Greg Schiano (HC Rutgers Scarlet Knights)

[Onebuckfan]

So 2 stars know technique but our 5 stars don't?

That's why bama, LSU, and teams like Clemson know how to play defense. They get 5 stars then coach them.

I think Grinch thought I got 5 stars just roll them out there or he thought they know the basics and is teaching a 400 level course to players who need the 100 and 200 first.

 

[bukIpower]

I have questioned the recruiting standards at LB since 2012 when I saw Zach Boren switch over from FB late in his SR year and instantly solidify the group.

I think they need to turn the dial more in the direction of actual, instinctive LB's and a little less in the direction of SPARQ numbers.

You have to have elite athletes, don't get me wrong, but we see a disturbing track record of under performance at the LB spot the past several years.

Couldn't have said it better... we need to stop ignoring kids from Ohio which would help.

The kid from St Iggy and the kid committed to Iowa are prime examples. I watched their films and they're STUDS. If we dont get them we will see them in a few years wrecking people. Stop trying to win the recruiting natty and get the best kids would help.

 

[pnuts34]

Couldn't have said it better... we need to stop ignoring kids from Ohio which would help.

The kid from St Iggy and the kid committed to Iowa are prime examples. I watched their films and they're STUDS. If we dont get them we will see them in a few years wrecking people.

Disagree with bold. It may be a shock, but football is played throughout the nation, Ohio isn't the only state. And tOSU has actually gotten a number of actual LBs(Hilliard, Jones, Werner, Borland, Booker, Gant, Mitchell, Pope) but they haven't been properly coached. I think a combo of athletes and instinctual LBs is needed in the CFB of today, because LBs better be able to cover in space. A guy like Darron Lee is a prime example of a pure athlete, and I'm sure no Buckeye fan would not have wanted to see him in S&G. Yes, he was a project, but he wasn't a pure, instinctive LB either. The coaches have been doing these kids no favors, and put them in positions to lose rather than have the advantage. There is immense talent in the LB room(and on the defense as a whole) and saying just going after mainly OH kids, isn't the right answer, IMO. Go after the best, regardless of where they're from. And we can have the kid from St. Iggy and the kid committed to Iowa, but if Davis and Schiano are coaching them, it wouldn't matter one bit

 

[bukIpower]

Disagree with bold. It may be a shock, but football is played throughout the nation, Ohio isn't the only state. And tOSU has actually gotten a number of actual LBs(Hilliard, Jones, Werner, Borland, Booker, Gant, Mitchell, Pope) but they haven't been properly coached. I think a combo of athletes and instinctual LBs is needed in the CFB of today, because LBs better be able to cover in space. A guy like Darron Lee is a prime example of a pure athlete, and I'm sure no Buckeye fan would not have wanted to see him in S&G. Yes, he was a project, but he wasn't a pure, instinctive LB either. The coaches have been doing these kids no favors, and put them in positions to lose rather than have the advantage. There is immense talent in the LB room(and on the defense as a whole) and saying just going after mainly OH kids, isn't the right answer, IMO. Go after the best, regardless of where they're from. And we can have the kid from St. Iggy and the kid committed to Iowa, but if Davis and Schiano are coaching them, it wouldn't matter one bit

Fair point... regardless I still we need to give more Ohio kids a chance.

Besides the kids we are talking about aren't scrubs either they're kids who will be successful.

 

[Bestbuck36]

I have questioned the recruiting standards at LB since 2012 when I saw Zach Boren switch over from FB late in his SR year and instantly solidify the group.

I think they need to turn the dial more in the direction of actual, instinctive LB's and a little less in the direction of SPARQ numbers.

You have to have elite athletes, don't get me wrong, but we see a disturbing track record of under performance at the LB spot the past several years.

Bingo!

Exactly the reason why I feel Hilliard needs more play. His instincts seem the best of the bunch but without real game reps, they cant develop. This practice vs game thing thats been brought up with regards to White has me shaking my head. There is a thing such as guys who get it when the lights are on vs on the practice field. I think too many of those guys are relying on their athletic ability vs their instinct and football IQ. Simple things like leverage and gap integrity are the basics. IF guys can't understand that, they can't play regardless how big or fast they are.

 

[Hstead]

I have questioned the recruiting standards at LB since 2012 when I saw Zach Boren switch over from FB late in his SR year and instantly solidify the group.

I think they need to turn the dial more in the direction of actual, instinctive LB's and a little less in the direction of SPARQ numbers.

You have to have elite athletes, don't get me wrong, but we see a disturbing track record of under performance at the LB spot the past several years.

Jax I don't disagree often with your posts, but on LB talent I have to disagree here. The same LBs that appeared to be studs in 2016, mostly Baker, appeared to be dogshit in 2017. Our LB core has only really been iffy the past two years, and last year Davis/Schiano made the same guys that were solid in 2016 look like shit in 2017.

Werner and Browning were both highly sought after, and if Browning had chosen Bama and Werner chosen ND they both would probably be looking like All conference players instead of being out of position and missing.

The talent is there. We have depth. They are not prepared well nor understand how to execute. The two above had incredible instincts at the position in high school. They should be wrecking offenses instead of being called out as not being a good LB.

