Game Thread Ohio State 28, Troy 10 (Final, Sep. 20)

[fanaticbuckeye]

2002-2003 Tressel ball? Are you kidding me? Have you seen the defense and special teams this year? Or last year for that matter?

How hard is it to see the same things play out against two different caliber opponents and entertain the thought that maybe, just maybe the difference in the results was due to the talent level of the competition?

NOTHING has changed on the defensive side. The only thing difference on offense is that Pryor is mobile enough to buy himself time in the pocket which makes him more effective than Boeckman because our OL isn't going to give any QB much time.

There is no one on earth I would rather have at the helm of the ship than Jim Tressel. That said, I think its beyond time for some new blood on his staff and that includes two new coordinators, especially on defense.

Yes I have seen the defense. Save the missed tackle parade yesterday on the TD, we sustained a spread offense that has put up points and yards galore on top tier talent consistently.

Yes I have seen our special teams, which have performed inconsistently this year but have been historically strong. The same ST unit that won the OU game for us (sealed it) on a return and the same ST unit that won yesterdays game by putting Troy inside the 5 yard line twice.

Are either of them working flawlessly? No, but I tend to believe that illustrates how special the national championship really was as opposed to an indictment of failed philosophy this year.

As for the talent desparity, if I am understanding you correctly, which I admittedly I may not be. But if youre saying the talent comparisions for 2002's schedule vs 2008's schedule is better this year, I would tend to disagree. Texas Tech, Washington State, Kent State, Cincinnati and San Jose State match up more than favorably against this years schedule, save the obvious USC team.

Having said that, I in no way meant to question your fanhood or the fanhood of any other Buckeye that has thought through their position and can substantiate their claim with rational thought. My issue is specifically towards those that blanketly claim our playcalling is the problem or coaching strategy is the reason for our frustrations this year. Without thinking through who we are and looking at the games boxscore for stats to backup their claim. If we were to execute on only two more plays yesterday (Robo's near miss and the poor tackling TD) the game is more than likely a 35 - 6 or 35 - 3 game yesterday.

In all fairness to your point, I do see a pretty large difference in defensive execution this year vs the 2002 team. It seemed as if Dantonio's defense had better success and was able to impose its will moreso than those of recent. I dont know if thats a comparison of Dantonio vs Heacock or a 2002/3 DL vs 2006/7/8 DL. I will defer to those on here that are much smarter than I.

 

[Jaxbuck]

Yes I have seen the defense. Save the missed tackle parade yesterday on the TD, we sustained a spread offense that has put up points and yards galore on top tier talent consistently.

This is what I mean, we do a decent job against Troy and all of a sudden people think that means something based on whatever rationalization they create. How's the D done against the good teams lately? That missed tackle parade gets magnified against them and it doesn't ever stop, nor does the inability to get off of blocks parade nor the interior DL getting mauled parade. But hey Troy didn't get as much as they have against some other premier teams, whoo!

As for the talent desparity, if I am understanding you correctly, which I admittedly I may not be. But if youre saying the talent comparisions for 2002's schedule vs 2008's schedule is better this year, I would tend to disagree. Texas Tech, Washington State, Kent State, Cincinnati and San Jose State match up more than favorably against this years schedule, save the obvious USC team.

No. my point is just what I said it is. People see the exact same principles in action against Troy as they do against USC/LSU but with a different result and take it as a positive for OSU somehow. It just boggles my mind.

Poor tackling and poor DL play against Troy that only results in 10 points turns into 30+ point routes against the good teams. Nothing is changing on our end.

My issue is specifically towards those that blanketly claim our playcalling is the problem or coaching strategy is the reason for our frustrations this year. Without thinking through who we are and looking at the games boxscore for stats to backup their claim. If we were to execute on only two more plays yesterday (Robo's near miss and the poor tackling TD) the game is more than likely a 35 - 6 or 35 - 3 game yesterday.

and if my aunt had a set she'd be my uncle. We are well beyond the stats against the bad teams vs the results against the good teams argument with this bunch.

This team has done pretty much the exact same thing for the past 17 games, the difference is simply in the opponents talent level and ability to make us pay for it.

In all fairness to your point, I do see a pretty large difference in defensive execution this year vs the 2002 team. It seemed as if Dantonio's defense had better success and was able to impose its will moreso than those of recent. I dont know if thats a comparison of Dantonio vs Heacock or a 2002/3 DL vs 2006/7/8 DL. I will defer to those on here that are much smarter than I.

If its a talent issue then the current staff recruited and developed the talent.

 

[osugrad21]

Scout$--Five Answers: Troy at Ohio State

QB discussion...Pryor praise. No real hangover evident.

 

[buckeyes_rock]

So with Small on the bench, which receiver got on the field in his place? I saw a lot of Sanzo when we went three wide, but did T Wash or Posey get in when we went 4 wide?

 

[daveeb]

On the Buckeye Post-Game Show, Dimitrious Stanley brought up the fact that offenses truly aren't scared of our defense.

