Game Thread Ohio State 28, Troy 10 (Final, Sep. 20)

[Jaxbuck]

Your original point was about the coordinators, not the recruiting. I don't think that even a dire pessimist like you could complain about the 2008/2009 recruiting, and that is the talent base going forward.

The coordinators are as much a part of the recruiting and development as anyone.

After USC, "a decent job against Troy" was a step in the right direction....

Pryor starting was a step in the right direction....

Brewster starting was a step in the right direction....

Using a "quick" DL in the fourth quarter was a step in the right direction....

Using some stunts in the fourth quarter was a step in the right direction....

Using some play action in the fourth quarter was a step in the right direction....

or is it the SOS against a weaker opponent? This teams performance over the past 17 games would suggest so.

Obviously, things aren't where we'd like them to be, but how much change, how quickly, do you want? I expect more personnel changes in the near future, and probably some coaching changes in the off-season. I don't expect JT - or any rational human being - to blow up the program or make changes simply for the sake of change. The Buckeyes are at the end of a great 3+ year run, and need some re-tooling for 2009 and 2010 - the rest of this season will be a proving ground for players, coaches, plays, and schemes, so that JT can figure what might/will work next year when the Buckeyes should be back in the NC hunt yet again.

If there are staff changes this off season I'll be happy. As far as the rest of it, to each his own about our level of greatness during this past 3 year run. Its pretty obvious it has more to do with a weak B10 than anything else.

How's anybody's D done against the good teams lately? There's a reason why they are called "good teams"....

Plenty of teams have done a hell of a lot better than we have against the good teams that have been embarrassing us.

Okay, you've proven that you can bitch and moan with the best of them, so now, what's your solution? What schemes would you run? What talent would you recruit? How would you stop a spread offense? What coaches would you hire? Let's hear some "real world" solutions....

Typical attack of anyone who isn't chugging kool aid. Why is it when anyone points out their well founded reasons for having misgivings its bitching and moaning? Do you have anything to make a counter point besides how we do against the sisters of the poor?

This is just irrational venting - you're better than that. Obviously, it is valid to compare Troy's performance against Ohio State to Troy's performace against "other premier teams" as a way of determining how well Ohio State is performing with respect to "other premier teams".

There is a more valid way to compare OSU to the other premier teams besdies using the transitive property. We keep playing them on the field and keep getting destroyed.

And it boggles my mind how people can be so negative after a solid win against a decent team. If you took nothing good away from yesterday's game, then maybe you are wearing some anti-scarlet-and-grey glasses....


Again, more bitching and moaning ... and doom and gloom. What's the solution, eh?

So again, pointing out the same old routine against a weaker opponent isn't really cause for celebration is bitching and moaning because you guys want nothing but pure sunshine and roses on this forum.

As far as the solutions, 2 new coordinators for starters. I'm not the head coach, I'm a fan same as you. I'm not paid to have all the answers.

And Ohio State is 14-3 during that time, with a losses to a national champ, a probable national champ, and a BCS-bowl team. I mean, really, are you one of those fans who expects the Buckeyes to win it all every year? I think that you need to be a little bit more realistic.

How about we start with being competative against those teams first.

Finally, although you may be too consumed with your negativity to notice, this team has gone through a tremendous upheaval already this season - losing your Heisman-calibre tailback, the compete disintegration of your All Big Ten starting quarterback, trying to implement a new offense on the fly. Add in several players whose games have regressed for whatever reason, and I think that even you could understand why 2008 has been/will continue to be a challenging season for the Buckeyes. Quite frankly, I'm surprised that this team hasn't already mailed it in, much like Michigan last season, and I think that you have to give JT some credit for that.

dealing with the injury to Beanie is tough. As to the rest of it, what you call regression I call exposure.
Changes are needed.

Changes have been made.

Changes will be made.

It won't all happen this season.

Wait till next year.

Deal with it.

We are all dealing with it. Last time I checked I didn't need anyones permission to voice an opinion.

