tOSU graduation rates

[OH10]

Comes with the territory of being one of the marquee teams this year. I notice you're not shedding any tears for Florida. That paragraph was in terms of the #1 seeds, so if Tennessee was #1 and you guys were #5, Tennessee would get the knock.

Frankly I'm surprised at how few of you think this is a problem. There's more shooting the messenger (at least the first page of responses) and less worrying about what it does to OSU's reputation. For example, don't think for a minute that that kind of thing doesn't get used as a recruiting tool against you guys. "Don't let your son go play for Ohio State, they don't care about education....look, here are the numbers to prove it."

I don't think I said it wasn't a problem. Don't put words in my mouth.

Obviously, I'm upset at the way the headlines read to crucify Ohio State for obvious problems from a decade ago. The problems concern me, but the poor light it sheds on the current Ohio State staff pisses me off. Thad Matta and his coaching staff have nothing to do with that statistic.

But please don't confuse my anger for a lack of embarrassment. It's very concerning that just 38% of Ohio State basketball players were graduating. But if Ron Lewis and Ivan Harris graduate, I want them to put up a headline that says "100% of Ohio State players graduating." It would be just as accurate a headline.

 

[jwinslow]

You can't blame the guy for taking 10 years to compile the data when he correctly takes data from several years' worth of classes and gives them six years to graduate. To claim that those were the problems of 10 years ago is to say that those freshman classes were screwed from the very beginning and were never gonna graduate anyway.

He could acknowledge the exact opposite trend under Matta thus far... but that wouldn't be as juicy of an article.

 

[Sky]

He could acknowledge the exact opposite trend under Matta thus far... but that wouldn't be as juicy of an article.

And thats the point right there. That is what bothers me about this article. Why wait till now, why wait until the #1 seeds are released. It seems an awful lot like the underdog taking his shot when he can because they can't compete on other levels.

Of course we tOSU fans will always think ESPN is out to get us given some of their past performances but at the same time some of their efforts seem quite devious.

 

[CookyPuss]

Oh, put a sock in it. We're talking a bloody decade ago, a period when Ohio State was going through a very rough patch in this regard and in which we now know that O'Brien may have felt pressured to make more than a couple of bad decisions.

Some of those guys were Ayres' recruits. A bit ironic that it was a black coach recruiting all these guys who bombed out and now tOSU is being criticized for not graduating black players. I don't think they could have picked a worse 4 years for that study from a tOSU standpoint. O'Brien had to kick a bunch of Ayres' guys off the team his first year and I seem to remember several guys from his first recruiting class (Jamie Bosley) getting into trouble and being dismissed. So now tOSU gets slammed for cleaning out the riff-raff. I'm sure those same media criticizing now were the same ones banging the drum to boot those guys of the team for being "troublemakers."

 

[zincfinger]

Why wait till now, why wait until the #1 seeds are released. It seems an awful lot like the underdog taking his shot when he can because they can't compete on other levels.

Of course we tOSU fans will always think ESPN is out to get us given some of their past performances but at the same time some of their efforts seem quite devious.

That has nothing to do with ESPN having a vendetta against OSU (and I have no idea by what system of competition ESPN could be considered an underdog relative to OSU). No, it's solely about generating readership and viewership interest. A story about the graduation rates of a middle of the road program is going to generate a lot less interest than a story about the graduation rates of a top-ranked program. The latter makes a "story", the former is just a pointless observation.

 

[Sky]

That has nothing to do with ESPN having a vendetta against OSU (and I have no idea by what system of competition ESPN could be considered an underdog relative to OSU). No, it's solely about generating readership and viewership interest. A story about the graduation rates of a middle of the road program is going to generate a lot less interest than a story about the graduation rates of a top-ranked program. The latter makes a "story", the former is just a pointless observation.

Should have clarified, by underdog I meant the group that releases these reports, not ESPN.

But I agree with your second point. If this were Miami University or Ohio U you wouldn't hear anything about it.

 

[buckeyes_rock]

wouldn't the credit go to the student athlete?

I must have missed when somebody decided that Universities and coaches were in charge of graduating their kids.....but that's the way it has been since it was in style to bash the top programs of any sport.

I wonder who gets the credit for regular students graduating.

