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Big Ten and other Conference Expansion

Which Teams Should the Big Ten Add? (please limit to four selections)

  • Boston College

    Votes: 32 10.2%
  • Cincinnati

    Votes: 19 6.1%
  • Connecticut

    Votes: 6 1.9%
  • Duke

    Votes: 21 6.7%
  • Georgia Tech

    Votes: 55 17.6%
  • Kansas

    Votes: 46 14.7%
  • Maryland

    Votes: 67 21.4%
  • Missouri

    Votes: 90 28.8%
  • North Carolina

    Votes: 39 12.5%
  • Notre Dame

    Votes: 209 66.8%
  • Oklahoma

    Votes: 78 24.9%
  • Pittsburgh

    Votes: 45 14.4%
  • Rutgers

    Votes: 40 12.8%
  • Syracuse

    Votes: 18 5.8%
  • Texas

    Votes: 121 38.7%
  • Vanderbilt

    Votes: 15 4.8%
  • Virginia

    Votes: 47 15.0%
  • Virginia Tech

    Votes: 62 19.8%
  • Stay at 12 teams and don't expand

    Votes: 27 8.6%
  • Add some other school(s) not listed

    Votes: 25 8.0%

  • Total voters
    313
jlb1705;1716688; said:
Is that a Lady GaGa pun? :sick1:

I think it was about this:

sexy-ups-girl.jpg


Being in Texas, I'd love to see UT join the B10, and I've held out hope for it since these rumbling started, but I just don't see it happening. And aTm going to the SEC is being rumored down here as basically being done, just formalities to deal with.
 
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RE: demographics in midwest

Yes, the population might be decreasing, but states like Ohio, Michigan, and Illinois have WAY more people than Louisiana, Mississippi, etc. So it's going to take years for midwest states to become smaller than them.

Also, many of those sun belt states rank very low in income.
 
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Conference shuffling about more than money - College Football - Rivals.com

Dan Wetzel's column on Yahoo!

For all the talk about money, the issue that will most impact actual football games is recruiting.
Wetzel, as he often is, is completely wrong here. Quite honestly, the national columnists are missing so much here and I find it hard to believe that they can be quite so full of themselves or this dumb.

The issue is securing as much in the ways of revenue while being able to keep your foundation as a university. Texas wants to maintain great athletics, a bit of tradition, and their high-echelon academic profile. Which conferences best fit that profile for them, well that's up to them. I think it's becoming clearer that tradition is least valued, mostly because its the most dynamic over time. Their rivalries come and go with national prominence and stature... if Texas falls off the pace for a while, like they did in the 90's, those rivalries fall down too. What would happen to their TV revenue (in their current unequal distribution model) and recruiting then? Well, it would suffer, like any university would. But academics remain enduring.

How in the world can Wetzel think this is all about the recruits? Its not. Big-time universities love to recruit big-time prospects but if your coffers are bare, you are going to lose out on them in the long-run.

If it was so inclined it could turn the SEC into a monster that no other league could dream of challenging. More likely it could block the SEC?s efforts to move into the Lone Star State.
The fact that national columnists continue to even speculate that Texas would join the SEC is insanity...

Wetzel cites the insanely high athletic budget for Texas... as though that figure will always be so high relative to every other university. The sky can and probably will fall, its bound to happen eventually. Where will Texas find themselves when it does? In an unequal revenue sharing conference that is desperate to take advantage of them with no academic consortium to bolster your research grants? Or something better?
 
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I also want to add that the scenario of insanely powerful University Presidents, Chancellors and Regents as well as State Legislatures choosing their conference and academic profile to suit the whims of 16-18 year old high-school students who play 'ball real well is only going to damage the school's ability to stay competitive. Both academically and athletically.
 
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Do you agree with this thought from an Aggie fan?

The Big Ten would have been better off going outside its contiguous borders, going to the Big East, and asking South Florida to join. South Florida is located in Tampa Bay (#14 television market), so they would give the Big Ten more television sets, and give them access to recruiting in Florida. This means Big Ten schools could bring in some players who actually run a little faster than paraplegic buffaloes, so they wouldn't be embarassed so badly when they play in future BCS title games. More importantly, South Florida would accept an invitation to join the Big Ten, so they wouldn't go through the humiliation of being rejected by Notre Dame yet again.

