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SG Daequan Cook (Ironi Hai Motors Nes-Ziona - Israel)

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Axlrose4eva;772340; said:
Talent wouldnt change regardless. Talent at its very definition is an innate ability. I was specifically replying to a poster who said Cook's game declined when he played with more talented people. Talent doesnt change, thats why a pretty famous expression is "Hard work beats talent when talent doesnt work hard." Talent just refers to the abilities you are endowed with by genes or god. Also bball is one of the few team sports where I truly believe highschoolers could compete with college kids, especially seniors in highschool playing against college freshmen its not that big of a difference. Again talent doenst mean good, I mean NBA players are more talented than European players, but we've seen how far thats gone.
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I think you made this point. Please accept the fact that a lot of us, probably most of us, just don't accept it. And move on.
 
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Axlrose4eva said:
Oh and the Michael Redd thing proves my point. You are right Michael Redd scored abotu 20 points a game his frosh year, how many minutes did he play? how many shots did he take. Redd knew he could fire up whatever he wanted and he was going to stay in the game, also the D that teams played on OSU was pretty lax a lot of times because they were beating OSU by double digits.
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How so? Regardless of his minutes Redd was bagging his shots and playing defense every game. So far we aren't seeing this from Cook. We're also still waiting for your proof that there is any sort of disconnect between Cook and Matta. Please provide us this to back up your previous statements.

Axlrose4eva said:
I really didnt think I needed to say it or clarify anymore but since you are so keen to attack me I will explain again I said talent. Talent is "endowment: natural abilities or qualities". If all Florida players were drafted onto the same NFL team and they made up the entire team, the talent or "natural abilities" would be the same. You said playing with this talent took Cook out of his game. Cook's Spiece team had, Oden, Conley, Gordon, Tucker and himself. Thats 4 5 stars and a 4 star. The lineup he usually plays with now has at most 3 5 stars. So the people who are paid to judge talent would say that Spiece team was more talented.

Again talent, not who would win or who is better or anything...talent=endowment:natural abilities or qualities.
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Also, the dictionary defines talent as "A special aptitude" which could also be defined as "A special capability for performing a particular task or skill" which could include a number of factors such as work ethic, mental toughness, etc... The dictionary isn't going to win you this debate.
 
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Golferdow01 said:
How so? Regardless of his minutes Redd was bagging his shots and playing defense every game. So far we aren't seeing this from Cook. We're also still waiting for your proof that there is any sort of disconnect between Cook and Matta. Please provide us this to back up your previous statements.



Also, the dictionary defines talent as "A special aptitude" which could also be defined as "A special capability for performing a particular task or skill" which could include a number of factors such as work ethic, mental toughness, etc... The dictionary isn't going to win you this debate.
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its hard to compare the two. redd played on a team that was what 1 and 15 in b10 play? and he wasnt "bagging shots" come big ten play redd was struggling to hit the broadside of a barn. granted his ability to get to the rim got him most of his points. he was the #1 #2 #3 option on an awful team...

on cook. what i see is a guy who has been reigned in. he isnt the same freelancing, shooting, scoring thing he was in novemeber. for better or worse matta has forced everyone, cook, lewis, harris and hunter come to mind to play within in the offense. cook has yet to make a transition into this fully accepting his role within the team fully at both ends of the court. i dont see this awful player some of you guys seem to see. i see a work in progress. the same thing i see with oden. both physically need some work to play in the most physical conference in the ncaa.


also i am begining to really wonder if its more of a mental things. we have seen mattas very simple 15 to 17 sets turn into about double that to 40ish depending on the game. i wonder if cook is struggling within the strucutre of so many sets. i think its a very valid point. (interestingly enough izzo is famous for the most sets usually having 80 to 90 by tournament time, thus i think making his teams nearly unscoutable in the ncaas and leading to a ton of success.)
 
