Big Ten and other Conference Expansion

[Steve19]

Maybe Delaney planned all along to offer ND, wait for their reaction, then punish them if they make the wrong choice.

My thinking as well. Notre Dame trying to extract rents among B1G teams was never going to work. You come in, you're like everyone else. Of course, except for you have to lift your academics.

If you're Delaney, if you can't make Notre Dame or Texas work, let all of the confusion settle a bit and see what's still on the table that you could make work. What you can't do is to let Notre Dame bring another meaningful conference across your footprint. So, this is a good counter and Delaney, who's had a terrible rep the last few years, gets some back.

 

[DaveyBoy]

The world has changed over time......

Nebraska isn't the national recruiting power it used to be.....it may never be again. It's no longer connected to KC, StLouis, Oklahoma, and Texas like it once was.....it will rely more on players from within the B1G states going forward.

The states of Nebraska, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Iowa combined produce fewer BCS caliber athletes than any singe SEC states other than Missouri, Kentucky, and perhaps Tennessee.

Illinois isn't much better after Notre Dame pulls some of Chicagoland's best

Notre Dame isn't joining...period...so the B1G has to increase revenue in other ways.

Oh well if it's 'pure statistical reality' who could possibly argue.

Wait, that'd be me. Run the actual numbers then come back to me ... and don't forget to show your work.

I know I'm being harsh but I think if you really look into the number of NFL caliber kids who come out of the Big Ten footprint (without counting NY/NJ/MD, states where TSUN, Ohio State & especially PSU have done extremely well) you'll find that there is plenty of talent to feed the powers in the region and that is before adding in how heavily Florida (Ohio State), Cali (TSUN) & Texas (UNL) are recruited.

 

[Muck]

The world has changed over time......

Sure but I'm looking at the numbers over the past ten years, not the 1970's

Nebraska isn't the national recruiting power it used to be.....it may never be again. It's no longer connected to KC, StLouis, Oklahoma, and Texas like it once was.....it will rely more on players from within the B1G states going forward.

Nebraska has always recruited nationally as much as anyone and while some have said that moving to the B1G will hurt their long term recruiting in Texas there's no actual evidence to support that hypothesis yet. Currently 20% of their roster hails from Texas.

The states of Nebraska, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Iowa combined produce fewer BCS caliber athletes than any singe SEC states other than Missouri, Kentucky, and perhaps Tennessee.

Nebraska, Minnesota, Wisconsin & Iowa combined have put more players in the NFL over the past ten years than Kentucky, Missouri, Arkansas, Mississippi, Tennessee, South Carolina or Alabama.

Illinois isn't much better after Notre Dame pulls some of Chicagoland's best

Notre Dame has more kids from Cali on the roster than it does Illinois.

Notre Dame isn't joining...period...so the B1G has to increase revenue in other ways.

No one said they were.

 

[buchtelgrad04]

Nebraska has always recruited nationally as much as anyone and while some have said that moving to the B1G will hurt their long term recruiting in Texas there's no actual evidence to support that hypothesis yet. Currently 20% of their roster hails from Texas.

To add, their current recruiting class has kids from 10 different states. Arizona, Alabama, Missouri, Cali, Maryland, South Dakota, Wisconsin, 1 from Nebraska, 2 from Indiana and 4 from Ohio.

 

[Mrstickball]

Expanding east is about the only logical choice at this point in time.

Going west/south isn't going to expand the B1G's footprint significantly, unless you somehow pried Texas away from the Big 12, which looks unlikely. Otherwise, you're talking about teams that really add no new markets.

Eastward, the markets are a huge homerun, especially for basketball. Certainly, the programs aren't where they need to be with basketball, but with B1G TV dollars, you can probably get them to where they need to be in 5 or 7 years. And that should be Delany's real question: What are the best teams to go after that will be of good value 7, 10, 20 years from now?

http://www.tulsaworld.com/specialprojects/sports/starsearch/#intmap

Right now, the whole northeast is vastly under-developed. Maryland puts out more college players than New York, despite NY putting out approximately 3.5x as many high school students. With the right kinda media, that can and will change. When that does, it'd put the B1G in a killer position, as it'd have pretty much exclusive rights to the entire northeast.

 

[Muck]

Speaking of New York... Supposedly the installation of field turf at the HS & lower levels has started a sea change in the number of kids playing football in and around the city. If that is true then we can expect to see the number of quality FB players from in and around the city take off in the future.

.../snip/...
Eastward, the markets are a huge homerun, especially for basketball. Certainly, the programs aren't where they need to be with basketball, but with B1G TV dollars, you can probably get them to where they need to be in 5 or 7 years.
.../snip/...

Small typo there. :) (Obviously meant 'football'.)

 

[MaxBuck]

So at least it looks like we've triangulated the original source. Phil Grosz.

This guy:

Wait a minute. You're suggesting that is a photograph of a live human being?

What a bunch of credulous dweebs you take us for, Muck.

 

[jlb1705]

As the Conferences Turn: Maryland, Big Ten rumors back in vogue

So at least it looks like we've triangulated the original source. Phil Grosz.

This guy:

 

[Dryden]

I know I'm being harsh but I think if you really look into the number of NFL caliber kids who come out of the Big Ten footprint (without counting NY/NJ/MD, states where TSUN, Ohio State & especially PSU have done extremely well) you'll find that there is plenty of talent to feed the powers in the region and that is before adding in how heavily Florida (Ohio State), Cali (TSUN) & Texas (UNL) are recruited.

