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Kobe Bryant Saga/Trade Discussion

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Big Papa;869043; said:
Yeah, we are all real stressed out about your "list". It's just a bit moronic. Let me see so by your analogy Michael Jordan should be on your "list". He never won a ring without Phil either. :roll1:
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Wake me when Phil wins a ring without MJ or Shaq. Better yet, let's see him develop a team from scratch and win.
 
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OCBucksFan;869165; said:
Without Wade and Kobe you can say the same for Shaq. How many rings did he have before he came to the Lakers? He was primarily responsible for the first but still, he didn't do it alone.
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And without an offensive line, Joe Montana would never complete a pass. We can go around in circles with this argument.

As far as rings go, Shaq ran into a veteran all-time great in Hakeem. Getting the magic to the playoffs was admirable by itself.

When NBA vets and talking heads talk about building a franchise around one player, Shaq's name comes up all the time. Would you build a franchise around Kobe instead? If not, then Shaq seems to be the more valuable commodity.
 
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jwinslow;869178; said:
And without an offensive line, Joe Montana would never complete a pass. We can go around in circles with this argument.

As far as rings go, Shaq ran into a veteran all-time great in Hakeem. Getting the magic to the playoffs was admirable by itself.

When NBA vets and talking heads talk about building a franchise around one player, Shaq's name comes up all the time. Would you build a franchise around Kobe instead? If not, then Shaq seems to be the more valuable commodity.
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I am not trying to argue who is the more valuable commodity, I am just saying that kobe should not be in this list "players whose individual stats indicate superstardom, yet never seem to win championships." Any Lakers fan will tell you that those 10 banners hanging in Staples center all have one thing in common, we had a great center. That's what you build your team around, Kwame Brown, not a great center :frown2:
 
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OCBucksFan;869165; said:
Without Wade and Kobe you can say the same for Shaq. How many rings did he have before he came to the Lakers? He was primarily responsible for the first but still, he didn't do it alone.
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He's done it without one of the others. Don't kid yourself, he was the main reason the Lakers won 3 rings with him there. He could have won with a host of others playing guard. The same can't be said about Kobe and Wade.

I guess unless you're Jordan, a dominant big man trumps almost everything. And they don't get any more dominant than Shaq was in that time period.
 
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Brutus1;869205; said:
He's done it without one of the others. Don't kid yourself, he was the main reason the Lakers won 3 rings with him there. He could have won with a host of others playing guard. The same can't be said about Kobe and Wade.
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You're right, Kobe did nothing during those three championships :shake:

I don't really see what your debate is, don't get me wrong here, I love Shaq, I still have his jersey, he did a lot for LA and he's an awesome player. I agree, a center should be the cornerstone of your franchise, however, when Shaq left he wasn't exactly being a great player, he was refusing to practice, overweight, and lazy. Top that off with the fact that he was demanding a contract renewal during games, screaming from the court at the Buss family.

So he demanded a trade, it sucked, but it happens. We got crap for it, we should have held out for Wade but if we kept Shaq for the last year of his contract he would have done serious damage to the team. See, if we keep Bryant for this year, he'll still perform, he may open his mouth at every chance, but he'll still perform on the court til his contract expires. Shaq would have been a different story.

It upset me that he got in shape when he went to Miami.
 
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Brutus1;869205; said:
He's done it without one of the others. Don't kid yourself, he was the main reason the Lakers won 3 rings with him there. He could have won with a host of others playing guard. The same can't be said about Kobe and Wade.

I guess unless you're Jordan, a dominant big man trumps almost everything. And they don't get any more dominant than Shaq was in that time period.
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I grew up a Lakers fan and have watched them since the Showtime Era with Kareem/Magic/Worthy/Scott, etc and I watched as they won their Championships and Shaq was dominant, but he would not have won without Kobe in my opinion. Having two options like that makes it impossible for a defense to key on one guy, like we saw happen to the Cavs in the Finals this year. Shaq may have been a bigger part of those Championships, but without Kobe there, I doubt they win those rings.
 
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OCBucksFan;868870; said:
Shaq or Dwade? How many rings did Wade win without Shaq? Sorry, pointless argument, you can't debate results, Kobe has more Rings than Dwade, Shaq Has more than Kobe, Horry has more than both, so was Horry the greatest player in history?
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No, because Bill Russell has 11. :wink2:
 
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Reported 4-Team Trade Proposal:

Lakers Get: F Kevin Garnett

Pacers Get: F Lamar Odom, C Andrew Bynum

Celtics Get: F Jermaine O'Neal

Wolves Get: No. 5 pick in 2007 Draft, C Al Jefferson

...and of course, Ric Bucher reports that Kobe's camp claims his desire to leave the Lakers remains, no matter who they get.... I'd call Kobe an idiot, but that would be an insult to idiots everywhere...
 
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If thats the case why don't the Cavs offer Z and Gooden or Wild Thing to the Lakers? Thats a freaking steal for LA! Unreal situation. If I were Garnett I'd say forget that. Playing with Kobe Bryant? He'll never see the ball and Kobe's antics will definitely distract from team chemistry imo. I like Garnett, obvious no? I think he is better served in a team first atmosphere where his talents shine, not being overshadowed by someone elses selfish tirades.

Maybe I'm only dreaming of a Cavs championship though. Could be. :wink2:
 
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Bestbuck36;871769; said:
If thats the case why don't the Cavs offer Z and Gooden or Wild Thing to the Lakers? Thats a freaking steal for LA! Unreal situation. If I were Garnett I'd say forget that. Playing with Kobe Bryant? He'll never see the ball and Kobe's antics will definitely distract from team chemistry imo. I like Garnett, obvious no? I think he is better served in a team first atmosphere where his talents shine, not being overshadowed by someone elses selfish tirades.

Maybe I'm only dreaming of a Cavs championship though. Could be. :wink2:
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There is no way Garnett ends up with the Cavs but that would be awesome if we could make it happen. Hell I say give up the entire team other than Lebron if you could get Garnett but there is just no way. We can dream though. :wink:
 
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