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Buckeye Offensive Coordinator Discussion (merged)

All right I got up at 4 and watched some tape from the previous years.

It ain't coaching or playcalling. Executation is the key word. It's been peat and repeated in this thread already. When the offense starts working as a cohesive unit all on the same page, watch out!
 
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All right I got up at 4 and watched some tape from the previous years.

It ain't coaching or playcalling. Executation is the key word. It's been peat and repeated in this thread already. When the offense starts working as a cohesive unit all on the same page, watch out!

Okay, then ask the next question...why do different groups of players over different years and different offensive schemes all have execution problems?

It all gets back to coaching no matter which school of thought you subscribe to. FritoBandito nailed it on the head, JT needs to clean house on the offensive side, hire talented coaches and let them work.
 
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Would you rather have a 38-35 loss, but the offense plays well?

See I think this is the point you all are missing. We have the defense to hold a team like Texas to 20 points or less. We have the TALENT on offense to score 40 on them. We had no business losing that game. Just because we have an incredible defense, doesnt mean there wont be times where we have to score points to win. Which sounds better to you, 2-1, or 3-0? :biggrin:

And everybody keeps bringing up that it isnt coaching, it's execution. So tell me, has it been execution the past 4 years as well? Negative.
 
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Poor execution on offense (with some exceptions) over the last four years points to coaching.

Excellent execution on defense is also due to coaching. Bandito brings up a great point. When was the last time that one of the offensive coaches was being considered for ANY job at ANY other school?

Meanwhile we lose our Defensive Coordinator and one of two defensive coaches every other year.

Lack of execution does fall on the players during games, but why is this lack of execution there at all? Players play the way that they are coached to play. Jim Tressel has a HUGE fault and it is incredible loyalty to those who are close to him.

If the offense performs poorly this week then all the excuses are gone. There is no hangover this week and the players should be ready to eat nails after the beating they took at the hands of Iowa last season.

A bad performance by the offense this year and Daniels and Bollman need to resign to save their friend the pain of having to fire them.
 
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And everybody keeps bringing up that it isnt coaching, it's execution. So tell me, has it been execution the past 4 years as well? Negative.
Execution drops balls, misses assignments, misses blocks...not coaching. If I had to bet, I would wager Hamby and Ginn catch about everything in practice and the OL blocks like hell. However, there is a world of difference when that stadium fills up and players are flying at you with bad intentions.

Coaching puts you in a position to win games...but players must do the rest.

This staff has put us in position to win games.

Coaching is a never-ending process of working to get better via adjustments and learning...some things work, some things you scrap.

If JT started taking more risks and it lead to more turnovers and more stress on the defense...people would find something else to complain about.
 
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Poor execution on offense (with some exceptions) over the last four years points to coaching.

Excellent execution on defense is also due to coaching. Bandito brings up a great point. When was the last time that one of the offensive coaches was being considered for ANY job at ANY other school?

Meanwhile we lose our Defensive Coordinator and one of two defensive coaches every other year.

Lack of execution does fall on the players during games, but why is this lack of execution there at all? Players play the way that they are coached to play. Jim Tressel has a HUGE fault and it is incredible loyalty to those who are close to him.

If the offense performs poorly this week then all the excuses are gone. There is no hangover this week and the players should be ready to eat nails after the beating they took at the hands of Iowa last season.

A bad performance by the offense this year and Daniels and Bollman need to resign to save their friend the pain of having to fire them.


While I'm not jumping onto the clean-out the offensive out-house bandwagon - I am forced to ask...

How far into the offensive staff would such wholesale re-tooling go? To be specific, does your thinking include that close Tressel family member the RB coach?

Further, if such changes are merited for the future good of the program -- WHEN should such changes occur, bearing in mind the present good for the program?

The first seems to me to be pretty obvious if you are of the mindset that the offensive assistants and coordinators need to change, and given the debatable improvements in our running game, then would not Dick's head also be on the chopping block? Talk about a really tough call for Jim Tressel.

The second is more delicate. Changing now would impose a radical strain on the staff, and likely be far more detrimental to the current season, let alone player development. Thus, it seems to me that even if O-coordinator or assistant changes are merited, it becomes somewhat of a moot point for this year.

One also must consider the reins of power -- how much influence does an Ohio State Offensive Coordinator truly have, it is after all often asserted that Jim is THE one calling the plays. Have we actually seen the fruits of a true offensive coordinator at Ohio State since (say) Walt Harris and his ilk were on campus?

In summary, the time for change, if change was needed, was in the off-season. The time for future change, if that change is merited, is after this season, not during the same. Lastly, the question of whether such change is at all merited is thoroughly confounded by the true degree of freedom enjoyed by our current staff of coordinators and assistants to design game-plans and call plays in drives.
 
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Execution drops balls, misses assignments, misses blocks...not coaching. If I had to bet, I would wager Hamby and Ginn catch about everything in practice and the OL blocks like hell. However, there is a world of difference when that stadium fills up and players are flying at you with bad intentions.

5 years of it? I dont see how we can possibly have 5 years of recruits having the same problems. Coaching is what teaches players to execute, and puts the players in the position to make plays. You are telling me that USC's offensive players are just far and away better than Ohio State's?

And if that IS the case, then I guess Tress cannot recruit offensive talent. :)

This is a really fun discussion :biggrin:
 
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"Let's see how the year progresses before we start getting upset though. I'll gladly take a 2-0 win over Iowa this week. Would you rather have a 38-35 loss, but the offense plays well?"

