Oversigning (capacity 25, everyone welcome! maybe)

[Gatorubet]

[Gatorubet] Oooopppsss!!! [/Gatorubet]

Not at all Steve. I do not defer to him as an authority on college athletics (be it "little sisters of the poor" or calling "greyshirting" "disgusting") that has a better opinion than mine. He is doing exactly what I have been trying to combat on this thread....using sloppy communications and assumptions about a complex issue that results in one term being used to identify several entirely different practices. Even worse, to feign moral outrage about the too broad definition term when when parts of the too broad term are entirely above board and honorable.

Talking about "oversigning" in the abstract and "Greyshirting" in the abstract, rather than the specifics, is misleading and ignorant.

Not giving a [Mark May] about how many kids you sign is wrong. Not caring if you do not have enough scholarships is wrong. Giving a greyshirt or a medical release is wrong if the only reason you do it is to bump a guy "even though the student-athlete is doing what is asked of him.""

I agree. But telling a guy in advance that he will have to pay his own way because of numbers is not wrong. It is wrong to withhold that info and leave him hanging with no place to go. Greyshirting is fine if done responsibly and honestly. Not using medical excuses like Satan is what is expected. Signing up more kids than you should reasonably know will be enrolling is something that should be penalized and stopped. Signing up kids to go to JUCO - with their knowledge and consent - and signing up kids to accept a greyshirt - with their knowledge and consent - is also fine.

"Oversigning" does not always mean lying. See Grad's post of an article where the kid was informed IN ADVANCE that if he signed he would be placed at a JUCO. If that results in more LOIs than spots, that is not a problem, because he knows in advance what they will do. Greyshirting does not always mean lying. I agree about not abusing kids. I do not agree that all oversigning is wrong, nor that all greyshirt applications are wrong. He is entitled to his opinion. He should have spoken to Foley and Boom before opening his big mouth, as he is entering an area where he should let his AD do the talking.

 

[Steve19]

Geez, lighten up Francis!

 

[Gatorubet]

Example of how things work differently. tOSU according to the current Rivals site, has 3 kids of their verbals not yet committed. Arkansas as of the same time today has 22 of their verbals not signed. Similar thing in South Carolina.

Numbers of Verbals at some SEC schools do not translate to numbers of LOI in the same way they do at tOSU. 33 verbals that Spurrier thought would all sign is not really what South Carolina's verbal numbers represent.

 

[A Pac]

Spurrier has signed 33 kids so far... Yup.

 

[FCollinsBuckeye]

Numbers of Verbals at some SEC schools do not translate to numbers of LOI in the same way they do at tOSU. 33 verbals that Spurrier thought would all sign is not really what South Carolina's verbal numbers represent.

Spurrier has signed 33 kids so far... Yup.

 

[jwinslow]

Example of how things work differently. tOSU according to the current Rivals site, has 3 kids of their verbals not yet committed. Arkansas as of the same time today has 22 of their verbals not signed. Similar thing in South Carolina.

Numbers of Verbals at some SEC schools do not translate to numbers of LOI in the same way they do at tOSU. 33 verbals that Spurrier thought would all sign is not really what South Carolina's verbal numbers represent.

no, not really. Kids sign throughout the day (every single Buckeye verbal will sign, just like last year), and sites have tracked LOIs for multiple years now, so trying to use that as an asterisk is a very obsolete rebuttal to oversigning.

We are well aware kids change their minds. That does not invalidate the numbers they have been signing in recent classes, which is updated after signing day hijinx.

 

[jlb1705]

no, not really. Kids sign throughout the day (every single Buckeye verbal will sign, just like last year)

...or perhaps not. :(

 

[jwinslow]

...or perhaps not. :(

True, just saw that. Either way, there will be no confusion in the final numbers that these complaints and patterns are based on.

It isn't the single 33 man class that is egregious, it is taking oversized classes year after year (this marks South Carolina's third 29+ man class in 5 years).

