read respected posters opinions that Braxton is the better QB. Certainly he was a year ago.

But to be frank I am having trouble coming to that same conclusion. With the exception of PSU JT has improve game by game. I don't see a clear advantage in leadership or ability to read the option. JT does not have the same ability to turn any run into a TD, but he can get needed yards consistently (compare the critical 4th down against MSU last season versus the short yardage runs last night). His ability to find receivers and to connect downfield are arguably superior.

JT is putting up unprecedented numbers at a remarkable pace. But we can't give him all the credit. OSU has weapons no other QB - including Braxton - has had at their disposal. But not every QB can make that work and he has.

4. As for Braxton moving to another position, if we have learned anything it is the value of having a backup (whichever player that backup is). True, I didn't know we had one this year until I watched JT play. Maybe it could be Collier. Maybe it could be Burrow or Gibson. But it isn't Jones. And it is likely wishful thinking that we will hit on two kids in succession who can accomplish what JT has done. We need Braxton to come back playing QB as his primary position. And yet...

Braxton is an NFL caliber athlete. But is he an NFL caliber QB?

I can still recall Urban as a broadcaster doing an OSU game when Braxton was a Frosh. He couldn't contain his excitement. And when he took the HC job he made it clear at his presser that he couldn't wait to get his hands on this kid. But as good as he has been and regardless of the numbers he has put up it is his ability to do things that an NFL QB is not asked to do that have set him apart. He has one year with a suspect shoulder to prove that he can do the things an NFL QB IS asked to do while proving that he is not too fragile to do them consistently.

His greatest benefit to this program would be to come back as a QB. For himself, I am not so sure.

5. Which brings us to egos. How do you keep two QBs happy. Particularly when the one you might want to take the most reps is the kid while the one coming off the bench is the 5th year player who sat a year so he could come back.

That is why Urban gets the big bucks.

These are two warriors and as a fan of a team that has sported names like Belisari and Boeckman it is a fun position to be in.

Finally, I have also read posts that we should shut this thread down. I get that it can become divisive. But if we can't discuss topics like this I don't understand the point of sports forums. To be sure the cart is way ahead of the horse, but if we can speculate endlessly about decisions that kids still in HS are going to make speculating on our starting QB next season seems fair game.
Click to expand...

Re:His ability to find receivers and to connect downfield are arguably superior.

I don't think there is any arguable about it. Braxton is a fantastic athlete and leader, but his passing is above average. With a good shoulder. Which brings me to my next point...


Re:He has one year with a suspect shoulder to prove that he can do the things an NFL QB IS asked to do while proving that he is not too fragile to do them consistently

Even before the first surgery, NFL teams were luke warm and not buying into Braxton as an NFL QB. Now after two surgeries that will keep him out for so long, and specifically a throwing injury, and having injury concerns throughout his career ... there's no way any NFL team goes near him as a QB. He's not Peyton Manning, a brilliant established passer, coming off an injury. As far as the NFL is concerned, he's an injury-prone Terrelle Pryor w/o the size.
There is, nonetheless, a place in the NFL for him. And he'd be given plenty of chances at another position.
That's why between the reality of this injury (coming back is far from guaranteed) and future employment considerations, I believe this problem solves itself before the 2016 season.
 
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maximumblitz said:
I cannot find the quote, but when Urban was asked about Curtis Samuel starting at RB 2 weeks ago, he said that "competition was good". There may be competition at the QB spot.
Click to expand...
Wait ... Curtis Samuel at QB?

giphy.gif
 
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Similar story on NFL.com too.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap30...ettbraxton-miller-qb-battle-an-intriguing-one

Potential J.T. Barrett-Braxton Miller QB battle an intriguing one

By Mike Huguenin
College Football 24/7 writer

One of the in-the-background story lines for Ohio State this season has been the status of quarterback Braxton Miller for next season.

Miller was seen as a potential Heisman contender going into the season, but he suffered a shoulder injury in August that knocked him out for the season. The presumption all along has been that Miller would return for a fifth season next fall.

Miller's return was brought up during Buckeyes coach Urban Meyer's weekly Monday news conference. Meyer has been saying all along that Miller would return with the same status he had held when he was hurt -- i.e., the starter. But that changed Monday.

"Competition brings out the best, and I'm really excited to have two really good quarterbacks next year, if that's the plan," he told reporters.

Cont'd ...
 
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