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- Thread starter osugrad21
- Start date
Buckin' A
Veritas Aequitas
In todays era, kids seem to be all about hype and bringing "Bling" or attention to themselves. Ok, you are a punk 17/18 year old kid and I know you have much to learn.
BUT, as a parent of 3, if any of my kids have that opportunity, I will make certain that they handle it with class and respect.
The parents of that kid deserve to be slapped as much as he does.
BUT, as a parent of 3, if any of my kids have that opportunity, I will make certain that they handle it with class and respect.
The parents of that kid deserve to be slapped as much as he does.
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ohiobuck94
Buckeye Beach Bum
for those who wonder why tOSU is tougher on academics, here is an article that may clear it up. :osu:
High academic standards shrink college football recruiting pool
By ED MILLER, The Virginian-Pilot
© February 1, 2006
Wake Forest football coach Jim Grobe was in a cheery mood as he drove from Statesville, N.C., back to Winston-Salem after a recruiting visit last Friday afternoon.
“We’re getting a lot of kids that everybody wants,” he said. “We very rarely take a kid anymore that’s not recruited by other ACC schools and other BCS schools.”
That might not sound like a big deal. After all, Wake Forest is in the ACC, too. But when it comes to recruiting, all conference schools do not fish from the same talent pool.
“Because of academics” at Wake, Grobe said, “it sometimes seems more like a puddle.”
When schools announce their recruiting classes today, national signing day, analysts will rank them on football talent alone. But what about academics? Which schools have the highest standards, and therefore the smallest pool of potential recruits?
David Glenn, editor of the weekly ACC Area Sports Journal, has covered football recruiting for 20 years. Each year, he attempts to collect academic data from every football signee. He generally gets data from about 80 percent of the players. Allowing for the imperfection of relying on the word of players, coaches and parents, Glenn has drawn some conclusions about which schools have the highest standards.
In the ACC, according to Glenn’s data, Duke tops the list. Boston College and Georgia Tech are tied for second, with Wake Forest fourth.
Virginia heads up the next group, at fifth, followed by Maryland and North Carolina, in no particular order, and Miami.
Bringing up the rear, in no particular order, are Clemson, Florida State, North Carolina State and Virginia Tech.
One way to track a school’s standards is by the number of players who sign in February and fail to qualify under NCAA freshman eligibility guidelines, and are therefore ineligible to receive a scholarship in August.
According to Glenn, over the last five recruiting classes (2001-2005), N.C. State led the way with 20 non-qualifiers. Clemson had 19, followed by Florida State and Miami with 18 each. Virginia Tech had 15, North Carolina 11, Virginia eight, Maryland six, Boston College two, Georgia Tech and Wake Forest one each and Duke none.
“Every year, the list of players who sign in February is significantly different than the list of kids who enroll in August,” Glenn said.
Prep schools like Hargrave Military Academy and Fork Union Military Academy have become popular destinations for recruits who don’t qualify after high school. Many, if not most, of the students who prep there lack a qualifying test score on either the SAT or ACT.
As many as 20 athletes who played at Hargrave this season will sign with ACC schools today. Many are signing for the second time. Hargrave had 28 alumni on ACC rosters in 2005, according to the school.
In 2005, Virginia had two Hargrave alumni — linebacker Ahmad Brooks and guard Brandon Albert — in the starting lineup. Linebacker Olu Hall also prepped at Hargrave, as did cornerback Phillip Brown, who was declared academically ineligible before the season. Quarterback Marques Hagans and nose tackle Keenan Carter attended Fork Union.
Glenn ranked Virginia a notch below Duke, Boston College, Georgia Tech and Wake Forest in part because of the number of prep school players it accepts.
“Virginia takes a lot of great students but also gets non-qualifiers,” he said.
The number varies from class to class. Virginia’s class of 2005 contained no players who failed to qualify under NCAA freshman eligibility rules, which are far less stringent than admissions standards for Virginia’s general student body. The NCAA uses a sliding scale to determine freshm an eligiblity. A player with a core GPA of 2.5, for example, would need an 820 SAT score to qualify. A player with a 2.8 would need a 700, and a player with a 2.2 would need a 940.
John A. Blackburn, Virginia’s dean of admission, said the school has no hard-and-fast rules when it comes to admitting players who needed a year of prep school to meet NCAA guidelines. He said the test is whether his department feels the student can succeed in the classroom.
“Of course, you and I know and the general public realizes that Division I-A football programs have some students on them who will have to struggle in order to be successful,” he said.
