RE: Punt-N-Grunt Offense: Will It Ever End?

[slickman]

(warning- I'm going to spout a bit and state my opinion)

I saw that riptide (over on BN- I don't post there) referred to Tressel/Bollman's offense as the "Punt and Grunt" offense. This caught me off guard and really made me laugh. It's one of those sad, oh my gosh, sad, funny laughs. It made me think about our talent on offense as they discussed Spurrier's fun-n-gun versus a power game.

I'm an offense guy and that makes it very difficult to be a Buckeye fan. Especially, last year when we had to be somewhere in the bottom decile of offenses in the entire country. When you think about our talent and the couple of patsies on our schedule every year (the preseason) I think that it's pretty unacceptable. I realize that San Jose State and Kent State were pretty crappy teams and that our entire offensive philosophy hinges on the tailback which suffered as a position last year and that this year should show a marked improvement in that category not to mention improved QB precision passing- I cannot help but point out that our philosophy on offense must change.

When OSU lines up I can tell you just by looking at the splits on the line, the lean of the RB and the head of the QB exactly where the play is going and whether its a run or a pass which is almost always dictated by down and distance. The creativity seems lacking UP UNTIL Tressel and Bollman find it utterly necessary to go on the attack like they did at the end of the Penn State, Wisconsin, and Michigan games. The playcalling was inspired versus Kansas State, Michigan State, and Indiana for some reason but come on, already. The offense has to be held accountable for scoring and executing- or- somebody's head should roll (of course not Tressel's). I know this sounds draconian but high profile recruits have already shied away from us because of poor execution and lack of creativity on offense. I saw that Pittman said the playbook was over 300 pages. That's fucking brilliant. I don't know what is on those other 297 pages but I wouldn't mind watching some offense.

I know that we've got to be better on offense this year. I really don't think that there is any QB contoversy. I watched the spring game and then I saw reports by Jon Spencer of the Gannet News Service that said: "No QB emerges at Spring Game". I don't know what game that guy was watching but Zwick looked like he was ready to make plays. The dude can jump up in the air and hit a guy on a crossing pattern, scrambling backwards away from a defender and people are whining about throwing off of a back foot. I'm sure Mr. Zwick could teach class on how to be a QB by now. You have to be special to take Orville and win state as a 14 or 15 year old. I think the coaches told Fox to select Smith over Zwick and they're perpetuating this "controversy" to put a chip on his shoulder so he's not thinking of himself as some golden child who is destined to be the best QB in OSU history- you know- prove that shit on the field sort of thing.

The real controversy is a few yards behind the QB. Pittman did indeed remind me of a larger Warrick Dunn, slashing side to side, and accelarating past anyone he wanted to get by. I've heard these other guys are good too, Kennedy and Haw. I just hope that Tressel plays the best players this year. He was comfortable with Krenzel and Krenzel was a National Championship MVP QB but I bet Zwick showed better skill every day in practice last year. Just my lame ass opinion there.

And one other thing. 2 years ago I heard Tressel say: "We would like to be very predictible." The guy is a real gem, but if I'm the quarterback, I really don't want to be predictible at all.

Once again, just my lame ass opinion, and I don't wish to piss anybody off. I know that reading words on a screen is "dramatically" different than having a conversation with a live human at a bar over 36 beers but I need this outlet for OSU- loving because I gotta talk FSU with these bitter bastards down here in South Florida constantly.

I just had to laugh my fucking ass off when I read: "Punt-N-Grunt" up against "Fun-N-Gun".

 

[BuckeyeTillIDie]

"Punt-N-Grunt-N-Win-National Championships-N-BCS-Bowls" offense.. works for me.

 

[lvbuckeye]

grunt n punt works fine when you don't lose 7 starters and 3 key backups on O either before or during the season...

 

[OSUBasketballJunkie]

wake me up when the defense hits the field!

well, dont know what anyone is complaining about, Coach T has a formula it has worked for the past three years and just remember one thing for all those people out there who want more scoring.......defense wins championships, offense wins games...just ask Spurrier, he had great offenses year after year but was only able to win one championship...when he got a defense to go along with it.