Big Ten Expansion Plans Missing Something - I Am The 12th Man

I think those Aggies are preparing themselves for SEC academics.
 
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Conspiracy theory:

The Big Ten/Pac-10, UT attack on A&M and why (very long).

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I am a Florida alum and Gator fan who?s become very interested in the realignment of college football which has begun to take shape. Have tried to follow events as closely as possible. As last week progressed I began to see some things nobody has talked about but lead me to some conclusions which startle me, especially considering that I am not by nature a conspiracy nut.

I believe that the Big Ten and Pac-10 conferences have jointly planned a major upheaval in college athletics, primarily over football and are working very closely together in order to bring it about. Although uncertain, I believe that it?s likely being done with the active complicity of the University of Texas. The goals are simple: both the Big Ten and Pac-10 seek to significantly enlarge their power and influence over college athletics and do so in a way that isolates the Southeastern Conference, in recent years the best athletic conference in the America. The Big Ten/Pac-10 have, in my view, consciously decided and have engaged in a course of conduct to destroy the Big 12 Conference, largely because it?s in the way. Thus far only there is only one thing which has prevented this plan from being successfully executed.

Texas A&M University.

A&M?s current indecision over whether to join UT in the Pac-10 or join the SEC, assuming the Big 12 can?t be saved, has forced both conferences to make changes in the original plan. There?s tremendous pressure being put on A&M to join the Pac-10 because the entire Big Ten/Pac-10 plan will fail to achieve its full goal if it doesn?t join the Pac-10: increased power to both conferences while at the same time isolating and minimizing the SEC.

When the Big 10 first announced expansion plans months ago interest focused on Notre Dame which rather quickly stated its desire to remain a football independent. Beyond that the initial media coverage focused on one (1) Big 12 school, the University of Missouri and several schools in the Big East. The interest in the latter was, ostensibly, to gain the Big Ten access to the New York City TV market. It all made sense. It was all a farce. The Big 12 school targeted by the Big Ten was Nebraska. The Pac 10 was also initiating expansion plans, though far more quietly. Its goal: expand to sixteen (16) teams all from the Big 12. The goal of both conferences was to destroy the Big 12 and gain power as a result. They are very close to succeeding.

As things moved on there was almost simultaneous disclosure of the Big Ten?s interest in Nebraska and the Pac-10?s interest in Colorado, schools in Texas and Oklahoma. During Big 12?s recent administrative meetings two significant (2) things occurred: First, the ?rest? of the Big 12 imposed a deadline on Colorado, Missouri and Nebraska by which time each was required to state whether it intended to remain a Big 12 member (the deadline was originally thought to be Friday, June 11th, though some suggested it could be as late as Tuesday, June 15th; Second, word started spreading that while the Big 12 could survive the loss of Colorado or Missouri or both, it could not survive if Nebraska decided to go elsewhere.

Both the deadline and the ?we must keep Nebraska or we die? ideas were lead by one (1) school: Texas.

1. Why Nebraska? Yes, it has a rich tradition, especially in football, but if the Big 12 could survive Colorado or Missouri or both, why couldn?t it survive if just Nebraska left? ANSWER: Because it creates a self-fulfilling prophecy. If you?re going to publicly destroy something like the Big 12, it helps if you can justify it in advance. It also helps to create the illusion that Texas wanted to keep the Big 12 alive.

When Nebraska?s Chancellor addressed the university?s Board of Regents meeting on Friday, June 11th, he related a discussion he?d had at the Big 12 meeting in which he essentially asked three (3) questions: What happens if Missouri leaves? Big 12 schools thought the conference would survive. What happens if Colorado leaves? The Big 12 survives. What happens if Nebraska leaves? Oh, that?s different, if Nebraska leaves the Big 12 collapses.
At the same Board of Regents meeting Athletic Director (and former football coach) Tom Osborne stated that when Nebraska officials grilled other Big 12 schools some admitted (I?d be shocked if Texas wasn?t one of them) talking to as many as three (3) other conferences while Nebraska had only talked to one (1), the Big Ten. As a result Nebraska officials thought they had no choice but to find a new place to land. That is exactly what one (1) of those schools wanted Nebraska to think, so the Huskers? leaving the Big 12 would cover the tracks of other schools when they deserted the Big 12. That school is Texas. If you?re going to destroy something in which you belong, it helps if you can blame someone else.