Say something perceived as negative around here and its open season as far as the bitching and moaning comments. Suprised I haven't been threatened with a ban.

 

[Jaxbuck]

Mili made the premise of my '2 plays' point more simplistically than I did. To say "if my aunt had a set..." is being too nonchalant, if your aunt had the option or opportunity of having a set, then the point is more valid IMO. Your aunt didnt have the chance to make a better effort (easy for me to say from the seat of my couch) to "grow a set" whereas, yesterday the playcalling put us in the position to score more points, hence my '2 plays' point.

As for, "who coached/developed these players..." the same coach who has sent numerous (too lazy to get the facts/figures) players to the NFL, the same coach who has developed players into All Big-10, All Americans and National Award winners every year. The same coach who has put tOSU at the top of college football programs for 6 years now.

I would love to win every game every year. At the same time, the initial argument wasn't are our coaches developing players well enough. It was my frustration with "fans" booing the kids and then blaming coaching and playcalling for our losses and perceived poor performances. Can our coaches scheme better or be more aggressive? Maybe, maybe not. I havent been to any practices or attend the strategy sessions to question whether or not we have the personnel or right scheme in place. I am content to enjoy this unprecedented run we are on made possible by a world class coach and teacher we have at the helm and trust that he is putting the right coordinators and players out there to represent us. They have earned my trust and are much smarter than any fake knowledge I can pretend to post on an internet message board. My original point is/was we should not boo our kids and we should not blanketly blame scheme and playcalling without backing it up and providing proof.

A) show me one post where I ever said anything about getting rid of JT. I want new blood on the staff.

B) This unprecedented run owes a lot to an unprecedented down cycle in the quality of the B10.

C) What more proof than the on the field results against Florida, Illinois, LSU and USC do you need to see that would indicate we might have some issues?

 

[fanaticbuckeye]

A) show me one post where I ever said anything about getting rid of JT. I want new blood on the staff.

B) This unprecedented run owes a lot to an unprecedented down cycle in the quality of the B10.

C) What more proof than the on the field results against Florida, Illinois, LSU and USC do you need to see that would indicate we might have some issues?

A.) Show me one post where I said you did? As a matter of fact, show me a post where I addressed you before you said your fanhood was being questioned. I was making a general post to the cliff jumpers and you stated your argument for your concerns. Of which, I then gave your points some credence and stated my concerns arent at the Jaxbuck's of the world. They are at those that are making blanket statements at coaching playcalling. The discussion then progressed to this point...

B.) Not arguing against, however, the B10 still has talent and is capable of catching us in a down week - see MSU vs tOSU 1998 - or NW from a couple of years ago. I wont discount our success as much as others. We are still successful.

C.) Once again, my stance isnt that we are without issues. We have them absolutely. My stance is that I trust our coach to make the right changes and that I am disappointed in "fans" that boo our kids and blame coaching and playcalling for our "struggles."

Believe it or not Jax, you and I are a little closer to sharing views than you realize. I choose not to be so critical of our coaches and tend to trust the progression will/is being made. Where I get the feeling you are a little more synical of my trust. Which is okay and why BP is a great place to discuss as opposed to other sites. I am not attacking your position, merely a little more understanding.

 

[jwinslow]

Typical attack of anyone who isn't chugging kool aid. Why is it when anyone points out their well founded reasons for having misgivings its bitching and moaning? Do you have anything to make a counter point besides how we do against the sisters of the poor?

That was a lot of typing without any solutions or tweaks added, besides 'do better' and 'find better' (coaches/players). What would you like the staff to do differently against USC?

Say something perceived as negative around here and its open season as far as the bitching and moaning comments.

Perceived? Really?

Suprised I haven't been threatened with a ban.

 

[Jaxbuck]

That was a lot of typing without any solutions or tweaks added, besides 'do better' and 'find better' (coaches/players).

How obvious are the freakin answers? Either get better players or get coaches than can get the current crop of players to play better. The specific weaknesses of this team are well documented.

What would you like the staff to do differently against USC ?