:gobucks3: :gobucks4:

 

[KillerNut]

1) You play to your talent level. You have big fat offensive linement who can't move, you can't pass all of the time because the rush ends will run around you linemen and almost any stunt will work

2) You mentioned execution. That is why it looks like the punt-n-grunt

3) DEFENSE WINS CHAMPIONSHIPS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You must put your defense in positions that are favorable to you and your team

4) There is a QB contreversy because there are still some who think Troy Smith gives us a better chance to win. I am not completely convinced he doesn't, although I agree it is clearly Zwick's job to lose.

5) When you are looking at talent, you are looking at skilled postions, not the offensive line which if not strong eliminates a lot of things you can do at the skilled positions because they can not get in front of screen, or sweeps. They can not hold a pocket long enough etc.

6) Although I am CK is for the most part my kind of QB, (Smart, Great Leader, Clutch), he did not have an accurate or efficient arm.

7) When you don't run the ball well it is hard to make your offense go, period. Even ole Steve Spurier well tell you that, although he forgets it from time to time.

I see improvement in all of these areas coming this season. So when you see an improved offense, don't think the system has changed. The talent will be what has changed.

 

[gbearbuck]

It can get frustrating at times... and it certainly raises the blood preasure of the fans... however it has worked. I'd like to see it open up a little more, however if Coach Tressel wants to continue this style so be it... he's proven it works...

 

[FKAGobucks877]

YSU fans swear that Tressel plays to his talent, so we'll see what happens with the O this year. I agree with most of what was posted originally, but I do NOT agree that Zwick is clearly better than Smith. I'm not saying he isn't, but the spring game is no gauge whatsoever. Not only was Smith not allowed to run, he wasn't even allowed to scramble. He had absolutely NO protection at all, so what do you want the guy to do? Zwick, on the other hand, had all kinds of protection, and more times than not he threw the ball out of bounds while trying to hit a wide open receiver. Ask Gonzo, that kid was wide open all the time, and Zwick rarely got him the ball. He threw to him a lot, just didn't throw accurately. Our offense is going to depend on the QB. If Zwick's future performances resemble what I saw in the spring game, then I'll go with Smith. At least Smith can run.

I apologize for this rant, as I do not want to hijack this post and turn it into a "Zwick v. Smith" thread. Going back to topic, I simply feel there are way too many unanswered questions to have any idea where our O will be this year. QB? O line? RB? Even WR? We could theoretically be scary-good. But, then again, we may suck again. Play calling, in my mind, is the least of our concerns. If the talent and execution is there, the play-calling will utilize those talents as much as possible.

 

[slickman]

All great posts. I just had to laugh at "Punt-N-Grunt" and not to make this a post about Smith and Zwick, I'll redouble my efforts to not judge him on one game. I realize that Smith's style must be to run around, buy time and make plays like Vick so I'll wait, watch and hope to see that.

I'm not whining so much about winning at all. I love winning. I just would like to see some better execution and a tad more throwing on 1st down. That might bring about some better offense.

The line is key, being a Browns fan, I know this. I look at the Browns in much the same way, getting all excited about our wideouts, Jeff Garcia, that new tight-end whatsisname, and 2 strong Tailbacks, but it all really hinges on the O-Line, and probably I was frustrated last year with OSU's O-Line more than anything because it always seemed like they failed us at the most in-opportune time.

**edit**Speaking of "Wake me up when the Defense hits the Field" last year, all I could think of was alright, we're on Defense... now I can relax and maybe we'll score or something.

There's logic in everthing I've read and I'm glad to be talking more football than assault, history or anything else. I assumed I was going to be completely ripped in this thread but I wanted to talk a little more football- and I was a bit surprised how cool everyone is about this discussion.

I don't mind disagreeing one bit as long as sanity is maintained, unlike most political debates it would seem.

