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What kind of car do you drive?

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Saw what I believe was either a '64 or '65 2 door Plymouth Valiant on a curb last night during my evening jog. I know it runs. Decent shape, not a pristine show car or anything. Would definitely need an upholster and coat of paint.

What would be a fair offer price for a project like that? There was a For Sale sign in the driver side window with a phone number but no asking price.
 
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Jake said:
Purchased a 2017 Mercedes-Benz CLA 250 4matic today. Traded in my 2013 C300 with 42,000 miles - my first Mercedes - and got a better deal this time around.

Can't wait for some sunny days to open up the panoramic moonroof and put the turbo to the test. :cool:
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What's Melba Toast packing?

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Jake said:
Purchased a 2017 Mercedes-Benz CLA 250 4matic today. Traded in my 2013 C300 with 42,000 miles - my first Mercedes - and got a better deal this time around.

Can't wait for some sunny days to open up the panoramic moonroof and put the turbo to the test. :cool:
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Those are two sweet rides, Jake. I'll be putting my 85 300D back on the road this month, the old girl just turned 333K last time I had it out.
 
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ORD_Buckeye said:
Bye-bye, Tesla. With Audi introducing the "Tesla Killer" Q6 next year, and VW investing 10B a year to hit them from the other side, I really just don't see how they have the pathways to growth to become a long term profitable and stable company.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/11/16/business/volkswagen-electric-cars/index.html
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Most those cars will have limited runs and therefore not make much of a dent w/ Tesla.
The problems Tesla have are numerous though:
- While these limited runs wont affect Tesla sales much, other companies wont need to pay 200mil / quarter for ZEV credits. And without that, there goes their 300mil profit.
- cant make the 35k car at profit -> limited demand at 49k+
- They exhausted demand at 49k in Q2
- Q3 margins were a one-time thing as they sold all the 70k trim levels and exhausted that demand
- Now they're stripping batteries to make a 45k compromise... but margins will be even lower than Q2 (they lost a lot of money)
- Q3 was also propped up by a 1time 800mil sale of all their dealership loaners to Enterprise... theyve spun it as a new car sale but its actually a divestiture of assets and Enterprise will make that back every time Tesla pays them to provide a car during warranty work
- Speaking of warranty... theyre shipping cars with repairs already scheduled.
- in Norway - previously a huge market for them - theyve gained a reputation similar to Alfa Romeo
- Trade war has cut China off completely. They made something like 10 sales there.
- While theyre in a cash crisis with a ton of debt due Q1 of 2019, they have given up on capex, expanding service centers (see what happened in Norway repeating w/ US consumers), and dont even have the means to offer leases (the name of the game in the luxury segments that Three competes in)
- Theyre open to legal action regarding the fraudulent "Full Self Driving" package they've been selling for 5k that is not functional and never will be.
- All the false advertising on 35k pricepoint could also be interesting



Things Tesla has going for them:
- An irrational cult like following not unlike Apple.
 
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kujirakira said:
Most those cars will have limited runs and therefore not make much of a dent w/ Tesla.
The problems Tesla have are numerous though:
- While these limited runs wont affect Tesla sales much, other companies wont need to pay 200mil / quarter for ZEV credits. And without that, there goes their 300mil profit.
- cant make the 35k car at profit -> limited demand at 49k+
- They exhausted demand at 49k in Q2
- Q3 margins were a one-time thing as they sold all the 70k trim levels and exhausted that demand
- Now they're stripping batteries to make a 45k compromise... but margins will be even lower than Q2 (they lost a lot of money)
- Q3 was also propped up by a 1time 800mil sale of all their dealership loaners to Enterprise... theyve spun it as a new car sale but its actually a divestiture of assets and Enterprise will make that back every time Tesla pays them to provide a car during warranty work
- Speaking of warranty... theyre shipping cars with repairs already scheduled.
- in Norway - previously a huge market for them - theyve gained a reputation similar to Alfa Romeo
- Trade war has cut China off completely. They made something like 10 sales there.
- While theyre in a cash crisis with a ton of debt due Q1 of 2019, they have given up on capex, expanding service centers (see what happened in Norway repeating w/ US consumers), and dont even have the means to offer leases (the name of the game in the luxury segments that Three competes in)
- Theyre open to legal action regarding the fraudulent "Full Self Driving" package they've been selling for 5k that is not functional and never will be.
- All the false advertising on 35k pricepoint could also be interesting



Things Tesla has going for them:
- An irrational cult like following not unlike Apple.
Click to expand...
That shit wouldn't fly at the Red Head in Duncan Falls.
 
