• Follow us on Twitter @buckeyeplanet and @bp_recruiting, like us on Facebook! Enjoy a post or article, recommend it to others! BP is only as strong as its community, and we only promote by word of mouth, so share away!
  • Consider registering! Fewer and higher quality ads, no emails you don't want, access to all the forums, download game torrents, private messages, polls, Sportsbook, etc. Even if you just want to lurk, there are a lot of good reasons to register!

Oversigning (capacity 25, everyone welcome! maybe)

SmoovP;1938157; said:
Here is an interesting breakdown on the 'oversigning advantage'.

http://www.mrsec.com/2011/06/location-tradition-have-a-lot-more-to-do-with-winning-than-oversigning/

It's long, and it has lots of numbers in it, so it might be over y'alls Yankee heads. :biggrin:
Mister Esseesee's entire premise can be boiled down to this statement:

If the theory is, ?The SEC is better than the Big Ten because they sign more players each year,? then the same must hold true when applied at a smaller level.
This statement is entirely unsupported by the blogger. His entire premise hangs on this slender thread, which is bullshit.

The reason Ohio State is better than Minnesota isn't because we sign more recruits (obviously); it's because our recruits are better, because more high-level athletes want to go to Ohio State than to Minnesota. Same thing applies in the SEC; more top-level athletes want to go to Florida than to Mississippi. Nonetheless, if you're picking your team from among a population of 250 recruited athletes as opposed to a population of 180 recruited athletes, it's self-evident you've provided yourself an advantage.

I would never claim that the on-field superiority of the SEC is solely a product of oversigning, but it's absurd to claim that the practice doesn't constitute a competitive advantage.
 
Upvote 0
SmoovP;1938157; said:
Here is an interesting breakdown on the 'oversigning advantage'.

http://www.mrsec.com/2011/06/location-tradition-have-a-lot-more-to-do-with-winning-than-oversigning/

It's long, and it has lots of numbers in it, so it might be over y'alls Yankee heads. :biggrin:

So over the last 9 years, tOSU had the fewest signees of the 11 winningest programs in the Big Ten and SEC combined, but won 7 more games than any other team in those conferences?

Amazing how efficient a program can be when recruits know they can get a free tattoo!
 
Upvote 0
MaxBuck;1938159; said:
Mister Esseesee's entire premise can be boiled down to this statement:

This statement is entirely unsupported by the blogger. His entire premise hangs on this slender thread, which is bull[Mark May].

The reason Ohio State is better than Minnesota isn't because we sign more recruits (obviously); it's because our recruits are better, because more high-level athletes want to go to Ohio State than to Minnesota. Same thing applies in the SEC; more top-level athletes want to go to Florida than to Mississippi. Nonetheless, if you're picking your team from among a population of 250 recruited athletes as opposed to a population of 180 recruited athletes, it's self-evident you've provided yourself an advantage.

I would never claim that the on-field superiority of the SEC is solely a product of oversigning, but it's absurd to claim that the practice doesn't constitute a competitive advantage.

I don't think we read the same article.
 
Upvote 0
BB73;1938160; said:
So over the last 9 years, tOSU had the fewest signees of the 11 winningest programs in the Big Ten and SEC combined, but won 7 more games than any other team in those conferences?

Amazing how efficient a program can be when recruits know they can get a free tattoo!

Good point!! Wonder how efficient they could be if there was an ability to land loaner cars or if a kid could somehow turn a profit just by signing a few autographs. :biggrin:
 
Upvote 0
If tOSU would oversign every year it wouldn't fucking matter because they're the worst cheaters in the history of cheating...JFC I'd rather be dealing with this shit instead of tatoos and cars and payments for autographs.:(








Sorry but oversigining seems like such a stupid issue after all the shit from the last 7 months...
 
Upvote 0
This article quotes Jackson as saying that JT asked him to transfer because tOSU needed to free up scholarships.

CBS

HARTFORD, Conn. -- James Jackson assumed that when he was offered a full football scholarship to Ohio State it meant that as long as he stayed out of trouble and kept up with his school work, the university would pay for his education for four years.
He later discovered, that's not always how it works.


Jackson, a wide receiver, says he was asked to transfer after last season, two years into his college career.


"They had an oversigning issue," Jackson said. "They had to free up a few scholarships, and coach [Jim] Tressel told me I probably wouldn't play and maybe Ohio State wasn't the place for me."


Jackson said he didn't understand when he was being recruited that all scholarships are only good for a year, subject to renewal at the discretion of the school. He was never told that he might be asked to transfer if he wasn't performing up to expectations and the school wanted his scholarship for someone else.