The goal at most schools is to minimize that number, particularly in light of a new NCAA measure known as the Academic Progress Rate. The APR carries penalties for schools that have too many players who leave school or do not graduate.
The APR could prompt teams to re-examine how many academic risks they are willing to take in the recruiting process. That could benefit schools like Wake Forest and harm those on the other end of the spectrum.
“Obviously you can’t go out there and sign 25 guys who are going to fall into that category,” Florida State recruiting coordinator John Lilly told the Orlando Sentinel. “You might sign five, a smaller number where you feel like a majority of those have a better-than-average chance to make it.”
Schools like Duke, Wake Forest, Georgia Tech and Boston College rarely sign any. Georgia Tech tightened standards under coach Chan Gailey after a spate of academic casualties among players recruited by former coach George O’Leary.
Grobe said enrolling players who are likely to struggle academically is like “herding cats” because of the extra care and attention needed to keep them eligible. For him, the recruiting trail rarely turns north toward Hargrave or Fork Union. Wake has enrolled just one prep school player since he took over in 2001.
“We got the green light on him ” with admissions, Grobe said. “But we can’t make a habit of it.”
The upside is that Wake generally has no post-signing-day surprises. The players who sign in February will enroll in August.
“That’s what you don’t see taken into account on signing day,” he said. “Will they still be around in five years?”
Or even, in some cases, in six months.
High academic standards shrink college football recruiting pool
By ED MILLER, The Virginian-Pilot
© February 1, 2006
Wake Forest football coach Jim Grobe was in a cheery mood as he drove from Statesville, N.C., back to Winston-Salem after a recruiting visit last Friday afternoon.
“We’re getting a lot of kids that everybody wants,” he said. “We very rarely take a kid anymore that’s not recruited by other ACC schools and other BCS schools.”
That might not sound like a big deal. After all, Wake Forest is in the ACC, too. But when it comes to recruiting, all conference schools do not fish from the same talent pool.
“Because of academics” at Wake, Grobe said, “it sometimes seems more like a puddle.”
When schools announce their recruiting classes today, national signing day, analysts will rank them on football talent alone. But what about academics? Which schools have the highest standards, and therefore the smallest pool of potential recruits?
David Glenn, editor of the weekly ACC Area Sports Journal, has covered football recruiting for 20 years. Each year, he attempts to collect academic data from every football signee. He generally gets data from about 80 percent of the players. Allowing for the imperfection of relying on the word of players, coaches and parents, Glenn has drawn some conclusions about which schools have the highest standards.
In the ACC, according to Glenn’s data, Duke tops the list. Boston College and Georgia Tech are tied for second, with Wake Forest fourth.
Virginia heads up the next group, at fifth, followed by Maryland and North Carolina, in no particular order, and Miami.
Bringing up the rear, in no particular order, are Clemson, Florida State, North Carolina State and Virginia Tech.
One way to track a school’s standards is by the number of players who sign in February and fail to qualify under NCAA freshman eligibility guidelines, and are therefore ineligible to receive a scholarship in August.
According to Glenn, over the last five recruiting classes (2001-2005), N.C. State led the way with 20 non-qualifiers. Clemson had 19, followed by Florida State and Miami with 18 each. Virginia Tech had 15, North Carolina 11, Virginia eight, Maryland six, Boston College two, Georgia Tech and Wake Forest one each and Duke none.
“Every year, the list of players who sign in February is significantly different than the list of kids who enroll in August,” Glenn said.
Prep schools like Hargrave Military Academy and Fork Union Military Academy have become popular destinations for recruits who don’t qualify after high school. Many, if not most, of the students who prep there lack a qualifying test score on either the SAT or ACT.
As many as 20 athletes who played at Hargrave this season will sign with ACC schools today. Many are signing for the second time. Hargrave had 28 alumni on ACC rosters in 2005, according to the school.
In 2005, Virginia had two Hargrave alumni — linebacker Ahmad Brooks and guard Brandon Albert — in the starting lineup. Linebacker Olu Hall also prepped at Hargrave, as did cornerback Phillip Brown, who was declared academically ineligible before the season. Quarterback Marques Hagans and nose tackle Keenan Carter attended Fork Union.
Glenn ranked Virginia a notch below Duke, Boston College, Georgia Tech and Wake Forest in part because of the number of prep school players it accepts.
“Virginia takes a lot of great students but also gets non-qualifiers,” he said.
