Violence in the Talmud?

[muffler dragon]

Perhaps... but how do we know?

For me, it's quite simple (and more fitting for the other Biblical thread), because it's based on the evidence and the lack of finished business so to say. Couple this with there being no overt statement or consideration about a second "advent"/"go at it"/etc. and the probability is rather low.

IMO, the Jewish Messiah was already here about 2,000 years ago...

Understood. As I used to believe this as well, I know where you're coming from.

The person who is King of the Jewish Nation who claims to be God is infact, the anti-christ of the Christians..

I have to ask since you raise the "king" issue: at what point in Jesus' life was he anointed king according to the protocol established in the Jewish Bible? Furthermore, doesn't his equivocation when asked this very question cause any concern for you? Especially in light of his response that his kingdom wasn't of this world? Not to be flippant, but I could proclaim myself as king of another world, and it would be just a difficult to prove/disprove. However, considering the fact that there were things in the Tanakh that coulda/shoulda/woulda been fulfilled regarding the role of king and messiah; then it becomes a little bit more easy to determine fact from fiction.

So I do think they are related.. I think the 12th Imam will be coming into play here as well... perhaps the false prophet?

I must admit that my interest in Christian eschatology dissipated greatly upon my departure from the belief structure. Thus, I'll have to say, "That's cool".

 

[Bleed S & G]

I have to ask since you raise the "king" issue: at what point in Jesus' life was he anointed king according to the protocol established in the Jewish Bible?

I don't know the answer to this one..

I guess, I never thought Christ was anointed King. That is what the Jews are looking for in their Messiah though, correct?

Furthermore, doesn't his equivocation when asked this very question cause any concern for you? Especially in light of his response that his kingdom wasn't of this world?

Christ never said he was the king..

36 Jesus said, "My kingdom is not of this world. If it were, my servants would fight to prevent my arrest by the Jewish leaders. But now my kingdom is from another place."

37 "You are a king, then!" said Pilate.

Jesus answered, "You say that I am a king. In fact, the reason I was born and came into the world is to testify to the truth. Everyone on the side of truth listens to me."

Personally, I don't know if Christ was God or not - he very well may have been the greatest prophet. IMO, the conditions for a messiah were celebrated in many men before Christ in pagan teachings and their gods. Virgin births, lamb of lambs, resurrections after 3 days, etc.

I must admit that my interest in Christian eschatology dissipated greatly upon my departure from the belief structure. Thus, I'll have to say, "That's cool".

Word.

I think what I was referring to in my last post went over the wrong way.. let me try to clarify:

Lets split this up...

The Christians believe Christ was the messiah, and that the anti-christ will be a man possessed by the devil, who will do good things and deceive many. He will be the leader (king) of the Jewish nation at the end of times when the temple is rebuilt.

The Jews believe their messiah is still to come. They are seeking a military/political leader who will re-establish the temple.

Do you see how I am tieing the two into each other?

 

[muffler dragon]

I don't know the answer to this one..

I guess, I never thought Christ was anointed King. That is what the Jews are looking for in their Messiah though, correct?

Technically, messiah means anointed. A King is most certainly anointed, but many other offices are as well. In regards to the Jewish Messiah, he will be a king from the Davidic line.

Christ never said he was the king..

36 Jesus said, "My kingdom is not of this world. If it were, my servants would fight to prevent my arrest by the Jewish leaders. But now my kingdom is from another place."

37 "You are a king, then!" said Pilate.

Jesus answered, "You say that I am a king. In fact, the reason I was born and came into the world is to testify to the truth. Everyone on the side of truth listens to me."

I just went back and read your post that I was commenting on about "king", and found that I was misunderstanding your statement. My apologies. I would like to refer back to your statement and make a clarification:

The person who is King of the Jewish Nation who claims to be God is infact, the anti-christ of the Christians..

1) The Jewish Messiah will not claim to be G-d. This would be blasphemous and a repudiation of the very Torah that the Messiah would desire to uphold.
2) As far as who the anti-Christ of Christianity is, I can't venture a guess as I don't believe that person will exist at any time.

Personally, I don't know if Christ was God or not - he very well may have been the greatest prophet.

Very interesting. So do you consider yourself a Unitarian Christian then? Or even a Christian at all?

IMO, the conditions for a messiah were celebrated in many men before Christ in pagan teachings and their gods. Virgin births, lamb of lambs, resurrections after 3 days, etc.

I wouldn't say that it was necessarily a Christ/Messiah consideration as much as "saviour of the world" matter. But I understand what you mean nonetheless.

I think what I was referring to in my last post went over the wrong way.. let me try to clarify:

Lets split this up...

The Christians believe Christ was the messiah, and that the anti-christ will be a man possessed by the devil, who will do good things and deceive many. He will be the leader (king) of the Jewish nation at the end of times when the temple is rebuilt.

The Jews believe their messiah is still to come. They are seeking a military/political leader who will re-establish the temple.

Do you see how I am tieing the two into each other?

I do. However, I must admit that since it's been over five years since I left Christianity, I don't really recall all the idiosyncracies of the revelation eschatology. I don't recall the anti-Christ as being Jewish, but I'm sure that's something that has been charted. I do know that there are some who do believe that the Jewish Messiah will be the Christian anti-Christ. However, I don't think that is the majority view. But I could be quite wrong.

 

[Bleed S & G]

Very interesting. So do you consider yourself a Unitarian Christian then? Or even a Christian at all?

I don't know.. I guess I consider myself a Christian in that I subscribe to Christ's teachings and attempt to live the way he taught.

We could go on for days about my views, I think I've created a new "religion"

 

[muffler dragon]

I don't know.. I guess I consider myself a Christian in that I subscribe to Christ's teachings and attempt to live the way he taught.

I can appreciate that.

Just to be an a-hole, how are you coming on that "hate" towards your family members?

(I know that you're talking about the positive commandments instead of the negative).

We could go on for days about my views, I think I've created a new "religion"

So, which multiple personality of BKB's are you?

 

[Muck]

As described in book of John and pertaining to revelation..

Nevermind then. I tend to avoid discussions when it comes to anything tainted by millennialists.

Just put me squarely in the "Anti-christ + Revelation = non Biblical & made up" camp.

 

[Bleed S & G]

Just to be an a-hole, how are you coming on that "hate" towards your family members?

Nevermind then. I tend to avoid discussions when it comes to anything tainted by millennialists.

Just put me squarely in the "Anti-christ + Revelation = non Biblical & made up" camp.

What do you mean? Tainted?

My understanding is the Millennialists beleifs were formed around a specific part of revelation - but not that they changed anything..

The entire "bible" is tainted by man....

 

[muffler dragon]

I don't know.. I guess I consider myself a Christian in that I subscribe to Christ's teachings and attempt to live the way he taught.

Just to be an a-hole, how are you coming on that "hate" towards your family members?

This is what I meant:

Luke 14
26"If anyone comes to me and does not hate his father and mother, his wife and children, his brothers and sisters?yes, even his own life?he cannot be my disciple.