Our defense is very efficient at making plays. JL will never miss a tackle. MJ shuts down the opposing team's best receiver. The rest of the unit is, as I said, very efficient. But, when was the last time you saw a Buckeye just rev up and smash someone?

I just don't feel like there is anyone on the defense that puts fear into the hearts of the opposing team. Gholston was that guy last year. Maybe Mike Doss can show the young DBs the way. Or, maybe I'm just a fan who doesn't know anything who is running his mouth, and I'm just dead wrong on this one. Who knows.

 

[Jaxbuck]

On the Buckeye Post-Game Show, Dimitrious Stanley brought up the fact that offenses truly aren't scared of our defense.

Our defense is very efficient at making plays. JL will never miss a tackle. MJ shuts down the opposing team's best receiver. The rest of the unit is, as I said, very efficient. But, when was the last time you saw a Buckeye just rev up and smash someone?

I just don't feel like there is anyone on the defense that puts fear into the hearts of the opposing team. Gholston was that guy last year. Maybe Mike Doss can show the young DBs the way. Or, maybe I'm just a fan who doesn't know anything who is running his mouth, and I'm just dead wrong on this one. Who knows.

agree 100% with your basic premis but the type of tackles JL makes are pretty high percentage.

Not trying to rag on him but lets face it, he drags people down 5-7 yards down field and jumps on a lot of piles. Like you said, when is the last time you saw him just explode a blocker in the hole, blow the play up and/or drive someone backward with a tackle? Its very rare and I think he embodies the entire defense.

 

[MililaniBuckeye]

If Robo doesn't one-arm a catchable long ball over the middle and if Pryor hits a wide-open Robo (or was it Hartline?) on a deep post, this game could've been 42-10, and we're hearing no complaints about the play calling. Pryor's passing was somewhat limited, by design, but overall I thought we mixed the plays up fairly well. Pryor will get more and more passing opportunities as the season progresses, and once that happens the defenses will lossen up and make Pryor's running even more effective.

 

[LordJeffBuck]

who recruited and developed the guys who won't/can't execute?

Your original point was about the coordinators, not the recruiting. I don't think that even a dire pessimist like you could complain about the 2008/2009 recruiting, and that is the talent base going forward.

This is what I mean, we do a decent job against Troy and all of a sudden people think that means something based on whatever rationalization they create.

After USC, "a decent job against Troy" was a step in the right direction....

Pryor starting was a step in the right direction....

Brewster starting was a step in the right direction....

Using a "quick" DL in the fourth quarter was a step in the right direction....

Using some stunts in the fourth quarter was a step in the right direction....

Using some play action in the fourth quarter was a step in the right direction....

Obviously, things aren't where we'd like them to be, but how much change, how quickly, do you want? I expect more personnel changes in the near future, and probably some coaching changes in the off-season. I don't expect JT - or any rational human being - to blow up the program or make changes simply for the sake of change. The Buckeyes are at the end of a great 3+ year run, and need some re-tooling for 2009 and 2010 - the rest of this season will be a proving ground for players, coaches, plays, and schemes, so that JT can figure what might/will work next year when the Buckeyes should be back in the NC hunt yet again.

How's the D done against the good teams lately?

How's anybody's D done against the good teams lately? There's a reason why they are called "good teams"....

That missed tackle parade gets magnified against them and it doesn't ever stop, nor does the inability to get off of blocks parade nor the interior DL getting mauled parade.

Okay, you've proven that you can bitch and moan with the best of them, so now, what's your solution? What schemes would you run? What talent would you recruit? How would you stop a spread offense? What coaches would you hire? Let's hear some "real world" solutions....

But hey Troy didn't get as much as they have against some other premier teams, whoo!

This is just irrational venting - you're better than that. Obviously, it is valid to compare Troy's performance against Ohio State to Troy's performace against "other premier teams" as a way of determining how well Ohio State is performing with respect to "other premier teams".

No. my point is just what I said it is. People see the exact same principles in action against Troy as they do against USC/LSU but with a different result and take it as a positive for OSU somehow. It just boggles my mind.

And it boggles my mind how people can be so negative after a solid win against a decent team. If you took nothing good away from yesterday's game, then maybe you are wearing some anti-scarlet-and-grey glasses....

Poor tackling and poor DL play against Troy that only results in 10 points turns into 30+ point routes against the good teams. Nothing is changing on our end.

Again, more bitching and moaning ... and doom and gloom. What's the solution, eh?

This team has done pretty much the exact same thing for the past 17 games, the difference is simply in the opponents talent level and ability to make us pay for it.

And Ohio State is 14-3 during that time, with a losses to a national champ, a probable national champ, and a BCS-bowl team. I mean, really, are you one of those fans who expects the Buckeyes to win it all every year? I think that you need to be a little bit more realistic.

Finally, although you may be too consumed with your negativity to notice, this team has gone through a tremendous upheaval already this season - losing your Heisman-calibre tailback, the compete disintegration of your All Big Ten starting quarterback, trying to implement a new offense on the fly. Add in several players whose games have regressed for whatever reason, and I think that even you could understand why 2008 has been/will continue to be a challenging season for the Buckeyes. Quite frankly, I'm surprised that this team hasn't already mailed it in, much like Michigan last season, and I think that you have to give JT some credit for that.