I fail to understand this logic. Why do these arguements lead to "I'd rather win 3-0 than win 48-45, or lose 35-32"? How do we come to the conclusion that the D will automaticly give up more points, if we had a better Offense? It's not logical.

Scoring lets you Kick-off, ball around the 20, seem like you're winning the field position battle to me. You make the oppositions Offense one dimensional, plus the D gets more rest with better ball control - fresher. My thought is that we could have become a USC type of dynasty team, with some help from the offense, before they did. We're close to it, but.....

All I want is a balanced offense that can put up TD drives whenever they want. To put fear into to opposition that we can score at will, instead of confidence that merely stacking the line will stop us, more often than not.

I wanna scare teams that play us. Have little hope that they have a chance in Hell of beating us. Crush some wills, not let the game come down to the last drive, every other game. We have the talent to do it, but all we have are excuses.

I'll step down from the soap-box, before I crush it :biggrin:
 
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5 years of it? I dont see how we can possibly have 5 years of recruits having the same problems. Coaching is what teaches players to execute, and puts the players in the position to make plays. You are telling me that USC's offensive players are just far and away better than Ohio State's?

You don't have 5 years of it. You have instances of it that snowball into the groupthink, playstation highlight film mentality.

It is a philosophy of winning and managing a game...minimizing risk and minimizing the negative possibilities. Is it boring to watch...yes. Are the end results what matter...yes.

As for USC, Leinart and Bush are better than anyone on tOSU's roster...by far. Everyone talks about tOSU's weapons...we have potential weapons that have yet to do jack. The easiest solution is to blame it on the coaching...

The defense has been stellar for 4 1/2 years with a variety of coaches...are they all excellent coaches or are the best football players on that side of the ball? I did not ask about better athletes...better football players.

To me, winning is winning. I understand completely what you guys are saying and part of me agrees and wishes for the days of Walt and co. However, then I remember how many times that philosophy left too many variables in the game...too many to overcome.

Of course I disagree with things that happen on the field...but I am happy with the end result.

BMax I already gave you rep for this discussion that has run over to about 4 threads now...great discussion.
 
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Yeah I returned the rep. I am not arguing just to argue, have enjoyed these discussions.

I think the whole argument would be pointless had we beat Texas. My main feeling is that if we had a true power running back, our offense would be about 80X what it is now. Hopefully Wells will give that to us soon :biggrin:

I love a defensive game. I also believe in the philosophy that natural spread offensive teams will never win anything major, because there are too many mistakes in that offense. The team with the strong defense is always going to have an advantage. I hope to see our offense come around. You know the potential is there. Watch the scUM game from last year, then watch the Alamo. Just need everything to come together.
 
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Agreed completely. If I was going to question anything offensively, it would be recruiting to that offensive philosophy. We are missing the bruiser (Schnittker is not going to get it done IMO and MoC debacle put us in a hole), the TE to stretch the field (Izzy hurt there), or a QB who has taken control of the team.
 
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BMax,
I will keep coming back to any forum you post in just to see those pics again. :bow:

I just can't figure out why the offense has been so inept if it isn't the coaching. I guess we can argue that it's the players, but coaches recruit and then coach the players with the expectation that those players will develop.

It just doesnt' seem to me that the offensive gameplans are there to see what Ohio State's offensive talent can do. Why not throw the ball deep and see what happens? Worst case scenario it gets intercepted and the Buckeyes dominant D is back on the field.

It just doesn't look crisp. It looks like the players have no idea what's going on from one play to the next.
 
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YSU, I am not saying coaching is perfect...it never will be on any team. I'd love to see some tendency breakers every now and then.

Hey it could be worse, you could be the guy on BN$ calling for everyone to email Gene Smith demanding a new OC.

:biggrin:
 
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Execution drops balls, misses assignments, misses blocks...not coaching. If I had to bet, I would wager Hamby and Ginn catch about everything in practice and the OL blocks like hell. However, there is a world of difference when that stadium fills up and players are flying at you with bad intentions.

Coaching puts you in a position to win games...but players must do the rest.

This staff has put us in position to win games.

Coaching is a never-ending process of working to get better via adjustments and learning...some things work, some things you scrap.

If JT started taking more risks and it lead to more turnovers and more stress on the defense...people would find something else to complain about.

If talented players continue to have poor execution it most certainly does fall to the coaches. The 02-03 group had what a half a dozen NFL players on offense? How many do you think are on here currently? Simms, Mangold, Ginn, Holmes at the very minimum. With that type of talent are we are supposed to believe its o.k. to be in the bottom 20% of D1 football for going on 4 years now? The coaches are ultimately responsible for a lack of production, period.

Was it the players fault everytime Cooper lost to scUM? We saw that wasn't the case once Tress took Coops players and beat scUM in his first crack at them. I'm not calling for JT's head, I wouldn't trade him for any coach in America. I'm saying he needs a quality offensive staff and let them do their job.
 
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The coaches are ultimately responsible for a lack of production, period.

How many balls did JT drop? How many blocks did he miss? I would bet my life savings these guys were thoroughly coached via film and practice...yet they did not get it done. How is that JT's fault? Ultimately, you can blame the coach. Realistically, the player failed to carry out his assignment.

Was it the players fault everytime Cooper lost to scUM?

In some instances yes, in others he mismanaged the game, in others he did not have his team ready...again, lack of execution.

I guess I should also say "period" now so I can show how vehemently I believe in my opinion...but I won't because I enjoy both sides of this debate. So instead, I'll just say "Piss off Jax." :wink2:
 
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