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Did we really get "killed?" (a complete evaluation of our let-downs, 1st half 21-3)

Look, I'm not unwilling to prove my point, but what is there to prove. Even before the INT for a touchdown we were still down by 11. At that point, the game was over. We only put together one consistent drive the whole night. Yes, I know we got to the red zone and had penalties, but what makes it a consistent drive is well..not having penalties.
 
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I agree with basis of CausticMick's argument, that talent-wise, there wasn't that much of a disparity. This is clear by illustrating a couple of points:

1). We were able to drive on SC's defense in the first half when the outcome was still being determined. As good as SC's defense is, no one is going to mistaken them for Jonathon Vilma, Sean Taylor, DJ Williams, Antrell Rolle, Jerome McDougal, Davin Joseph or Vince Wilfork (yes, we actually played beat this defense with a gizillion 1st rounders), these guys made Krenzel pay. Yet Pryor was going downfield ten yards before being touched, and not even going full speed. Heck, they didn't even shut down a young guy like Boom, who was a little jittery and impatient, which hindered his vision. So the notion that our offensive talent precluded us from victory is inaccurate.

2). As much as the lack of line play hurt us, it was the missed tackles in the backfield against McKnight that really did us in. Granted, making tackles has never been a strength of this team. But I think that goes to coaching or attitude more than just talent. We had the DBs to hang with them.

As far as second half performance, our only drive that mattered ended in a three and out on three very predicable plays. After the score was 28-3, both teams lost interest.

So basically, the talent disparity is not as great as the score indicates. Even though we could've been helped by a erasing a couple of mistakes here and there, what really did us in was that we actually believed that we had to establish a passing game to beat these guys, which is not only untrue, but also engendered playcalling and personnel usage that ended up playing to the strengths of the opponent and the weaknesses of the team. That should be on the coaches.
 
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Pula_86;1262917; said:
Look, I'm not unwilling to prove my point, but what is there to prove. Even before the INT for a touchdown we were still down by 11. At that point, the game was over. We only put together one consistent drive the whole night. Yes, I know we got to the red zone and had penalties, but what makes it a consistent drive is well..not having penalties.


Please do... really. Not calling you out, but on our last pick (13:10 left in the 4th) USC was in a cover 2 where the safety and corner switched responsibilities. Very risky. The safety came up, and picked off the pass while the corner went back to play the safety's half of the field. I can understand TB being confused, but the announcers acted like he was horrible on that play. I actually defend Todd there. Tough read. Don't buy into the BS that Mussberger and Herbsellout spouted. I love Mussberger, but he has no clue. I think I love him in a Keith Jackson kind of way... he's just a classic.
 
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I agree with some of what the poster says. I won't say anything about penalties because it's silly to worry about that unless it's blatant, but there are things that happened which totally cahnged the game. THis team is maddening because it is so close to keeping these games close and winning them, but they continue to make stupid mistakes.

I also thought it was closer at the half than the score indicated. OSU was able to drive on USC's D, but yet again in big games, they broke down in the red zone. You cannot do this and beat elite teams. Cannot. It should have been a 17-10 or so game at the half.

Also, as much as many like to complain about the D, OSU's offense and punt team simply continue to but OSu's D in horrible positions time after time. You can't expect the D to keep a machine of an offense from getting points when tehy start on OSU's freaking 40 yd line. This has been a problem since the Florida game in 2006.

I get upset with some fans because OSU stays with teams in the first half, but lets situations snow ball and refguses to step up. THere are not that many huge problems and some are trying to find things to worry about that actually are not issues.

I will agree that line play is a problem, specifically on the DL, but the OL gave Todd decent protection sometimes and even very good protection but tehn falls apart for some reason later in teh game.

Here are the key things that need to be fixed if OSU wants to get over the humps and beat elite teams and win NCs. They're actually quite simple:

1. Get pressure from the DL. Something is wrong with the DL. I was sure they would get pressure on a green QB and OL, but they did not and OSU was forced to bring pressue, freeing up areas that Sanchez could throw to. You can also add the OL here, ut IMO, it's more of a consistentcy issue with them Good protection one play, breakdown or holding call on another.

2. Win the turnover margin. In the last 3 big game blowouts, OSU is -2 in each game. The turnovers are also crucial in creating points for the other team. USC got a pick 6, LSU got a shot field, and Florida got multiple short fields against OSU in the title game because of it.

3. At least have equal field position with the opposing team. You cannot lose the battle by 22 yards or more like the past 3 big games. OSU cannot continue to lose this part of the game. Laugh at Tressel all you want, but the punt is crucial in forcing teams to go an extra 20 yards or more to score. I wasn't laughing when Trappaso made several bad punts to give USC great field position. You can't expect OSU to beat elite opponents when teh opposing team has to go only 60 yards for a score, but OSU has to go 82 yards for a score. That is a huge difference.