The number varies from class to class. Virginia’s class of 2005 contained no players who failed to qualify under NCAA freshman eligibility rules, which are far less stringent than admissions standards for Virginia’s general student body. The NCAA uses a sliding scale to determine freshm an eligiblity. A player with a core GPA of 2.5, for example, would need an 820 SAT score to qualify. A player with a 2.8 would need a 700, and a player with a 2.2 would need a 940.
John A. Blackburn, Virginia’s dean of admission, said the school has no hard-and-fast rules when it comes to admitting players who needed a year of prep school to meet NCAA guidelines. He said the test is whether his department feels the student can succeed in the classroom.
“Of course, you and I know and the general public realizes that Division I-A football programs have some students on them who will have to struggle in order to be successful,” he said.
The goal at most schools is to minimize that number, particularly in light of a new NCAA measure known as the Academic Progress Rate. The APR carries penalties for schools that have too many players who leave school or do not graduate.
The APR could prompt teams to re-examine how many academic risks they are willing to take in the recruiting process. That could benefit schools like Wake Forest and harm those on the other end of the spectrum.
“Obviously you can’t go out there and sign 25 guys who are going to fall into that category,” Florida State recruiting coordinator John Lilly told the Orlando Sentinel. “You might sign five, a smaller number where you feel like a majority of those have a better-than-average chance to make it.”
Schools like Duke, Wake Forest, Georgia Tech and Boston College rarely sign any. Georgia Tech tightened standards under coach Chan Gailey after a spate of academic casualties among players recruited by former coach George O’Leary.
Grobe said enrolling players who are likely to struggle academically is like “herding cats” because of the extra care and attention needed to keep them eligible. For him, the recruiting trail rarely turns north toward Hargrave or Fork Union. Wake has enrolled just one prep school player since he took over in 2001.
“We got the green light on him ” with admissions, Grobe said. “But we can’t make a habit of it.”
The upside is that Wake generally has no post-signing-day surprises. The players who sign in February will enroll in August.
“That’s what you don’t see taken into account on signing day,” he said. “Will they still be around in five years?”
Or even, in some cases, in six months.
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IrontonBuck
Walk On
I believe that the APR will have the effect of causing high school athletes to actually put forth an effort in high school. Higher standards are not about excluding students of lower academic ability, they are about prodding young people to live up to their potential.
And, most successful people will tell you that showing off, acting like a jerk, and not respecting your elders is NOT the way to be successful. Humility, hard work, and respect...THAT'S the way winners behave. And that is Jim Tressel's specialty.
And, most successful people will tell you that showing off, acting like a jerk, and not respecting your elders is NOT the way to be successful. Humility, hard work, and respect...THAT'S the way winners behave. And that is Jim Tressel's specialty.
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HineyBuck
Old newb
Doesn't all this just make you glad our signing day was over by 1:30? No muss, no fuss. No surprises and no suspense. Just a bunch of kids who can't wait to be Buckeyes. That NLOID was so quiet on the Buckeye front says something about the character of the kids coming in.
:osu:
:osu:
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sandgk
Watson, Crick & A Twist
tibor, its true some did say nice things about Reynolds after that incident.
Conspicuous differences though exist between RR's transgression and Vick's rap sheet.
Reynolds did a full, contrite and complete Mea Culpa with the press present.
He fessed up that what he did was wrong. There was never any doubt in the minds of the press or the coaches that he was sincere in this public self-abasement.
The apologists largely (as I recall) focused on this being out of character for Robert - which certainly does not happen to be the case with the man of a a multiple crimes known as Marcus Vick.
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sandgk
Watson, Crick & A Twist
I am not going to open that can of worms again - for we know were it leads.
"You don't know what happens in a scrum, under the pile, at the line."
By which quote I acknowledge that there were statements to that effect made around that time.
Still, though there is a huge difference between how RR handled himself before and after the "choke" and how MV has handled himself throughout his collegiate career.
One has a blemish - for which he fessed up.
The other has a trail of errors - for most of which he had little but light-hearted dismissal.
Which character example do you believe better fits this thread?
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Chicago Tribune
2/5
COLLEGE FOOTBALL SIGNING DAY
Loyal to U . . . never mind
More and more college recruits are breaking their vows
Teddy Greenstein
ON SPORTS MEDIA AND COLLEGES
You no longer have to flip to the Tempo section to read about young men who can't commit.
It's all here in the sports pages: College football recruits who promise to have and to hold until . . . they find a more attractive mate.
"It used to be that you'd shake hands with a coach and say: `I'm committing to you,'" CSTV recruiting analyst Tom Lemming said. "Now it's `I'm committing to you until something better comes along.'"
