So, what are you waiting for? Don't let your brothers down, get out there and procreate!max_sterling said:
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The relationship between academics and playcalling is indirect, at best. Of course, not taking care of business in the classroom is a good way to end up on the bench. Tressel doesn't forsake the shotgun for the I-formation, or call more runs than passes because certain people may not be cutting it in the classroom. If he is doing that, there's some problems in this program. The only way that would be possible is if academic failure decimates the roster to the extent that it you simply don't have the personnel to run certain types of plays. That's a completely different thing from proactively cutting things back so a kid can spend less time studying the playbook and more time studying textbooks. If what you're proposing is the case, then I sure do feel sorry for what Urban Meyer is going to do to the academic reputation of the University of Florida - because I can assure you that that playbook is going to be loaded down there, and they're not going to go three and out so the freshmen can spend more time on their textbooks.jackson said:
Besides, I thought Jim Tressel was recruiting smarter players, and that Admissions was raising standards. If all of this is true, then these kids are plenty smart enough to do their homework and learn the playbook at the same time. I really doubt Jim Tressel treats his players like babies. Going to class and earning good grades should be an expectation, as should learning and working hard on the football team.
Everytime somebody new comes into the Buckeye fold, some Buckeye geek anoints the kid a "Tressel-type kid". And this is supposed to mean that the kid is intelligent, athletically gifted, mature, and responsible. You know, the type that can handle all of the responsibilities that come with being a big-time scholar-athlete.
There's a disconnect here with this Saint Tressel image, and I think you're inflating his humanitarian attributes just a bit too much. If he's dumbing things down for the entire team in order for them to cut it in the classroom, what does that say about the quality of the kids he's recruiting? I'm gonna give the benefit of the doubt to the kids - I think they are good enough to be able to do both.
Jim Tressel though, (let's not kid ourselves) is a football coach first and foremost. I'm not saying that he doesn't care about the kids off the field, because he does - he goes the extra mile to make sure these kids succeed. But the plays he runs in practice and the plays he calls on the field are aimed at making this team successful on the field first and foremost. I think his approach is pretty evident when watching the game and when he speaks with the public. I think I captured part of that in my earlier post, and you captured some of that in the back half of the post I'm quoting here.
Freshmen are hardly ever asked to be major contributors out of the gate, even on a team as young and inexperienced as last year's. This thread was originally about playcalling, and playcalling affects the guys that are on the field, who in nearly every case, have at least one or two years under their belt. That being the case, do you mean to tell me that Jim Tressel was calling plays close to the vest because a bunch of redshirt sophomores and true juniors were still getting acclamated to doing homework? I don't think so.
Academics are important, and they do affect what players do get on the field. I think you have it the wrong way around though. Jim Tressel sets certain expectations for his players, and it's their responsibility to meet those expectations, not his responsibility to meet their level of achievement or effort. That is the reason #29 is in the doghouse, not because the playbook was too big for him to do his classwork.
I can agree with you on this point, strictly in and the on-the-field, football sense. This program lost 14 players to the NFL last year, and I don't think anybody, including Jim Tressel, knew quite what to expect out of them. The team was young and inexperienced. I think your analogy is apt in describing the play of last year's team. I don't think though, that the evolved gameplanning was a result of Jim Tressel being more comfortable with the academic performance of his team than he was at the beginning of the season.jackson said:
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IrontonBuck
Walk On
Jib, I think the point Jackson was trying to make was that there is more to turning a bunch of kids into a winning team than just handing them a playbook. One--ONE--aspect of it is making sure they are getting their grades, especially when they are away from home for the first time. It's a big transition for any kid. Further, focusing on the importance of school also teaches the young men to be humble and team oriented, and to not be too cocky. How? Because they aren't football stars unless they take their entire commitment seriously. They have to study, work hard for the team, follow the rules, and make some contribution to the community, then they will earn the right to be stars on the field.
This is not just nicey-nice stuff to make people feel good. This is real, and the goal is to produce hard-working team players who don't crumble when the chips are down. Like the 2002 team, for example. And we will see more of those type teams. I predict 2005 will be another example, based on the 2004 Michigan game and bowl game.