 

[FKAGobucks877]

I don't mind disagreeing one bit as long as sanity is maintained, unlike most political debates it would seem.

slick--exactly the reason I don't participate in any of the political debates.

As for Smith, I would be just as worried about our Offense if we needed a running, slash type of QB. I just think that Smith was handcuffed in the spring game because unlike Zwick, he NEVER had any time to throw. It seemed to me that Zwick had time (at least more often than Smith), and still couldn't make an accurate throw. My guess is that Zwick will be the starter, but I sincerely hope (and believe) he is more accurate than his appearance in the spring game. The OL is the biggest question. If, and it is a big IF, they can play well, then the play-calling will not be so suspect, and I do believe we will see much better results.

 

[MililaniBuckeye]

I bet you that Texas Tech, Kent State, Indiana, San Jose State, Minnesota, Washington, and Kansas State don't think we're "punt and grunt". Riptide has turned into a real whining pansy and I'm glad he stays over on Bustnuts. He cries if we don't throw the ball 2 out of 3 times (although he'll flat out deny that) and score 40+ points. If we don't blow someone out, we're too conservative. With the exact same offensive scheme, we can average 35+ points a game simply by improving our OL execution and hitting wide-open receivers with consistency.

 

[ScarletNGry]

I would have to say that when the offense in sitting at the 14 yard line because we have NO return game in the special teams area, I would rather the coaches call run, run, run, punt. Let the defense put us in a better position field wise and see what happens. I would live to see an offense that can go up and down the field and maybe one day we will, but I would not trade safe and sound defensive football for a chancing taking offense. Maybe I have just gotten used to the way it has been.

The comment made about breathing easier when the defense is on the field, Dead On!

 

[SanClementeBuck]

I was one on Buckn**s to pull rip's chain a few times by repeating 26-2 or something close. Rip's problem, IMO, is simply that he insists on changing JT's approach to offensive play calling and actively criticises those who don't essentially agree with him. I have no problem with rip's criticism of the O...if that's his thing. But I do object to his insistance that he is correct and all others, especially us homers who love to write 26-2 are somehow, less than, rather than more than.

I agree with those who see JT's success in execution of basics and of detail, rather than changing the O play calling. I'm not saying that I'm 100% correct, only that that's the way I think about football. If, IF, execution of called plays prove to be better, we'll find a corresponding increase in YPP, YPR, YPG.

Look at most successful champions and you find JT's essential elements.

 

[Happygobuckeye]

I bet you that Texas Tech, Kent State, Indiana, San Jose State, Minnesota, Washington, and Kansas State don't think we're "punt and grunt". Riptide has turned into a real whining pansy and I'm glad he stays over on Bustnuts. He cries if we don't throw the ball 2 out of 3 times (although he'll flat out deny that) and score 40+ points. If we don't blow someone out, we're too conservative. With the exact same offensive scheme, we can average 35+ points a game simply by improving our OL execution and hitting wide-open receivers with consistency.

But Riptide played the game at the college level....and its obvious to him that every offensive drive that has not resulted in a touchdown is do to bad play calling. Is it that hard to understand?

 

[SanClementeBuck]

HappyGo:

In the real world, yes. I know, every play is designed to score...but that simply doesn't happen much in football: The opposing D thinks: every D call is designed to stop the opposing offense...with considerable effectiveness. Thus, the old saw: Championship football has great defense.

If some think every play should go for a score, well, I just don't think that's too realistic...it might be a great goal...a quest to aim for, but it doesn't happen against good to great defenses for good reason.

The critcism may more properly be directed not at play calling, but the ability of the O to impliment the play calls. Or, with many critics, existing plays are not the correct ones to call in the first place. Who is more correct? I'd place my homer money on Tressel as HC with his experience and record, rather than on many who have played football at many levels.

 

[lvbuckeye]

But Riptide played the game at the college level....and its obvious to him that every offensive drive that has not resulted in a touchdown is do to bad play calling. Is it that hard to understand?

how many teams (little league on up) has Rip coached to a title?
case closed.