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kujirakira said:
Most those cars will have limited runs and therefore not make much of a dent w/ Tesla.
The problems Tesla have are numerous though:
- While these limited runs wont affect Tesla sales much, other companies wont need to pay 200mil / quarter for ZEV credits. And without that, there goes their 300mil profit.
- cant make the 35k car at profit -> limited demand at 49k+
- They exhausted demand at 49k in Q2
- Q3 margins were a one-time thing as they sold all the 70k trim levels and exhausted that demand
- Now they're stripping batteries to make a 45k compromise... but margins will be even lower than Q2 (they lost a lot of money)
- Q3 was also propped up by a 1time 800mil sale of all their dealership loaners to Enterprise... theyve spun it as a new car sale but its actually a divestiture of assets and Enterprise will make that back every time Tesla pays them to provide a car during warranty work
- Speaking of warranty... theyre shipping cars with repairs already scheduled.
- in Norway - previously a huge market for them - theyve gained a reputation similar to Alfa Romeo
- Trade war has cut China off completely. They made something like 10 sales there.
- While theyre in a cash crisis with a ton of debt due Q1 of 2019, they have given up on capex, expanding service centers (see what happened in Norway repeating w/ US consumers), and dont even have the means to offer leases (the name of the game in the luxury segments that Three competes in)
- Theyre open to legal action regarding the fraudulent "Full Self Driving" package they've been selling for 5k that is not functional and never will be.
- All the false advertising on 35k pricepoint could also be interesting



Things Tesla has going for them:
- An irrational cult like following not unlike Apple.
Click to expand...

I've thought for a longtime that Elon Musk is a charlatan and he's going to have a John Delorean -esque implosion eventually. I greatly look forward to it.
 
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kujirakira said:
Things Tesla has going for them:
- An irrational cult like following not unlike Apple.
Click to expand...

The Apple cult can at least justify the premium by pointing to an unusually superb track record of fit, finish, and packaging.

Tesla spent the summer assembling cars by hand in refugee tents in the desert because their factory didn’t work, so I’ve seen Teslas where quarter panels had uneven gaps and doors weren’t hung evenly.

Tesla’s cult is tied almost entirely to the cult of Musk and the stock price. Nothing Tesla has done or will ever do justifies a valuation at more than a 10x multiple like any other car company.

Musks genius, at least in regards to Tesla, was making a sporty EV that looks like a Nissan 4 door sedan instead of following every other company, who apparently thinks the EV market should only cater to lovers of 2 door hatchbacks that look like aquariums with wheels.

If Toyota decides to make an EV Solara tomorrow, that’d put a massive dent in Tesla.
 
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Dryden said:
The Apple cult can at least justify the premium by pointing to an unusually superb track record of fit, finish, and packaging.

Tesla spent the summer assembling cars by hand in refugee tents in the desert because their factory didn’t work, so I’ve seen Teslas where quarter panels had uneven gaps and doors weren’t hung evenly.

Tesla’s cult is tied almost entirely to the cult of Musk and the stock price. Nothing Tesla has done or will ever do justifies a valuation at more than a 10x multiple like any other car company.

Musks genius, at least in regards to Tesla, was making a sporty EV that looks like a Nissan 4 door sedan instead of following every other company, who apparently thinks the EV market should only cater to lovers of 2 door hatchbacks that look like aquariums with wheels.

If Toyota decides to make an EV Solara tomorrow, that’d put a massive dent in Tesla.
Click to expand...

I'm going to disagree on Apple quality; but it's at least average with the other big names if overpriced. They've never really had a problem turning profit with or without the cult markup, either ... it's the difference between respectable profit and silly profit.
Tesla has 2 Quarters of profit in some 10 years of operating. And this last one has "creative accounting" written all over it. Seems more like Enron to me.

Agree on the Tesla looks. But to be fair, other makes were following the Prius' lead. Prius was made intentionally ugly b/c that's what the market showed buyers wanted -- they wanted everyone to instantly know they had a Prius (virtue signalling) and there's not a lot of ways to do that beyond making it look quirky. Leaf, i3, Bolt, etc. followed suit.
Musk had the sense to realize the mainstream didn't want that and made their car look attractive. I particularly like the S' styling. Less a fan of the minivan ... and Three seems to go back down the virtue signalling hole a little for me.

Toyota doesn't seem interested in pure EVs. I see some reason there - pure EVs are only worth it as a daily beater at ~25k and if you can charge overnight in your own garage. Pricepoint isn't quite there and limited homeowner demographic. Electrification is imminent -- but hybrids will run the show for the foreseeable future. They already dominate motorsport, the hypercars, the Panamera's success has ushered in a rush to make plug-in hybrid executives, Toyota/Nissan/BMW all have hybrid luxury performance cars ... to accompany what the Prius has accomplished on the mainstream level. Hybridization is the new boost.
On that note, Nissan's serial hybrids are making a lot of headway in Japan (unlike the Leaf)... powertrain is all EV with a 3cyl generator to keep batteries charged. The optioned out version of a Versa hatchback in that config comes at 180man yen - or about $16k. Similar idea to the Volt at a much lower price.
 
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