2. When Texas and Texas A&M officials met on Monday, June 8th, to discuss saving the Big 12, was that the real goal of the meeting? ANSWER: No, the real goal, at least from UT?s view, was to convince Texas A&M to join UT, Texas Tech, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State and Colorado in the new mega-conference Pac-10. Problems arose because A&M officials weren?t sold on the idea and wanted to look at other options.

Texas (the Big Ten & Pac-10) assumed that A&M officials could be cajoled into following UT?s lead because in many matters A&M has done so in the past. Of course by now the cat is out of the bag on the Pac-10?s plans with other Big 12 schools. Baylor University is going to be left out (because the Pac 10 doesn?t want Baylor) and efforts begin in Austin to see if Baylor can be substituted for Colorado in the new Pac-10 mega-conference.

3. Why does it matter to UT if Texas A&M joins the Pac-10? There?s the historical relationship of the two schools, as institutions of higher learning in Texas and the athletic rivalry. However, neither has anything to do with it. ANSWER: Texas needs to get Texas A&M on board to prevent the SEC from gaining any foothold in Texas. The Big Ten/Pac-10 plan calls for the Big Ten to extend is domination from the Midwest into major TV markets of the East while the Pac-10 becomes the preeminent conference west of the Mississippi River. To accomplish that, the Pac-10 must add the entire state of Texas to prevent the SEC from expanding its territory and its influence.

Saving Baylor University actually played into the Big Ten/Pac-10 cover story which became even more important when Texas A&M insisted on looking at alternatives to Pac-10 membership.

4. Why was Colorado, surprisingly invited to the Pac-10 earlier than expected and prior to Nebraska? Why was Colorado taken out of turn? ANSWER: To put pressure on Texas A&M. Although never conceded as such, almost everybody in the media and elsewhere assumed the Pac-10?s invitation to Colorado last Thursday was to stop any pro-Baylor efforts in Texas, AND any pressure on UT to make a Pac-10 invitation to Baylor a condition of its willingness to go to the Pac-10. It was the perfect cover story.

The Pac-10 doesn?t want Baylor and never has, but adding Colorado just prior to the Big Ten-Nebraska engagement did two things: First, if anybody tried to blame either the Big Ten or the Pac-10, each can claim that initially they took only one (1) Big 12 team; Second, when Nebraska did leave the following day, Texas can say that, despite its best efforts, the Big 12?s days are over and that Texas A&M better get on board with its fellow flagship university partner and join the Pac-10. Why? To stop the SEC from entering Texas by adding a major school from Texas to its conference lineup. The Pac-10 and Big Ten don?t want the SEC in Texas. One of their common goals is to reduce the SEC?s power by denying it expansion that helps the SEC grow.

5. Why, after wooing Missouri for months, did the Big Ten?s Commissioner tell his Big 12 counterpart after confirming Nebraska?s invitation to join his conference that the Big Ten didn?t anticipate adding any other Big 12 schools to his conference? ANSWER: Because Texas A&M?s interest in options beside the Pac-10 has created instability the Big Ten/Pac-10 can?t control. Adding to that instability only creates more chances that it gets worse. And, remember, because of Texas A&M, things aren?t going according to the original plan.

Nebraska?s exit from the Big 12 confirms UT?s self-fulfilling prophecy that the Big 12 is dead. It?s not that the Big Ten isn?t still interested in Missouri. However, because of Texas A&M?s position, it now makes more sense for the Big Ten & Pac 10 to split any responsibility for the Big 12?s demise; allow Texas to lead Texas Tech, Oklahoma and Oklahoma State to the Pac-10 under the ruse that the Big 12 is no longer viable; then when the Big 12 collapses the Big Ten can still invite Missouri which, technically won?t be a Big 12 school because the Big 12 is either already gone or officially on the road to self-extinction.