Analysts estimate that more than 100 players changed commitments this year, a trend that left coaches tossing and turning on the eve of Wednesday's national signing day.
Minnesota lost four players. Top defensive tackle Aundre Henderson, who pledged his allegiance to Minnesota without stepping foot on its campus, decided instead to stay home and play at Louisville.
Offensive lineman Brad Thorson switched to Wisconsin after the Badgers came late with a scholarship offer.
Minnesota coach Glen Mason would like to see college football adopt an early signing period: "I think it would help [eliminate] some of this ridiculousness that you're seeing take place right now."
Chicago Vocational quarterback Isiah Williams orally committed to Illinois in May but later took an official visit to North Carolina and considered Big Ten powers such as Ohio State and Penn State.
And these days, that's accepted protocol.
Said Illinois coach Ron Zook: "I told my wife at 5:15 this morning that if we're not worried (about losing players who have orally committed), then we're not recruiting the right guys."
At 8:24 a.m., Illinois received Williams' official letter of intent.
"Until that fax came across," Zook said, "I was a wreck."
Notre Dame coach Charlie Weis was less panicky, especially after he had gotten all 27 of his oral commitments in writing.
"We had a couple of bumps," Weis said. "But every one of our guys told me: `Hey, I'm committed and you're committed.' If you're going to expect them to trust you, then you have to trust them also.
"This was a no-sweat day, kind of anticlimactic."
It wasn't that way for Michigan, which on Monday lost cornerback Jai Eugene to his home state Louisiana State Tigers.
This after Eugene donned a Wolverines hat last month to announce his supposed college choice during the nationally televised U.S. Army All-American Bowl.
Maryland was also in the dumps after losing offensive lineman Antonio Logan-El to Penn State. Logan-El, a Forestville, Md., native, committed to play for the Terrapins two years ago.
"It used to be when you made a verbal, other schools would back off," Lemming said. "Nowadays there's no honor or integrity on either side."
Because oral commitments are non-binding, players can accept a scholarship and then back off without repercussion. Technically a school could withdraw an offer if a player gets injured or has a bad senior season, but that rarely happens because of feared repercussions.
After Williams committed to Illinois, he at least was courteous enough to inform the Illini coaches he would be visiting North Carolina.
"He is a very quiet young man, so sometimes he's hard to read," Zook said. "We knew people were pounding on him, but he stayed the course."
Running back Emmanuel Moody, meanwhile, opted for a U-turn. In trying to decide between the nation's top-ranked teams, the appropriately named Moody switched from his home state Texas Longhorns and opted for USC.
Moody told ESPN he was swayed by a visit to Los Angeles and a chat with USC assistant coach Ken Norton Jr.
"He said: `Hey, man, you sound like a California guy. This is where you need to be,'" he recalled.
Even Northwestern benefited, landing well-regarded linebacker Quentin Davie, who originally committed to Duke.
Zook was asked if there are any unwritten rules that govern whether coaches should continue to recruit players who have committed to other schools.
"If there are any," he replied, "I don't know about them."
Lemming attributed the phenomenon in part to recruiting Web sites whose reporters are affiliated with a particular school.
"They call on behalf of their Web site and pound away at the kids," he said.
Mason, after losing those four commitments, would like to see something a little more radical.
"If I had my way," he said, "we would go back to no freshmen being eligible. [That's how] you would stop this funny business in recruiting."
Top 5 who switched
PLAYER OLD SCHOOL
(POS) NEW SCHOOL
Pat Devlin Miami
(QB) to Penn State
Jai Eugene Michigan
(DB) to LSU
Marcus Tillman LSU
(DL) to Mississippi
Michael Goodson Oklahoma St.
(RB) to Texas A&M
Antonio Logan-El Maryland
(OL) to Penn State
Source: CSTV
----------
[email protected]
</pre>
2/5
COLLEGE FOOTBALL SIGNING DAY
Loyal to U . . . never mind
More and more college recruits are breaking their vows
Teddy Greenstein
ON SPORTS MEDIA AND COLLEGES
You no longer have to flip to the Tempo section to read about young men who can't commit.
It's all here in the sports pages: College football recruits who promise to have and to hold until . . . they find a more attractive mate.
"It used to be that you'd shake hands with a coach and say: `I'm committing to you,'" CSTV recruiting analyst Tom Lemming said. "Now it's `I'm committing to you until something better comes along.'"
Analysts estimate that more than 100 players changed commitments this year, a trend that left coaches tossing and turning on the eve of Wednesday's national signing day.