One example of this might be that the MAC has outproduced the Sun Belt by a 2:1 margin over the past ten years (76 NFL draft picks for the MAC vs 39 for the Sun Belt). I don't think it's a coincidence that when the MAC really exploded in exposure about fifteen years ago (Randy Moss for Heisman, Pennington, Leftwich, Roethlisberger, etc ...), it marked the beginning of the decline in depth of the B1G, both for individual teams and from the perspective of the quality of play across the league as a whole.

I'm guessing Alabama and Auburn aren't losing their academic casualties to Troy like Ohio State is losing them to Toledo and Akron.

 

[Muck]

Wait a minute. You're suggesting that is a photograph of a live human being?

What a bunch of credulous dweebs you take us for, Muck.

Human being?

No, I never suggested that for a moment.

Phil Grosz is the owner of BWI and was buds with Jerry Sandusky.

One example of this might be that the MAC has outproduced the Sun Belt by a 2:1 margin over the past ten years (76 NFL draft picks for the MAC vs 39 for the Sun Belt). I don't think it's a coincidence that when the MAC really exploded in exposure about fifteen years ago (Randy Moss for Heisman, Pennington, Leftwich, Roethlisberger, etc ...), it marked the beginning of the decline in depth of the B1G, both for individual teams and from the perspective of the quality of play across the league as a whole.

I'm guessing Alabama and Auburn aren't losing their academic casualties to Troy like Ohio State is losing them to Toledo and Akron.

Interesting thought. Definitely worth looking into further.

BTW what source are you getting your draft numbers from? I see 58 & 21 for the MAC & Sun Belt respectively (counting only current vs past members might account for the differences).

http://NFL Draft HistoryNFL Draft History

OK according to the link above:
MAC
03-12 = 58
93-02 = 40

Sun Belt
03-12 = 21
93-02 = 2

Now I have to figure out how it counts membership.

 

[ORD_Buckeye]

As the Conferences Turn: Maryland, Big Ten rumors back in vogue

So at least it looks like we've triangulated the original source. Phil Grosz.

This guy:

Looks like a fucking pederast.

 

[Muck]

Looks like a fucking pederast.

Look at my post right above yours.

 

[Woody1968]

Demographics simply won't allow that many BigTen teams to be great at the same time. There literally aren't enough 5 star, 4 star, and even 3 star players in the region.

Now if the NCAA decided to hammer half the SEC power schools at one time, I suppose this could happen.

But I could see a day when 2 of the4 are elite and 2 others very good at the same time. Unfortunately, Nebraska is good but not a shell of its classic self......Penn State too.

Something not mentioned in any of these posts is that the Mid Atlantic is probably the ACC's best recruiting area. They already share MD and NJ with Ped State, but the Tidewater area is pretty much locked up. If the B1G takes UVA and UNC, a lot of talent from that area will be heading into the B1G, and the ACC will be left fighting the SEC for kids from Georgia and Florida. Gee, I wonder how that will work out.

 

[Muck]

Something not mentioned in any of these posts is that the Mid Atlantic is probably the ACC's best recruiting area. They already share MD and NJ with Ped State, but the Tidewater area is pretty much locked up. If the B1G takes UVA and UNC, a lot of talent from that area will be heading into the B1G, and the ACC will be left fighting the SEC for kids from Georgia and Florida. Gee, I wonder how that will work out.

To be honest I think the chance of Virginia & UNC jumping to the B1G are right about zero or a little lower.

Davey's point about shifting demographics is valid I just think that people greatly overestimate it's influence. I also think that the assumptions that the population shift will continue indefinitely are wrong.

 

[DaveyBoy]

Nebraska is a shell of its former self......on the field and on the recruiting trails. It is decent and maybe even good. I hope they are turning the corner this year to becoming a true challenge to OSU and Michigan in their usual forms. Those Texas players on their roster were either there before the departure from the Big12 or are 2 and 3 star players......not what they used to have. Nebraska traditionally recruited California, Florida, and the Northeast very well. But they aren't the national draw they were before and that is indisputable.

In the last 5 years, Bama alone has had more players drafted in the NFL than all of those teams combined, I bet. It seems half the first rounders are SEC players now.

The last 10 years haven't been kind to the BigTen. In case you haven't noticed, the SEC is starting to out recruit the BigTen for elite players in the Big Ten states. I only see Ohio State and Michigan being able go toe to toe with the SEC in BigTen territory on a consistent basis. Missouri can now recruit stronger in the BigTen region selling "big boy football". I'm not saying I like it, but that's precisely what the SEC is selling .

What does the number of players on ND from California vs Illinois have to do with this? ND once owned Chicago and Cincinnati recruiting. It owns Cincinnati already and can get any elite prospect from Chicago that it wants. You used 10 of the worst years of ND football ever for your comparison.

The BigTen region getting picked apart for elite prospects . The population is either declining or growing much slower than the sunbelt states. The racial statistics don't favor the Midwest at all either.

We need to sell our revenues which lead to great facilities and coaches. We need to open up recruiting grounds to our mid-tier teams. OSU and Mich can recruit nationally.....Nebraska can do OK nationally if they find a coach. But unless they hire coaching staffs from another region, the mid-tier B1G teams are going to struggle on the recruiting trail vs other conferences and get out recruited in their backyard for elite players.

Sure but I'm looking at the numbers over the past ten years, not the 1970's

Nebraska has always recruited nationally as much as anyone and while some have said that moving to the B1G will hurt their long term recruiting in Texas there's no actual evidence to support that hypothesis yet. Currently 20% of their roster hails from Texas.

Nebraska, Minnesota, Wisconsin & Iowa combined have put more players in the NFL over the past ten years than Kentucky, Missouri, Arkansas, Mississippi, Tennessee, South Carolina or Alabama.

Notre Dame has more kids from Cali on the roster than it does Illinois.


No one said they were.