6. Why has ABC-TV been so quiet in all of this? The network has television rights to the Big 12 and stands to lose a lot, correct? ANSWER: Wrong, it does not because it?s also the primary TV partner of both the Pac-10 and Big Ten. If this goes according to plan, money that would have gone to the Big 12 for distribution will now mostly go to the Pac-10 with some to the Big Ten. Chances are ABC (and its subsidiary, ESPN) will lose little or nothing in this massive upheaval. Instead ABC will just be shuffling off roughly the same amount of money into different conferences. There is also a major gain for ABC in that it?s prior relationships with both the Big Ten and Pac-10 are more significant because both conferences become far more powerful.

ESPN puts major investigative reporters on Barry Bonds and other significant sports issues. College football is undergoing the most massive change in its history and ESPN is doing nothing but covering the basics of who?s going where. Why? Because any serious outside investigation of the realignment of college athletics might expose the possibility that ESPN?s parent company, ABC, is involved in this plan. The Big Ten/Pac-10 want to beat back the SEC. ABC wants to beat back CBS which is the SEC?s television partner.

7. Why has the Pac-10 imposed a 72-hour deadline on Texas A&M while its commissioner personally hands out invitations this weekend to Texas, Texas Tech, Oklahoma and Oklahoma State? ANSWER: Because time is of the essence regarding the overall plan, but especially the Big Ten?s portion of the plan.

In order for the Big Ten to pressure Notre Dame into accepting a Big Ten invitation, the conference must destabilize ND?s comfort zone. To do that it must seek new members from the Big East conference which houses most of Notre Dame?s non-football athletic teams. Pittsburgh, Syracuse and Rutgers are the schools most often mentioned by the media. However, if that happens, the Big East becomes unstable and, likely seeks some sort of merger with the Atlantic Coast Conference. Two (2) Texas newspapers, citing SEC sources, indicated that the SEC?s dream expansion scenario involves Texas, Texas A&M, North Carolina-Chapel Hill and Duke. Media reports confirm that the SEC has talked with UNC and that it didn?t say ?no.? Neither has it said yes.

8. Why is the SEC?s dream scenario important in all this? ANSWER: Because a major goal of the Big Ten/Pac-10 plan is to prevent any significant SEC expansion into any non-SEC states.

Because of Texas A&M?s unwillingness to blindly follow UT?s lead in the western portion of the Big Ten/Pac-10 plan, everything has bogged down. That must be controlled in a way that forces A&M to follow UT into the Pac-10. If not, the SEC makes inroads into Texas and Texas TV markets. Destabilizing the Big East by the Big Ten could lead ACC schools to do what Nebraska did and seek other options. If SEC adds Texas A&M as a conference school, that is bad for both the Big Ten and Pac-10. However, if the SEC adds A&M, North Carolina and Duke (a 4th school would need to be added as well), a major goal of the plan is a total failure. Adding those three (3) schools to the SEC not only makes it the best football conference in the U.S., but also the best men?s basketball conference. Further, Notre Dame probably correctly reads the long term consequences of such events and, again, decides to stay an independent, thus ruining another basic goal of the Big Ten portion of the plan. There are six (6) major college athletic conferences in the United States: the Big East, Atlantic Coast, Southeastern, Big Ten, Big 12 and Pac-10. The plan by the Big Ten/Pac-10 calls for one (1) of those conferences (Big 12) to be destroyed, two (2) others (Big East and ACC) to be destabilized towards a merger, and one (1) more (SEC) to be isolated so it can?t adequately respond to the two (2) new power conferences in America (the Big Ten and Pac-10). Hell, it?s almost like the old days when the Rose Bowl was the premier New Year?s Day game and was controlled by the same two (2) conferences.

9. Is there any more pressure that can be put on Texas A&M to join the Pac-10? ANSWER: Yes and it?s already happening. Without saying so publically (who knows what?s been said behind the scenes directly to Texas A&M), Texas is threatening to end its rivalry with the Aggies. Major newspapers in both Dallas and Houston, Sunday, are reporting that and other consequences if A&M doesn?t play ball. One paper suggests other Texas schools will blackball A&M if it doesn?t join the Pac-10. In other words play ball with us or pay.

Once again, Texas is setting up another self-fulfilling prophecy. 1: If Nebraska goes to the Big Ten, the Big 12 is dead and its Nebraska?s fault. 2: We did everything we could to save the Big 12, but now that it?s gone, we have no choice but to join the Pac-10. 3: We really want to maintain our rivalry with Texas A&M. However, if the Aggies don?t follow us to the Pac-10, the rivalry is no longer viable and it?s Texas A&M?s fault.