This is not just nicey-nice stuff to make people feel good. This is real, and the goal is to produce hard-working team players who don't crumble when the chips are down. Like the 2002 team, for example. And we will see more of those type teams. I predict 2005 will be another example, based on the 2004 Michigan game and bowl game.
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I totally agree that Jim Tressel wants to develop the complete person, not just the football player. That's a great thing. But I can't agree to begin with anybody who thinks he's putting character-building above winning the game when he calls plays. And another thing: Jim Tressel should be trying to win every game. Losing does not make you better, and there are other ways to motivate a team. Jackson insinuated that Jim Tressel pulled punches in the Northwestern game to teach people on the team a lesson. With all due respect, I think that's BS. Nobody throws away a top-5 ranking on something like that, and even if it were plausible, it's as wildly speculative as the buzz about Rico McCoy's t-shirt.
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I think Tress would surely use a loss to Northwestern as a teaching tool, but to suggest he tanked it- so the Frosh and Sophs know what it takes by the time they're seniors - is going a bit far. You take the field to win every game. Tress is no different. But, when a loss happens, I expect that Tress also uses that to advantage.
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stxbuck
Woody wore Sambas
To the douchebag who ANONYMOUSLY dinged me- ok,the scUM games in 2001/2002 were won w/ Tresselball. The other bowl games-O-State, K-state, scUM this year-we went away from the Tresselball formula.
To everyrone else-great thread-I can see the long term plan idea of things.
To everyrone else-great thread-I can see the long term plan idea of things.
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Misanthrope
Banned
Tressel's teams ALWAYS get better as the year goes along. Even his title teams in Y'town lost games, but they usually peaked at the end. We're seeing the same thing here, in his record versus scUM and bowl games.
No one should be surprised we started slowly this year, with 14 drafted in April. Look for a stronger beginning next season, with more returning starters.
No one should be surprised we started slowly this year, with 14 drafted in April. Look for a stronger beginning next season, with more returning starters.
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jackson
Junior
JLB- It's a little slow so I'll retort. I think we are discussing why tressel wins the big games but lost four this year and in 2001 as he has won just about everything else. BTW My bro in law is from Louisa, ky so we do buckeye football and ky basketball together, I sent him your sig. pics last week, thanks for those.
First- Tressel is a teacher first, part of it is football, according to him.
Second he is recruiting smarter players but not already grow up and taught players, they are still kids growing to men.
third- no where did I say, or imply, he was dumming down the offense because of academics. I said he was, like everyone in america already agrees, running a predictable offense for a reason.
fourth- I think you may have missed the general point of my post. I didn't try to say he don't run the option because #29 didn't go to class. I said in general the TEAM had to learn much more than the spread offense this year. They had to learn humility, that academics are a priority to football(thats a ballon buster to most buckeyes), and to learn to block, kick, tackle, the basics and be consistently good at the basics before learning the playbook. rex kern said leading up to the Rose bowl they won for the NC that Woody had them so focused on the footwork and details that they were really kind of oblivious to the pressure of the big game until it was over. He did not say we were focused on what trick plays we were going to trick them into defeat with. Only after all the peices are reliably skilled, and worthy of being in a leadership position on the field, can Kasparov play the game. Part of playing the game is establishing tendencies, sandbagging, and fancy plays.
Essentially play calling is not a priority early in the season, mastering fundamentals are. And yes the Saint Jim Tressel tripled our grad rates, won a NC and OWNS loyd Carr that means to me he is sitting on the right hand of the throne. I will pray to him before I go to sleep.
First- Tressel is a teacher first, part of it is football, according to him.
Second he is recruiting smarter players but not already grow up and taught players, they are still kids growing to men.
third- no where did I say, or imply, he was dumming down the offense because of academics. I said he was, like everyone in america already agrees, running a predictable offense for a reason.
fourth- I think you may have missed the general point of my post. I didn't try to say he don't run the option because #29 didn't go to class. I said in general the TEAM had to learn much more than the spread offense this year. They had to learn humility, that academics are a priority to football(thats a ballon buster to most buckeyes), and to learn to block, kick, tackle, the basics and be consistently good at the basics before learning the playbook. rex kern said leading up to the Rose bowl they won for the NC that Woody had them so focused on the footwork and details that they were really kind of oblivious to the pressure of the big game until it was over. He did not say we were focused on what trick plays we were going to trick them into defeat with. Only after all the peices are reliably skilled, and worthy of being in a leadership position on the field, can Kasparov play the game. Part of playing the game is establishing tendencies, sandbagging, and fancy plays.