Play with poise, emotion and some physical presence would have been a nice start.

Perceived? Really?

as long as anysnide remarks I might make about people who have a different opinion than I do are treated as fairly I guess I can play that game too.

I have a feeling the sunshine and sweet rosemary brigade will win out. I have quite a few PM's from people who say they agree with me but were afraid to say anything on the boards. Call me crazy but I didn't think that was what Clarity had in mind.

 

[fanaticbuckeye]

I have a feeling the sunshine and sweet rosemary brigade will win out. I have quite a few PM's from people who say they agree with me but were afraid to say anything on the boards. Call me crazy but I didn't think that was what Clarity had in mind.

What in the world are they afraid of? Shetuck going to McNeil them?

 

[jwinslow]

How obvious are the freakin answers? Either get better players or get coaches than can get the current crop of players to play better. The specific weaknesses of this team are well documented.

What should the staff be doing with their schemes and coaching to get them to play better, if it's so obvious? 'Be better' is useless for discussing how to improve.

Give me something. If

as long as anysnide remarks I might make about people who have a different opinion than I do are treated as fairly I guess I can play that game too.

Are you really trying to sell the victim routine, as though it's just haters perceiving your posts as negative? That you don't find a ton of things wrong with the team right now? Obviously you feel your negativity is justified, but it's mind-boggling to sell this as us painting or spinning your posts as negative with -esque quips about 'perceived negativity' and the like.

I have a feeling the sunshine and sweet rosemary brigade will win out.

Glad to see you've got the other extreme covered, especially the hyperbole.

I have quite a few PM's from people who say they agree with me but were afraid to say anything on the boards.

What is over the line, and why it's not tolerated has been detailed quite clearly since the SC game. If they can't express their concerns in a civil manner without trashing & bashing, that's their problem.

Call me crazy but I didn't think that was what Clarity had in mind.

He certainly didn't have the SoCal flameouts in mind, allowing this board to sink to the free board level at times, which is why the moderation is conducted as it is.

 

[osugrad21]

as long as anysnide remarks I might make about people who have a different opinion than I do are treated as fairly I guess I can play that game too.

I have a feeling the sunshine and sweet rosemary brigade will win out. I have quite a few PM's from people who say they agree with me but were afraid to say anything on the boards. Call me crazy but I didn't think that was what Clarity had in mind.

I PMd you (or repped you) last week saying I enjoyed talking football with you. I don't always agree but most of you critiques usually carry at least a debatable idea.

The two sides of this argument always see the other as being "extreme"

 

[Jaxbuck]

If they can't express their concerns in a civil manner without trashing & bashing, that's their problem.

I have gone out of my way to express my concerns in a civil manner without trashing or bashing. Thats why it pisses me off to see a mod completely disregard this policy himself and start in with the bitching and whining name calling nonsense.

 

[ScriptOhio]

OFFICIAL ATTENDANCE: 102,989

With its present seating capacity of 102,329, Ohio Stadium is the fourth largest on-campus facility in the nation.

Anyone else notice the area of empty seats in the south stands?

Yeah, I know the "official attendance" includes an estimate of everyone at the game (i.e. ticket takers, ushers, police, reporters, TV people, vendors, and sideline passes, etc. which is usually in the thousands.

 

[LordJeffBuck]

As far as the rest of it, to each his own about our level of greatness during this past 3 year run. Its pretty obvious it has more to do with a weak B10 than anything else.

OSU played Texas (national champion) more-or-less even in 2005 (should have won the game), beat them soundly in 2006, thumped a highly-acclaimed Notre Dame team in 2005, beat a #2 Michigan team in 2006 and a 9-4 Michigan team in 2007 (best UM offense ever, if I recall, was held to 91 yards and 3 points), hammered 9-4 Penn State teams (and bowl game winners) in both 2006 and 2007, pounded a 9-4 Wisconsin team in 2007 ... but "it's pretty obvious" that the Buckeyes' success is due primarily with a weak Big Ten?

Plenty of teams have done a hell of a lot better than we have against the good teams that have been embarrassing us.