This is so true. I played Div I basketball and I can tell you that the student-athletes who wanted to succeed academically did. The ones who were only there for basketball did not. The resources available to help student-athletes are there. You don't have to be Craig Krenzel smart to graduate while playing a sport. You just have to be disciplined and work at it. And I'm sure there are coaches out there who don't stress academics as much. Once again...this is where the student-athlete needs to take some responsibility for their own future. I get so sick of hearing how it's the coach's fault when players don't graduate.

 

[sandgk]

Ladies and Gentlemen - if you live in a town called Hell, please step outside and check the weather. I'm pretty sure it has become mighty frosty.

Why do I say that?

Because John Kincade (pinch-htting for Colin Cowherd) has just spent the best part of an hour lambasting Lapchick for releasing graduation rate data, based on a '96-'98 cohort not two days before the start of an NCAA tournament that does not involve any kids belonging to that cohort.

He laid out very plainly and logically that Lapchick's agenda (and timing) were self-serving. That the data doesn't have direct relevance to the young men in the tournament. That, frankly, at the end of the day, most non-alumni fans of these institutions see a distant connection between his report and the action they will be glued to in less than a day. That, in truth, alumni of the schools named recognize that many factors go into a graduation rate - and the greatest of these is the discipline of the student athletes themselves. That this is all window dressing, if the NCAA wanted to do something serious about these matters they could have done so a long time ago. Moreover he stressed how little context there is to the Lapchick report - what are the typical graduation rates for any incoming cohort? What is the statistical relevance of a report that focusses on a small team sport, where early departures to the pros, or through academic failure can dramatically alter the graduation rate.

I was honestly astonished. At least one radio talk show host with the ability to look beyond the headlines. Besides, you have to give a tip of the hat to a loon who at the age of seventeen shaved a dog and glued the hair to his chest so he would look more like a manly man.

 

[OH10]

Just for reference, these are the players that the report is referring to:

Jami Bosley ? 1996 (transfer)

Brian Brown ? 1999 through 2002

Neshaun Coleman ? 1996-1999

Will Dudley ? 1999-2002

Scott Gradney ? 1996 (transfer)

Ken Johnson ? 1998-2001

Scoonie Penn 1999-2000

Michael Redd ? 1998-2000 (left early for the NBA)

George Reese ? 1999-2000

Jon Sanderson 1998-1999 (transfer)

Jason Singleton ? 1996-1999

Devon Smith ? 1999-2000

Kwadjo Steele ? 1997-2000

Shaun Stonerook ? 1996-1997 (transfer)

Damon Stringer ? 1996-1997 (transfer)

Jermaine Tate ? 1996 (transfer)

 

[BuckeyeInTheBoro]

Just for reference, these are the players that the report is referring to:...

Thank you. That is exactly what I was looking for. Where did you find the old rosters?

So now the questions raised (in my mind) by the report is which of these guys graduated and why did so many drop out without transferring? What could tOSU have done differently?

I suspect that what we could have done differently in many cases was not recruiting many of these guys at all. I wonder why the author thinks that would be better? He must think it's better to never try than to try and fail I suppose.

 

[OH10]

Thank you. That is exactly what I was looking for. Where did you find the old rosters?

From the athletic website. They have all players that have ever lettered listed and the years.

I think it's interesting that the sports news sites and newspapers continue to hammer the 10% home as opposed to the 38%, which is a far more accurate figure considering the transfers from those years.

To put it into perspective, Texas A&M was 9% excluding transfers, while Ohio State was 38%. Obviously, this is still not a number to brag about, but it is far more accurate than the one being put into the headlines.

 

[methomps]

FYI, these studies are always released right before bowl season (for football) or the tourney (for bball). It has nothing to do with tOSU specifically.

 

[Buckeyeskickbuttocks]

So, am I to understand that Ohio State is nothing more than a basketball factory?

 

[808 Buck]

the student-athletes who wanted to succeed academically did.

The resources available to help student-athletes are there.

Once again...this is where the student-athlete needs to take some responsibility for their own future.

You just have to be disciplined and work at it.

Agree with all of the above.

 

[osugrad21]

Dispatch

After the final buzzer, few earn their degrees
Thursday, March 15, 2007
Jill Riepenhoff and Todd Jones
THE COLUMBUS DISPATCH


While other kids in his Brooklyn neighborhood spent weekends shooting baskets at the playground, young Will Dudley visited Big Apple monuments, museums and libraries on his own.

Cont'd...