Essentially play calling is not a priority early in the season, mastering fundamentals are. And yes the Saint Jim Tressel tripled our grad rates, won a NC and OWNS loyd Carr that means to me he is sitting on the right hand of the throne. I will pray to him before I go to sleep.
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jackson said:
To say Tressel's goal isn't to win every game is idiotic. You all but flat out say he let Ohio State lose, despite your statement "I'm not saying Tressel threw that game". I don't give a shit about how much vCach you have...if you're so brilliant, move to Vegas. If he were letting to players "have their way so they could get humbled", why didn't he yank Zwick and put in Smith near the end to have Smith fail? Because in reality Zwick was his QB at the time and Zwick indeed brought the Bucks back from 10 down in the fourth to tie the game and send it into OT. By the way, Zwick even started the following two games, so that blows the shit out of your theory. Zwick lost his starting slot after the Iowa game not because of his thumb or because Smith and a few others were whining for Smith to play...he lost it because he wasn't being the leader Tressel wants, and wasn't performing up to starting QB standards.
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jackson
Junior
Jim Tressel should be trying to win every game. Losing does not make you better, and there are other ways to motivate a team. Jackson insinuated that Jim Tressel pulled punches in the Northwestern game to teach people on the team a lesson. With all due respect, I think that's BS. Nobody throws away a top-5 ranking on something like that, and even if it were plausible, it's as wildly speculative as the buzz about Rico McCoy's t-shirt.
Respectfully:
Try to win every game at the cost of a future national *** le? Having one punch to throw and wasting it on northwestern instead of Michign? Who has a goal of winning a preseason top 5 ranking at tOSU? The wildly speculative is why we have vcash and I clearly with over $10,000 am speculating quite well. Yes...Tressel pulled punches in every game this year but the last two.
To say Tressel's goal isn't to win every game is idiotic. You all but flat out say he let Ohio State lose, despite your statement "I'm not saying Tressel threw that game". I don't give a **** about how much vCach you have...if you're so brilliant, move to Vegas. If he were letting to players "have their way so they could get humbled", why didn't he yank Zwick and put in Smith near the end to have Smith fail? Because in reality Zwick was his QB at the time and Zwick indeed brought the Bucks back from 10 down in the fourth to tie the game and send it into OT. By the way, Zwick even started the following two games, so that blows the **** out of your theory. Zwick lost his starting slot after the Iowa game not because of his thumb or because Smith and a few others were whining for Smith to play...he lost it because he wasn't being the leader Tressel wants, and wasn't performing up to starting QB standards.
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Mili let me explain better- I do not intend to say tressel threw the game.
Tressel basically said at the beginning of the year his kids just went 25-2 hey are spoiled(my interpretation of tressel speak). When I say let them have their way I mean not punish them for not preparing hard enough. Pulling punches(not my words) is NOT putting Smith in the game who is clearly better. I though Zwick had a shoulder injury? When has tressel ever declared a goal of winning every game? His goal is Graduate every player with a NC ring. according to him. If he has to punt he wasn't because he didn't try to get the first down. It's because the smart thing to do was punt. That all.
Respectfully:
Try to win every game at the cost of a future national *** le? Having one punch to throw and wasting it on northwestern instead of Michign? Who has a goal of winning a preseason top 5 ranking at tOSU? The wildly speculative is why we have vcash and I clearly with over $10,000 am speculating quite well. Yes...Tressel pulled punches in every game this year but the last two.
To say Tressel's goal isn't to win every game is idiotic. You all but flat out say he let Ohio State lose, despite your statement "I'm not saying Tressel threw that game". I don't give a **** about how much vCach you have...if you're so brilliant, move to Vegas. If he were letting to players "have their way so they could get humbled", why didn't he yank Zwick and put in Smith near the end to have Smith fail? Because in reality Zwick was his QB at the time and Zwick indeed brought the Bucks back from 10 down in the fourth to tie the game and send it into OT. By the way, Zwick even started the following two games, so that blows the **** out of your theory. Zwick lost his starting slot after the Iowa game not because of his thumb or because Smith and a few others were whining for Smith to play...he lost it because he wasn't being the leader Tressel wants, and wasn't performing up to starting QB standards.