4. Execute and convert in the Red Zone. Absolutely crucial to any game against elite competition. You will not win games against teams that have great offenses like USC or Oklahoma if you do not score TDs in the red zone. Bitch all you want about the 02 offense, but they converted in the red zone. Against Miami Krenzel had 2 1 yd runs for TDs and Clarret had 2 runs of no more than 5 yds I think. This along with the Mind game part is probably the most important.

5. The Mind game. As much as people want to comment about the speed of teams and the star ratings of their players, they forget to mention teh mental aspect of the game, which, IMO, is more important than any of the later points. OSU has great talent, but mentally they are still playing with many mistakes that force them to kick FGs instead of TDs and kill drives instead of converting 3rd downs. This is crucial. And when OSU gets down, I see no fighting spirit. The last 3 big game beat downs had taken their toll on this team mentally and I don't know ho wit will affect the way they play the rest of the year. Elite teams are mentally elite and tough.

It is also frustrating because it almost feels like this team is afraid to take that extra step and be as good as they could be. This team had enormous potential coming back with 20 returning starters, but it just seems like they refuse to take that step to become elite and cement themselves in OSU history. It's not about speed or strength or talent, those guys have it, but they seem to not have that confidence to become elite. It's not the tough stuff that they lack in, but the easy stuff, simple stuff, like seniors false starting, holding on crucial plays, not executing, playing scared, lacking poise and direction. It's the mental step they need to take to become elite and right now they don't have it yet.

There will always be a faster and better team physically. Right now USC has marvelous talent. Guys like Williams, Sanchez, McKnight, Malaluga are unbelieveable in the physical department and McKnight made me stare at how fast and fluid he is. But none of that seems to matter if you are mentally prepared. When you can finally let go of the impossible part and understand that you can beat the other team no matter what, it doesn't matter how fast or how strong the opponent is, because you will always be faster and stronger. The 2002 team seemed to understand that, but unfortunately the 2008 team does not. Hopefully they eventually will.

#6 is wildcard Pryor. Right now, believe it or not, Pryor is already better at this point in his career than guys like Vince Young, Reggie Bush, Sam Bradford, Tim Tebow, etc in their respective first couple games in their freshman years (in some cases because he is actually playing rather than redshirting). He's a true freshman that was able to gash USC in some plays even when they knew what was coming. He is developing faster than I thought he would and made much more of a difference than I thought he would against USC. If he can keep his mental abilities such as competiveness, composure (incredible against USC as a frosh) spirit, leadership that he has now, there is no question in my mind that he could leave OSU as one of the best players in OSU and in college football history.
 
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I don't think that anyone is disputing that USC's D is tough or they can confuse. The problem after watching lots of USC tape myself here on the west coast, is that that coverage is not uncommon. For a sixth year senior QB, Todd should have known there. Sometimes it is better to take and sack or throw the ball away.
 
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1926... Very in-depth post with some good points. Thank you for the significant contribution. I have to say, with 5 minutes left (and in) we still gave up sacks. And don't forget, Terrell took a snap(s) unexpectedly in which he picked up and threw a nice completion(s). And don't forget how hard Boom ran in the 4th. :)
 
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First half was closer than 21-3. I think maybe 14-6 would be more representitive of how close it was. If you want to go real crazy 14-10. But that's getting nuts. But then...the second half was not as close as 14-0. I'd say the second half could have been more like 28-0. So...if you want to go by crazy what could have been scoring...then I guess yeah it was close at the half. Let's say 14-10 at half. Final score 42-10. Hmmm still lose by 32. We were the worst team in the world in the second half. Moving on....
 
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billmac91;1262899; said:
I thought it was within reach, but asking if the game was actually closer is a bit over the top to me.....good teams don't make the mistakes we did, that is why USC rolled us and is a better team.

I'm not doubting for one second who the better team was that night. I agree with your post compeltely.


CausticMick;1262902; said:
I agree BMack, but that's my point as well. We're not a bad team. We were in this game and I think the score should have been different in the first with enforced discliplne. I don't blame it completely on the refs, even though they sucked. Our boys were too excited too early, and that adrenaline wore off when it counted (first half). The big game experience just wasn't there like it should be... and we came out already beat in the second half.

This sums up my position pretty well.

OCBucksFan;1262904; said:
Trying to come up with any reason other than "USC is better than us right now" is just insane.
I agree. I never intended to claim otherwise. Though "sane", so far as I'm aware, has never been used to describe me when talking about the Buckeyes. :biggrin:

#1buckeyestunna;1262905; said:
We got whipped by a better team. Was there a point in the game even when we were down when it looked like we could have gotten back in it? Sure there was, we did not step up and try to take advantage of it. I coach some athletics locally, and I tell my kids great teams and champions step in and make plays when they need to be made. Usc made great play after great play. Hats off to the better team. They were better at every phase of the game mentally and physically then we were. Lets stop making excuses and take our whipping like a man!!!!