10. What?s going to happen next? ANSWER: I don?t know unless Texas A&M bows to UT?s pressure. If that happens, the second phase of the plan will begin to destabilize the Big East in order to force Notre Dame to join the Big Ten. At that point every other conference in America will be directly threatened by the Big Ten/Pac-10 reconfiguration of college athletics.

My purpose here isn?t to influence any Texas A&M decision. To me A&M going to the Pac-10 makes little sense and -at best- is the worst of three (3) options. The other two are joining the SEC or making a real effort to save the Big 12 in a reconfigured form by attacking and exposing UT?s apparent complicity in the Big Ten/Pac-10 plan.

In conclusion, let me reiterate that I?m not a conspiracy freak. However, in this instance too many things have happened too quickly not to believe they are being orchestrated by someone or some group of people. I know the Big 12?s money distribution system of revenues was flawed. It contributed both to internal conference strife and to its apparent demise. However, the Big 12 could be salvaged and re-configured if people so wanted. I believe Texas A&M sincerely has tried to do so. I also believe the University of Texas has been complicit in the Big 12?s destruction in order to advance its own interests and that of two (2) athletic conferences. One of those goals is the continued subjugation of Texas A&M.

Texas A&M must find the best long term answer to the situation it now faces. It should understand fully the circumstances in which it finds itself and how they came about. I sincerely wish A&M the best because whatever decision A&M makes will likely change for decades the makeup of college athletics. It ought to know why it is presently under siege and who is responsible for doing so. And it should realize that by simply doing what is every American?s right ? the right to question and seek alternatives, Texas A&M finds itself in its current position at the very center of the future of college athletics and under the watchful, threatening eyes of others who care nothing about the university, but only what it can do for them.

Good luck and God speed.
 
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lvbuckeye;1716726; said:
interesting read. it would be nice if you supplied a link and cited a source. :wink:

I actually don't have it...I live in St.Louis now and got it off a St.Louis sports message board (with Mizzou fans suicidal)...here is how he cited it:

For those who like conspiracy theories, this was pulled from an A&M board. It's a FLA fan who's really done some thinking... probably too much. Still, it's interesting to think about. Warning... as you see... it's a long read.
 
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BrowardBuck;1716418; said:
I'm not sure where I read it sometime in the last couple of weeks, where someone was bemoaning the B10 for not going after OU with UT. But I swear I read someplace that their academics were not actually bad and were improving. I think this COULD be an interesting move. If the B10 can find a way to get past the perception of poor academics at OU and make an offer to both UT and OU, along with the offer to ND, the conference could HELP OU become a better academic institution to the point of being in a position to apply for membership in the AAU.

Unfortunately, I don't think the B10 is going to go in that direction. So, it boils down to either UT and A&M with ND or just UT. As much as many of the B10 schools pride themselves on giving athletes a second chance to prove themselves, I would think they could do the same with a uni that is moving up with their academic standards. Not sure if the academically minded within the other B10 schools would agree to add a team like OU though.

However, if the goal is to expand south and the only option available to do that is to offer OU along with UT, I think it is work the risk. The rewards could be off the charts and if OU isn't able to make the grade over say the next 10 years, they go bye bye. However, with the help of the other schools, I think OU could improve significantly to the point of a potential AAU membership.

*shrug* Of course, I am a nobody OSU fan. What do I know!

BB

I guess the issue is that it is a lot easier to buy a football coach and recruit a good team than to build a world-class research university, especially if you are geographically as distant from the major research centers as Oklahoma.

Universities are not interested in building scholarly competency to further the aims of a football team. Universities are about building their research and teaching capacity for the intrinsic educational value that they deliver to the students and thus the larger community. Football teams are secondary considerations and that is the way it should be.
 
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Texas has been my favorite since this discussion began. I like the University, which has strong academics. I like the fans and tradition, which is very similar to Ohio State. I just like Texas hands down better than any other university as a new member prospect for the Big Ten.

Texas is not worth any concessions or special case. If they want to come into the Big Ten, then the equal partner tradition is what they buy into. The conference schedule is what they buy into. If they don't want to buy into that, then fine, see you in bowl games occasionally.

No concessions.
 
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