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jimotis4heisman;772552; said:
its hard to compare the two. redd played on a team that was what 1 and 15 in b10 play? and he wasnt "bagging shots" come big ten play redd was struggling to hit the broadside of a barn. granted his ability to get to the rim got him most of his points. he was the #1 #2 #3 option on an awful team...

on cook. what i see is a guy who has been reigned in. he isnt the same freelancing, shooting, scoring thing he was in novemeber. for better or worse matta has forced everyone, cook, lewis, harris and hunter come to mind to play within in the offense. cook has yet to make a transition into this fully accepting his role within the team fully at both ends of the court. i dont see this awful player some of you guys seem to see. i see a work in progress. the same thing i see with oden. both physically need some work to play in the most physical conference in the ncaa.


also i am begining to really wonder if its more of a mental things. we have seen mattas very simple 15 to 17 sets turn into about double that to 40ish depending on the game. i wonder if cook is struggling within the strucutre of so many sets. i think its a very valid point. (interestingly enough izzo is famous for the most sets usually having 80 to 90 by tournament time, thus i think making his teams nearly unscoutable in the ncaas and leading to a ton of success.)
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Point taken, he shot 44% for the year. I don't think we have people seeing him as awful, I see him as a work in progress as well.

My major beef is commenting that there is some sort of disconnect between Cook and Matta. When stating something like that, you must back it up with some sort of evidence or you are being very irresponsible and confusing facts with opinions.
 
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Golferdow01;772575; said:
Point taken, he shot 44% for the year. I don't think we have people seeing him as awful, I see him as a work in progress as well.

My major beef is commenting that there is some sort of disconnect between Cook and Matta. When stating something like that, you must back it up with some sort of evidence or you are being very irresponsible and confusing facts with opinions.
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I believe he is basing this on some actions while on the bench and his mom's comments...
 
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Having watched Daequan in Dayton for the last 3 years prior to going to OSU, the thing that seems to be holding him back is the "slow down" the game has taken on with Oden. At Dunbar he didn't have to play much team defense. Not true here. At Dunbar when his team needed him he took the game over and had a "this game is mine" mentality and his coaches encouraged it. Definitely not the go to guy here. He could be the go to guy but with Oden in the middle and DC's quiet demeanor as far as leadership I think he's still trying to figure out just when to explode and when to defer to his teammates. The looking toward the bench just shows some indecision to me and is probably showing coach Matta some confusion, hence more frequent substitution in favor of the seniors. At any moment we could see Cook bust out again and gel with Conley and Oden which is bad news for everyone else. Of course, we may not see him completely flourish in his new role until next year, if ever here. Make no mistake though, Daequan Cook is one of the best basketball players in the nation when he's in his environment which is loose and energized, not so much the halfcourt and dump game.
 
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Golferdow01;772839; said:
I wanted to hear his reasoning but thanks CBF :)
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"He gets in the game tries to hard to do exactly what Matta wants, because if he doesnt hes on the bench the rest of the game. He seems to be the only player Matta has every coached like this. Matta let Sylvester run wild, and Lewis gets minutes whether he plays great like today or goes 2/10 with 2 charges and 4 to's. If I were advising Cook id tell him to go to the NBA. Why should he learn the college game? Hes got a great midrange jumper, all the athleticism in the world and his family from all reports wants him to go pro. I dont want him to go pro cause im an OSU fan, but I think he probably should. Something is up with he and Matta, im not sure what it is but its something."

Hmm...golfer i really think you need to work on some reading comprehension skills. That is what I posted. I never said, "I have heard them fight." That is what I posted. It clearly site examples of players who were allowed to run wild, did not recieve playing time based on specific performances and who generally seemed more happy. I sited examples of times Cook looked upset and when Matta tried to take Cook out of the game, only to have an assistant push Cook back on the court.

Also if thats your dictionaries definition of talent, and it doesnt say endowed or natural, i suggest you invest in a new dictionary.
 
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Axlrose4eva;773104; said:
"He gets in the game tries to hard to do exactly what Matta wants, because if he doesnt hes on the bench the rest of the game. He seems to be the only player Matta has every coached like this. Matta let Sylvester run wild, and Lewis gets minutes whether he plays great like today or goes 2/10 with 2 charges and 4 to's. If I were advising Cook id tell him to go to the NBA. Why should he learn the college game? Hes got a great midrange jumper, all the athleticism in the world and his family from all reports wants him to go pro. I dont want him to go pro cause im an OSU fan, but I think he probably should. Something is up with he and Matta, im not sure what it is but its something."