Changes are needed.

Changes have been made.

Changes will be made.

It won't all happen this season.

Wait till next year.

Deal with it.

 

[buckeye78]

Fire, Drive, Enthusiasm

agree 100% with your basic premis but the type of tackles JL makes are pretty high percentage.

Not trying to rag on him but lets face it, he drags people down 5-7 yards down field and jumps on a lot of piles. Like you said, when is the last time you saw him just explode a blocker in the hole, blow the play up and/or drive someone backward with a tackle? Its very rare and I think he embodies the entire defense.

Agreed. This team seems to have a swagger problem. who can blame them? They've gone through some tough situations, perhaps more big game humiliation than any other class of buckeyes in recent history. (coop had a few teams that were close, no doubt). That is why I say the following.

Terrelle Pryor is exactly what this team needs. Yes, he made some mistakes, but he did something else yesterday that i think has probably already been mentioned but i feel like i have to point out.

At the beginning of the game, it looked like many of the guys were sleepwalking (yes i know the first drive was a TD). Hartline and Robo in particular looked like they weren't running hard, and that one handed attempt by Robo was an infuriating lack of effort.

By the second half, guys were playing more amped up. At least that's the way it seemed to me. The defense started flying around a little more, backs were running harder, receivers running better routes and harder.

Trickle down enthusiasm is exactly what this team needs, and Pryor has it. Boatloads of it. He's having fun out there, and it will rub off. We have the talent, it's just been sleepwalking for a while. We need that fire, and freshman qb mistakes or not, it seems, at least for now, that TP brings that.

 

[WaitingforKickoff]

who recruited and developed the guys who won't/can't execute?

I agree with that. I don't want to sound too negative, because we are still a top ten team, and we have a lot of good players and good people on this team for whom I am excited to cheer, but this statement is correct. Take defensive recruiting, we recruited 6 defensive backs this season, and we were at one time (or still are) interested in taking one more, which makes a lot of us wonder if we even have room for a Corey Adams, you know, the type of explosive DT that the USC and Miami currently have. And when we had a chance to take a solid DT, like Antonio Jeremiah from our own backyard, we let him go off to MSU, where he is reputed to be doing well, and take another flashy speed prospect. The lack of emphasis and direction on DT recruiting and development is astounding, and this is a debate that we've had since before the UF game. We got to get some new ideas to address these problems that doesn't seem to be addressed quickly or adequately.

 

[alpo]

If Robo doesn't one-arm a catchable long ball over the middle and if Pryor hits a wide-open Robo (or was it Hartline?) on a deep post, this game could've been 42-10, and we're hearing no complaints about the play calling. Pryor's passing was somewhat limited, by design, but overall I thought we mixed the plays up fairly well. Pryor will get more and more passing opportunities as the season progresses, and once that happens the defenses will lossen up and make Pryor's running even more effective.

And Boom's! He is improving very nicely.

 

[troy#1]

EXACTLY!! Of course, that only works on B10 teams. USC wouldn't fall for it in L.A., there aren't any deer.

Oh yes there are! Look at la's most wanted list. Those guys cant get caught cuz they run like deer! LOL!

 

[BUCKYLE]

Oh yes there are! Look at la's most wanted list. Those guys cant get caught cuz they run like deer! LOL!

You've never seen an Ohio Whitetail run.

 

[fanaticbuckeye]

Mili made the premise of my '2 plays' point more simplistically than I did. To say "if my aunt had a set..." is being too nonchalant, if your aunt had the option or opportunity of having a set, then the point is more valid IMO. Your aunt didnt have the chance to make a better effort (easy for me to say from the seat of my couch) to "grow a set" whereas, yesterday the playcalling put us in the position to score more points, hence my '2 plays' point.

As for, "who coached/developed these players..." the same coach who has sent numerous (too lazy to get the facts/figures) players to the NFL, the same coach who has developed players into All Big-10, All Americans and National Award winners every year. The same coach who has put tOSU at the top of college football programs for 6 years now.

I would love to win every game every year. At the same time, the initial argument wasn't are our coaches developing players well enough. It was my frustration with "fans" booing the kids and then blaming coaching and playcalling for our losses and perceived poor performances. Can our coaches scheme better or be more aggressive? Maybe, maybe not. I havent been to any practices or attend the strategy sessions to question whether or not we have the personnel or right scheme in place. I am content to enjoy this unprecedented run we are on made possible by a world class coach and teacher we have at the helm and trust that he is putting the right coordinators and players out there to represent us. They have earned my trust and are much smarter than any fake knowledge I can pretend to post on an internet message board. My original point is/was we should not boo our kids and we should not blanketly blame scheme and playcalling without backing it up and providing proof.

 

[MililaniBuckeye]

Quite frankly, I'm surprised that this team hasn't already mailed it in, much like Michigan last season, and I think that you have to give JT some credit for that.

I think some of the "young pups" trying to win starting jobs should also be given some credit.