 

[jwinslow]

2011 Totals so far (signed / total verbals)

Top Teams in B10 & SEC

18 / 23 - Alabama - nabbed Pagan but Cyrus K was thought to be a "lock"
28 / 32 - Arkansas - Quantity over quality. 0 five, 3 four 25 three star prospects.
24 / 24 - Auburn - #1 OT Cyrus K is a huge pickup. Kids sure are flocking to the impending doom.
23 / 24 - Georgia - Another year, another top recruiting class without oversigning.
20 / 22 - LSU - Continued dominance in the talent rich LA region, 3 five 9 four stars, almost all from LA.
20 / 23 - Ohio St - Walker to USC, Grant to OSU?, Story & Jennings stay home as expected. Carter gets thrown in jail and out of the class the night before signing
17 / 21 - Mich St - mediocre class, Lawrence Thomas is incredible, but missing on Arnett and others kept them from cementing solid top-4 status in the b10 moving forward
17 / 19 - Nebraska - overcomes heavy favorite ASU to snag 4-star DT Todd Peat from Tempe
19 / 19 - Wisconsin - another year, another uninspiring class on (recruiting) paper which Wisconsin will likely coach up.


Floundering this year:

18 / 18 - Florida - What a disastrous transition. Held onto Story but lost many other heavy UF leans with Urban's departure. FSU & Miami making big waves, uphill battle for new boss in Gainesville. Still a solid class but a huge step back from where it was in December.
15 / 19 - Michigan - Darian Cooper heads to Kinnick, Jake Fischer abandons UM for Oregon. Sleeper Frank Clark gives UM a minor presence in Glenville.
15 / 15 - Penn St - Built up and then torn down by the same legend :(

 

[swopes6]

Espn said earlier USC has 31 commits. Idk if that's actually all signings or just commits.

 

[Gatorubet]

no, not really. Kids sign throughout the day (every single Buckeye verbal will sign, just like last year), and sites have tracked LOIs for multiple years now, so trying to use that as an asterisk is a very obsolete rebuttal to oversigning.

It was never meant as a "rebuttal to oversigning." It was yet another attempt to point out how the real world works, and to educate some of you who refuse to let go of certain ignorant assumptions - such as making pronouncements that equate the number of LOIs to players contributing to programs on the field. The number of verbals does not equal numbers of LOIs on NSD. The numbers of LOIs on NSD does not equal the number of kids that will be enrolled and playing at a program. Adding the number of LOIs at Program A when compared to the number at Program B, and then saying "over four years Program A had twenty more players than B did" is just a big fat, ignorant lie. (not saying "you" personally Josh)

 

[Gatorubet]

Floundering this year:

18 / 18 - Florida - What a disastrous transition. Held onto Story but lost many other heavy UF leans with Urban's departure. FSU & Miami making big waves, uphill battle for new boss in Gainesville. Still a solid class but a huge step back from where it was in December.

Perhaps a it strong. We are in the top ten if you rank them by star rankings. So I would rather have high ranked kids than numbers, and need over numbers. That said, we needed more o-line studs.

 

[AKAK]

Perhaps a it strong. We are in the top ten if you rank them by star rankings.

Oh, no buddy, you're not using the Ohio State argument here!

No, seriously, it could have been a heck of a lot worse. Lost a couple guys that were ok on Defense (thank you very much) and some other guys that I'm sure won't pan out at other Florida schools.

This was a disaster from the perspective of losing Urban, but, given that, it could have been much worse.

 

[Gatorubet]

Oh, no buddy, you're not using the Ohio State argument here!

No, seriously, it could have been a heck of a lot worse. Lost a couple guys that were ok on Defense (thank you very much) and some other guys that I'm sure won't pan out at other Florida schools.

This was a disaster from the perspective of losing Urban, but, given that, it could have been much worse.

Yeah. The year after the Ole Ball Coach left we were about #20 if I remember. After Zook left, Urban was #15 or so his first year. Urban leaving after he thought he'd be staying on cost us a lot. Add in the change from a spread offense to a pro-set offense, and it could have been like most of the guys on Gator Country see it today.

 

[jwinslow]

Perhaps a it strong. We are in the top ten if you rank them by star rankings. So I would rather have high ranked kids than numbers, and need over numbers. That said, we needed more o-line studs.

Bad classes for our schools are still very good classes. I was speaking comparatively.

OSU missed on almost the entire visit list for The Game 06 (Thompson, Wright, Barksdale, Still, Brent, Rolle, etc) and signed a less stellar 07 class on paper, yet that still produced Rolle, Heyward, Sanzenbacher, Hines, Torrence, etc.