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Mili let me explain better- I do not intend to say tressel threw the game.
Tressel basically said at the beginning of the year his kids just went 25-2 hey are spoiled(my interpretation of tressel speak). When I say let them have their way I mean not punish them for not preparing hard enough. Pulling punches(not my words) is NOT putting Smith in the game who is clearly better. I though Zwick had a shoulder injury? When has tressel ever declared a goal of winning every game? His goal is Graduate every player with a NC ring. according to him. If he has to punt he wasn't because he didn't try to get the first down. It's because the smart thing to do was punt. That all.
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it must suck being you jackson. all your conspiracy theories and what not. its truly sad if you think the goal isnt to win every game.
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I think I get what you're driving at Jackson, but it damn well better be Tressel's goal to win every game. I don't hold him to it, as winning every game from here on out is impossible. But he damn well better take the field expecting to win.jackson said:
Your punt analogy misses the point, methinks. Using your metaphor, we'd have to believe you are thereby saying, "It's not that he didn't try to win the game (against Iowa, say) it's that the smart thing to do was to let his offense flounder [to teach them a lesson in humility]" I'm sorry,bro, that just doesn't add up. I have to think Tress was doing everything he could to try and get our guys to win that game against Iowa, and I doubt it very highly at some point he said, "ahh, the hell with it, lets just work on some fundementals" (Although, considering the blow out, he may have said that in mop up time - I guess)
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jackson
Junior
it must suck being you jackson? all your conspiracy theories and what not. its truly sad if you think the goal isnt to win every game.
Ouch! pleaase reread everything I have posted. i must not be explaining well enough.
Let me tell you a story:
Fifteen years ago I was trying to start a business. It required team work in order for us to all make money(enough money). I said here is what we need to do guys to be more successful. Well as we got a little bigger and guys started to get a little cocky(deservedly so) the team stopped doing some of the important things. It cost us dearly, set us back as a small business years, but those boys felt they were just as smart as me(without doing the research I did) and what could I do? scream and yell...quit...fire everybody...nothing. I just won the battles I could, and let them learn the hard way(at my expense also). Eventually some failures made them more mature, humble and willing to see what I was saying was true. Now I would have prefered to have never lost a job but I wasn't playing ping pong. I was working on a team. My goals were long term and I could not distress over losing one big job at the cost of bigger goal. If I could have won them all I would have but as a team we were not yet that mature.
What I saw from the bucks this year was simply strangely familiar. Clearly to everyone here there are things tressel could have done to win at all cost a couple of those games but getting a kid hurt or playing someone not going to class is not teaching them how to be champions. Bill Parcels said in an interview this year about how important it is to not play a guy before he is ready was he throwing games?
Ouch! pleaase reread everything I have posted. i must not be explaining well enough.
Let me tell you a story:
Fifteen years ago I was trying to start a business. It required team work in order for us to all make money(enough money). I said here is what we need to do guys to be more successful. Well as we got a little bigger and guys started to get a little cocky(deservedly so) the team stopped doing some of the important things. It cost us dearly, set us back as a small business years, but those boys felt they were just as smart as me(without doing the research I did) and what could I do? scream and yell...quit...fire everybody...nothing. I just won the battles I could, and let them learn the hard way(at my expense also). Eventually some failures made them more mature, humble and willing to see what I was saying was true. Now I would have prefered to have never lost a job but I wasn't playing ping pong. I was working on a team. My goals were long term and I could not distress over losing one big job at the cost of bigger goal. If I could have won them all I would have but as a team we were not yet that mature.
What I saw from the bucks this year was simply strangely familiar. Clearly to everyone here there are things tressel could have done to win at all cost a couple of those games but getting a kid hurt or playing someone not going to class is not teaching them how to be champions. Bill Parcels said in an interview this year about how important it is to not play a guy before he is ready was he throwing games?
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Well, that's a great deal closer to what I thought you were getting at. I don't think there is any question Tressel has long term objectives in mind. I think the objections to your insight have been to take that general observation and make it sound as though each thing that happens through the course of a season is calculated on Tressel's part. I think Tressel always uses what happens to implement his long term objectives, but I don't think he forgoes the instant entirely, which I think some people thought you were saying.
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