Hmm...golfer i really think you need to work on some reading comprehension skills. That is what I posted. I never said, "I have heard them fight." That is what I posted. It clearly site examples of players who were allowed to run wild, did not recieve playing time based on specific performances and who generally seemed more happy. I sited examples of times Cook looked upset and when Matta tried to take Cook out of the game, only to have an assistant push Cook back on the court.

Also if thats your dictionaries definition of talent, and it doesnt say endowed or natural, i suggest you invest in a new dictionary.
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It is called experience, and right now Lewis has a lot more over Cook...

Matta did the same thing with Butler his freshmen season, told him not to shoot, but to go in there and play good strong D...But he let BFC go shoot all over the court...

All turned out well for Butler...
 
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Axlrose4eva said:
He gets in the game tries to hard to do exactly what Matta wants, because if he doesnt hes on the bench the rest of the game. He seems to be the only player Matta has every coached like this. Matta let Sylvester run wild, and Lewis gets minutes whether he plays great like today or goes 2/10 with 2 charges and 4 to's. If I were advising Cook id tell him to go to the NBA. Why should he learn the college game? Hes got a great midrange jumper, all the athleticism in the world and his family from all reports wants him to go pro. I dont want him to go pro cause im an OSU fan, but I think he probably should. Something is up with he and Matta, im not sure what it is but its something."
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Lewis is a senior, Sylvester was a senior, Cook is a freshman. In Matta's eyes and in the eyes of many fans, he hasn't earned the right to run the game his way. Matta did the same thing with Butler and he's turned out to be a fine OSU player, yet you say he's never done this before. Are you kidding me? Matta isn't coaching Cook to get him into the NBA, and it's not his job. His job is to build a good program and win championships. If Cook is more interested in going to the NBA than contributing to our team winning a championship THAD's way then that is his own problem. Again, you have no proof whatsoever for your statements and you even admit you are turning to your gut feeling.

Axlrose4eva said:
Hmm...golfer i really think you need to work on some reading comprehension skills. That is what I posted. I never said, "I have heard them fight." That is what I posted. It clearly site examples of players who were allowed to run wild, did not recieve playing time based on specific performances and who generally seemed more happy. I sited examples of times Cook looked upset and when Matta tried to take Cook out of the game, only to have an assistant push Cook back on the court.
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Well you did say this:

I really dont think he and Matta have been clicking
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So therefore you think there's trouble brewing between the two. I never used the word "fight" in any of my posts so maybe your reading comprehension skills are the ones who should be in question. Also, you haven't cited a single example in the last two pages of Cook ever looking upset.

Axlrose4eva said:
Also if thats your dictionaries definition of talent, and it doesnt say endowed or natural, i suggest you invest in a new dictionary.
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Last attempt for you to win this one. When you make idiotic post after post, you going to continue to be questioned.

Welcome to the Jungle pal.
 
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DDN

OSU's Cook is Big Ten's top sixth man


​

By Mark Gokavi
Staff Writer

Wednesday, March 07, 2007

On a team with "nine starters," Ohio State freshman Daequan Cook on Tuesday was named the Big Ten's Sixth Man of the Year.
Ohio State men's basketball coach Thad Matta regularly says his No. 1 Buckeyes have nine starters. Cook, a Dunbar graduate, started one of OSU's 30 regular-season games.

Cont'd...
 
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DDN

Dunbar's Cook adjusts to role playing at OSU

Dayton native was one of the Buckeyes' go-to guys on offense before Oden joined the lineup.http://www.daytondailynews.com/s/content/oh/story/sports/college/osu/2007/03/09/ddn030907cook.html#




By Mark Gokavi
Staff Writer

Friday, March 09, 2007

COLUMBUS ? Daequan Cook sat and talked after a recent practice, admiring teammates dunking. It's a view he's gotten used to.
Cook probably would start for all but a handful of college basketball teams. He just happens to be at Ohio State ? one of those ultra-talented teams.
 
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Great game today off the bench for Cook. He had a strong rebound presense and was playing some good defense at times that I could notice. He went a little one-on-one a couple of times that I didnt think was very good but other times he excelled in his role. Keep it up Daequan, we're gonna need you.
 
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