Florida went 12-1 in 2006 ... LSU went 11-2 in 2007 ... USC has lost a total of eight games since 2002 (six straight top-4 finishes) and they look like they might not lose again this decade ... but "plenty of teams have done a hell of a lot better than we have against the good teams that have been embarrassing us"? Please....

There is a more valid way to compare OSU to the other premier teams besdies using the transitive property. We keep playing them on the field and keep getting destroyed.

If it bothers you to "keep getting destroyed" and "embarrassed", then maybe you are living too vicariously through a team that you - and let's be perfectly honest here - have done nothing for. Just because you refer to the Buckeyes as "we" doesn't make them "your" team ... and you have no vested interest in Ohio State football, except maybe for some pointless bragging rights. Some people can handle being just fans, while others think that they are entitled to certain results just because they are fans. Maybe you need a little perspective....

 

[joefoshow]

I think that Ohio State is good team but the fact that the team has been beaten by three really good teams in three straight years has hurt the team. All the teams Ohio State have been beaten by (except Illinois) either deserved to win the National Championship game( Florida, LSU) or deserve to win it (USC).

 

[Yertle]

The fact that this is being said about a coach that is 6-1 against TSUN sickens me.

Oh, give me a break. Everyone has ups and downs. Archie did, Eddie did, Troy did, Pryor did/will, and yes, even our beloved JT does. To assume that Tressel does not have slumps is being nothing but blinded by your bias for Buckeyes.

In no way whatsoever did I suggest that JT isn't the man for the job. He certainly is. However, he is in a slump. He'll get out of it, just like he did in 2004. No worries. But, don't give me this Tressel-beats-Michigan-so-therefore-he's-flawless junk. Tressel constantly says stuff like "we need to get better each week of the season..." and I think he's the first to admit that he's included in that statement.

 

[Jaxbuck]

OSU played Texas (national champion) more-or-less even in 2005 (should have won the game), beat them soundly in 2006, thumped a highly-acclaimed Notre Dame team in 2005, beat a #2 Michigan team in 2006 and a 9-4 Michigan team in 2007 (best UM offense ever, if I recall, was held to 91 yards and 3 points), hammered 9-4 Penn State teams (and bowl game winners) in both 2006 and 2007, pounded a 9-4 Wisconsin team in 2007 ... but "it's pretty obvious" that the Buckeyes' success is due primarily with a weak Big Ten?

2006 - current our only OOC success was at Texas. That one game doesn't overshadow the UF, LSU or USC debacles. No matter how much some want to try and rationalize it every time we have stepped OOC we have not just gotten beaten but been crushed the past 3 years. I can write off 1 or 2 but 3's a trend and time to start calling it like it is.

Florida went 12-1 in 2006 ... LSU went 11-2 in 2007 ... USC has lost a total of eight games since 2002 (six straight top-4 finishes) and they look like they might not lose again this decade ... but "plenty of teams have done a hell of a lot better than we have against the good teams that have been embarrassing us"? Please....

Go look it up, plenty of teams did better against 2006 UF and 2007 LSU than we did. I'm sure at some point in 2008 someone will look better than we did against USC.

If it bothers you to "keep getting destroyed" and "embarrassed", then maybe you are living too vicariously through a team that you - and let's be perfectly honest here - have done nothing for. Just because you refer to the Buckeyes as "we" doesn't make them "your" team ... and you have no vested interest in Ohio State football, except maybe for some pointless bragging rights. Some people can handle being just fans, while others think that they are entitled to certain results just because they are fans. Maybe you need a little perspective....

Nice foray into the personal side of this again by you but its pretty lame. Fan message boards are repleat with the use of "us" and "we" language, it doesn't signify anything more than you going for the straw man.

Nice to see the mods are held to the same standards as everyone else.

 

[osugrad21]

Nice to see the mods are held to the same standards as everyone else.

The hypocrisy of that statement is comical.

Seriously, what infraction do you see? You are grasping at straws with that statement.