 

[pnuts34]

Jax I don't disagree often with your posts, but on LB talent I have to disagree here. The same LBs that appeared to be studs in 2016, mostly Baker, appeared to be dogshit in 2017. Our LB core has only really been iffy the past two years, and last year Davis/Schiano made the same guys that were solid in 2016 look like shit in 2017.

Werner and Browning were both highly sought after, and if Browning had chosen Bama and Werner chosen ND they both would probably be looking like All conference players instead of being out of position and missing.

The talent is there. We have depth. They are not prepared well nor understand how to execute. The two above had incredible instincts at the position in high school. They should be wrecking offenses instead of being called out as not being a good LB.

Agreed. I laugh when I see posts questioning the talent, because that’s absolutely ludicrous. I’d put our LB talent against any in the nation. None are put in proper positions, and that’s on the coaches.

 

[buckeyebri]

Jax I don't disagree often with your posts, but on LB talent I have to disagree here. The same LBs that appeared to be studs in 2016, mostly Baker, appeared to be dogshit in 2017. Our LB core has only really been iffy the past two years, and last year Davis/Schiano made the same guys that were solid in 2016 look like shit in 2017.

Werner and Browning were both highly sought after, and if Browning had chosen Bama and Werner chosen ND they both would probably be looking like All conference players instead of being out of position and missing.

The talent is there. We have depth. They are not prepared well nor understand how to execute. The two above had incredible instincts at the position in high school. They should be wrecking offenses instead of being called out as not being a good LB.

Couldn’t agree more. Werner comes from a high quality HS program, the same one that brought us Terry M. These guys are smart kids. Coaching is the big issue here IMHO.

 

[Jaxbuck]

Jax I don't disagree often with your posts, but on LB talent I have to disagree here. The same LBs that appeared to be studs in 2016, mostly Baker, appeared to be dogshit in 2017. Our LB core has only really been iffy the past two years, and last year Davis/Schiano made the same guys that were solid in 2016 look like shit in 2017.

Werner and Browning were both highly sought after, and if Browning had chosen Bama and Werner chosen ND they both would probably be looking like All conference players instead of being out of position and missing.

The talent is there. We have depth. They are not prepared well nor understand how to execute. The two above had incredible instincts at the position in high school. They should be wrecking offenses instead of being called out as not being a good LB.

I wasn't saying they don't have physical talent. They obviously do and, to your point, everyone in America wanted them.

I do question how some of these guys, no matter how poorly coached, can't just instinctively diagnose a play and fill a hole.

Bill Davis can't stop you from reading your keys and making a play. I am not defending Davis by any stretch of the imagination but I haven't seen Zach Boren type instincts in 5-6 years at LB at OSU. Just my imo.


EDIT.. I take it back, Raekwon McMillan was a true Mike LB.

 

[BuckBuckTN]

I wasn't saying they don't have physical talent. They obviously do and, to your point, everyone in America wanted them.

I do question how some of these guys, no matter how poorly coached, can't just instinctively diagnose a play and fill a hole.

Bill Davis can't stop you from reading your keys and making a play. I am not defending Davis by any stretch of the imagination but I haven't seen Zach Boren type instincts in 5-6 years at LB at OSU. Just my imo.


EDIT.. I take it back, Raekwon McMillan was a true Mike LB.

Discipline. Coaching doesn't provide talent; coaching instills the will to improve that talent via discipline. I'm not in the WHAC, but something is missing.... and it's been in decline, as we've all seen, for the last few years.

I'll grant the ZS crap created extra distraction this year, but we're games past that. Discipline.... that makes for successful war and successful football. When it's not there, it's obvious.

We've watched the games. Discipline is lacking. Why? It is Urban Frank Meyer's JOB to find out and fix this. It's not Davis', Schiano's, mine or yours..... it's Meyer's JOB. We can dance around this all we want, but UFM isn't some first year, NAIA coach. He needs to be able to control the program. He's not.

 

[Systems_id]

I wasn't saying they don't have physical talent. They obviously do and, to your point, everyone in America wanted them.

I do question how some of these guys, no matter how poorly coached, can't just instinctively diagnose a play and fill a hole.

Bill Davis can't stop you from reading your keys and making a play. I am not defending Davis by any stretch of the imagination but I haven't seen Zach Boren type instincts in 5-6 years at LB at OSU. Just my imo.


EDIT.. I take it back, Raekwon McMillan was a true Mike LB.

Had I not witness this happen in 2017, I would agree with you 100%.

 

[zincfinger]

Had I not witness this happen in 2017, I would agree with you 100%.

Of course, Jax isn't questioning whether it can happen, he's questioning whether the popular explanation - that it's happening entirely because of substandard coaching - is correct.

And I hear what you're saying, Jax. It seems plausible that part of what we're seeing is a case of too-many-Curtis-Grants-not-enough-Zach-Borens (and I don't mean to disparage Grant, but we saw what happened when Boren stepped in for him). But, to throw some made-up numbers at it, it seems unlikely to me that's more than 20 or 30% of the problem.

 

[pnuts34]

So the B1G championship has been won, and we're yet again champs. How many people still want Coach Schiano canned?

 

[Systems_id]

So the B1G championship has been won, and we're yet again champs. How many people still want Coach Schiano canned?

+1

 

[MGMT]

One game doesn’t do anything for me when looking at a season-long sample size. Sorry. You’re still the weakest link. Good bye.