I agree. Though questioning ones manhood is a bit extreme. :wink2:



I guess all I'm trying to say is that things are not as bad as some are making them out to be. Football, imo, is determined by things other than talent to a large extent. This team didn't get out-talented so much as we got out hustled.
 
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PC indeed called off the dogs, but that wasn't until the fourth quarter. The first half was markedly closer than the 21-3 score would suggest. The second half was markedly more one-sided than the 14-0 second half points would suggest.
 
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MililaniBuckeye;1262945; said:
PC indeed called off the dogs, but that wasn't until the fourth quarter. The first half was markedly closer than the 21-3 score would suggest. The second half was markedly more one-sided than the 14-0 second half points would suggest.

Agree with this. Like the LSU game, OSU collapsed in the second half. At halftime I felt much better than the score and thought that with effort, OSU could certainly make a game of it and possibly win. OSU had moved the ball in the first half and I thought Pryor was definitely going to break a long TD run. It was crucial though that USC not score very much or at all. OSU had to get some points on the board first. Just didn't happen though. No mental toughness and almost a sigh from the team and after USC went up 28-3 I knew the game was over.

Oh and thanks Mick. I've been telling that to anyone who would listen after th game and end up ranting and raving on message boards haha.

Luckily I feel a little better than Sunday when I hoping that it was a dream or something. Now I just look forward to how the team responds and seeing Pryor develop along with Beanie playing some.:oh:
 
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1926Buckeyes;1262963; said:
Agree with this. Like the LSU game, OSU collapsed in the second half. At halftime I felt much better than the score and thought that with effort, OSU could certainly make a game of it and possibly win. OSU had moved the ball in the first half and I thought Pryor was definitely going to break a long TD run. It was crucial though that USC not score very much or at all. OSU had to get some points on the board first. Just didn't happen though. No mental toughness and almost a sigh from the team and after USC went up 28-3 I knew the game was over.

Luckily I feel a little better than Sunday when I hoping that it was a dream or something. Now I just look forward to how the team responds and seeing Pryor develop along with Beanie playing some.:oh:

:io:
 
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BUCKYLE;1262896; said:
Did no one else feel like this game was easily within reach at halftime? I mean, seriously, am I the only one?


I knew it would take mistake free football, and aggresive defense, but I thought we could come back after the way the defense played in the last 5 minutes of the half.

I'm upset that we basically got 2 TD's called back in the first half but we really did get killed.
 
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CausticMick;1262906; said:
By the way, did they really call off the dogs considering they sacked us time after time in the second? They scored two more TDs? Starters in through the end? Going for 4th down up by 32?

Every possession after that USC's offense was pure vanilla. Run, run, run and more runs...... Really if he wanted to Pete could have named the score........
 
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BUCKYLE;1262896; said:
Did no one else feel like this game was easily within reach at halftime? I mean, seriously, am I the only one?

I thought it was over at halftime. More specifically, I thought it was over after TB threw the pick six to make it 21-3.

I hadn't seen anything in the second half of the UF and LSU games that led me to believe we'd make some halftime adjustments and turn the game around, nor have I seen anything out of TB the last several games to suggest he was going to light up the USC secondary after the break.

I was hoping for a comeback, but I had little faith it would happen. :(
 
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CausticMick;1262906; said:
Not making excuses. I played ball at a high level (past college). In fact, I'll be coaching at the college level next year. Just pointing out ways we can improve and offer hope for those who think we played like garbage. It wasn't as bad as everyone thinks (including me, initially), and we can get better and may even be able to beat this team in the Rose Bowl should they lose a game for a rematch. These guys (USC) may be the National Champs. But our athletes are just as good believe it or not. NFL Scouts think the same, FWIW.

By the way, did they really call off the dogs considering they sacked us time after time in the second? They scored two more TDs? Starters in through the end? Going for 4th down up by 32?

Mick, I hear you and agree on some of your points. However, I think you don't give enough time to discussing the fact that we were outcoached again.

We definitely have the athletes to play with USC and other top flight competition. Where the road parts is in terms of what the coaches have wargamed for and in turn, how we execute that plan.

To wit:

Does it make any sense at all to not go for it on 4th and 2 when down by
28?

Does it make any sense to keep rotating QBs when one is clearly more effective(in this instance) than the other?

Wouldn't it make sense to insert some of our younger weapons on certain packages,as SC likely had no tape on their capabilities?

My background is similar to yours,but hell, even people with no experience could see that when we left the field at half, massive adjustments were in order.
 
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