Minnesota lost four players. Top defensive tackle Aundre Henderson, who pledged his allegiance to Minnesota without stepping foot on its campus, decided instead to stay home and play at Louisville.
Offensive lineman Brad Thorson switched to Wisconsin after the Badgers came late with a scholarship offer.
Minnesota coach Glen Mason would like to see college football adopt an early signing period: "I think it would help [eliminate] some of this ridiculousness that you're seeing take place right now."
Chicago Vocational quarterback Isiah Williams orally committed to Illinois in May but later took an official visit to North Carolina and considered Big Ten powers such as Ohio State and Penn State.
And these days, that's accepted protocol.
Said Illinois coach Ron Zook: "I told my wife at 5:15 this morning that if we're not worried (about losing players who have orally committed), then we're not recruiting the right guys."
At 8:24 a.m., Illinois received Williams' official letter of intent.
"Until that fax came across," Zook said, "I was a wreck."
Notre Dame coach Charlie Weis was less panicky, especially after he had gotten all 27 of his oral commitments in writing.
"We had a couple of bumps," Weis said. "But every one of our guys told me: `Hey, I'm committed and you're committed.' If you're going to expect them to trust you, then you have to trust them also.
"This was a no-sweat day, kind of anticlimactic."
It wasn't that way for Michigan, which on Monday lost cornerback Jai Eugene to his home state Louisiana State Tigers.
This after Eugene donned a Wolverines hat last month to announce his supposed college choice during the nationally televised U.S. Army All-American Bowl.
Maryland was also in the dumps after losing offensive lineman Antonio Logan-El to Penn State. Logan-El, a Forestville, Md., native, committed to play for the Terrapins two years ago.
"It used to be when you made a verbal, other schools would back off," Lemming said. "Nowadays there's no honor or integrity on either side."
Because oral commitments are non-binding, players can accept a scholarship and then back off without repercussion. Technically a school could withdraw an offer if a player gets injured or has a bad senior season, but that rarely happens because of feared repercussions.
After Williams committed to Illinois, he at least was courteous enough to inform the Illini coaches he would be visiting North Carolina.
"He is a very quiet young man, so sometimes he's hard to read," Zook said. "We knew people were pounding on him, but he stayed the course."
Running back Emmanuel Moody, meanwhile, opted for a U-turn. In trying to decide between the nation's top-ranked teams, the appropriately named Moody switched from his home state Texas Longhorns and opted for USC.
Moody told ESPN he was swayed by a visit to Los Angeles and a chat with USC assistant coach Ken Norton Jr.
"He said: `Hey, man, you sound like a California guy. This is where you need to be,'" he recalled.
Even Northwestern benefited, landing well-regarded linebacker Quentin Davie, who originally committed to Duke.
Zook was asked if there are any unwritten rules that govern whether coaches should continue to recruit players who have committed to other schools.
"If there are any," he replied, "I don't know about them."
Lemming attributed the phenomenon in part to recruiting Web sites whose reporters are affiliated with a particular school.
"They call on behalf of their Web site and pound away at the kids," he said.
Mason, after losing those four commitments, would like to see something a little more radical.
"If I had my way," he said, "we would go back to no freshmen being eligible. [That's how] you would stop this funny business in recruiting."
Top 5 who switched
PLAYER OLD SCHOOL
(POS) NEW SCHOOL
Pat Devlin Miami
(QB) to Penn State
Jai Eugene Michigan
(DB) to LSU
Marcus Tillman LSU
(DL) to Mississippi
Michael Goodson Oklahoma St.
(RB) to Texas A&M
Antonio Logan-El Maryland
(OL) to Penn State
Source: CSTV
----------
[email protected]
</pre>
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Lemming is criticizing web sites affiliated with individual schools for pounding away at the recruits? Please spare me. He is blaming his competitors for the very thing that he is famous for. How about mentioning the lowering of early commits' individual ranking? Or, perhaps , discussing possible alternative schools (cough, Notre Dame, Nebraska) with potential recruits? There are many things wrong with recruiting, and the "gurus" who try to influence the process are a major part of the problem.
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buckeye247
# 33
Recruiting is such a hit and miss process. You can not judge a player by using the star system. The only way you can tell who had the best class will be 3 years from now. Before its all said and done we could have had the best class. I would rather take a guy that has a motor and less skill than a guy with lots of skill and no motor. Teams win championships not players and Tressle understands that.
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There is far too much pressure on these high school kids, from all directions. Lemming certainly appears to be reacting more to his loss of competitive position, being outed for his Notre Dame support and other practices than to a problem with boards such as BP.
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