In response to cases similar to Jackson's, California and Connecticut have passed legislation that will require colleges in those states to disclose the fine print of athletic scholarships to student athletes.


Connecticut's law, which passed the state House by a vote of 140-3 and was unanimously approved by the Senate, will take effect on July 1. California's, signed into law in 2010, will be fully implemented in 2012. Other states are considering similar legislation.


Ohio State athletic director Gene Smith denies the school forced Jackson to transfer.


"Our policy is as James Jackson stated: As long as a student-athlete maintains his/her academic standing, behaves appropriately, and handles his/her responsibilities, he or she will retain their scholarship. We have no proof of any conversation between he and former head coach Jim Tressel," he said in a statement to the Associated Press.
...
Quinnipiac University basketball coach Tom Moore said he doesn't believe the law will lead to many changes in the recruiting process. His school, and all others that he knows of, already make the details of scholarships available to recruits and their families, he said. And most families, he said, are savvy enough to ask the right questions anyhow.


He said while there is a perception that schools sometimes run off athletes to give a scholarship to a better player, more often the decision to transfer is initiated by the player, not the coach.


"With each passing generation of kids, you are getting kids who are less driven to work through things," Moore said. "You get a lot of kids who come in expecting success, without realizing the work you have to put in to achieve success. That's sometimes where the conflict comes in."


But Jackson said if he had known then what he knows now, he would not have gone to Ohio State, and believes disclosure laws can help others avoid similar mistakes.


"My main goal coming out of high school was to get a degree from a Division I program," said Jackson, who now attends Wayne State, a Division II school in Michigan. "If I had known they wouldn't keep me in school for four to five years, no matter what, I would have gone somewhere else.



"I don't necessarily feel used, and maybe coach Tressel was right, maybe Ohio State wasn't right for me," he said. "But this would have helped me out by maybe knowing that before."


Cont'd ...
 
Upvote 0
Jackson has been on the verge of transferring for awhile because he knows he will not play here.

Piling on OSU is pretty popular right now, but there is a difference between letting a player know where he stands and running him off. OSU was woefully thin at WR last year and this year yet he is not anywhere to be found. They just had to move a co-starter at RB to WR because of those depth woes.

I am pretty confident I can name a minimum of 4-5 guys per year who were not contributing - outside of special teams, if that - with little to no chance of changing that who not only finished their careers but did so as a 5th year senior.

OL Smith just finished all five years without contributing.

OL Blankenship was a similar situation for multiple years, so he moved to DT. He is about to finish year five behind walkons at both positions.

S Oliver is entering his final year as a special teamer.

S Domicone is entering year four as a special teamer and a consistently injured one.

All of those guys are returning this year for their fifth year, with the exception of Smith, who graduated after five years

CB Evege is entering year five, and has only played on special teams sporadically on top of frequent injuries. He also just suffered a major one last fall.

Nic DiLillo was very out of shape for multiple years and behind walk-on tight ends on the depth chart. They let him know where things stood last spring but he wasn't cut. He chose to stay and remain on scholarship last year despite not maintaining his off the field training.
 
Upvote 0
jwinslow;1945211; said:
emu-788130.jpg
FIFY


So maybe the reason for the other marginals staying and not being asked to leave is that only one guy was needed to be launched - that year - to solve a numbers problem. You are arguing facts that are just fine to negate allegations of an endemic pattern of Tress launching marginal guys al-la-Little Nicky.....but to set up the retention of those other marginal guys as proof that one similar guy was not launched you first have to show that a numbers problem existed for every year the other ham and eggers were on roster, but yet were kept. If there was no serious numbers problem those years the issue of launching marginals does not come up. ( In like manner, if no star players sell improper stuff, that problem does not come up. )

In essence, you are making the argument that Tress could not have lied to the NCAA in 2010 - and offer as evidence the absence of any proof he lied to the NCAA from 2001 to 2009. While relevant, to be sure, that is obviously probative rather than conclusive.
 
Upvote 0
And he could obviously be an embittered former player taking his shot now that Tress is down and cannot defend himself. Happened to Urban several times as well.

This is what strikes me:
"I don't necessarily feel used, and maybe coach Tressel was right, maybe Ohio State wasn't right for me," he said. "But this would have helped me out by maybe knowing that before."
That hardly seems to be the language of a person with a vendetta. Very mild accusatory language for a person with an axe to grind.
 
Upvote 0
This article seems off, as though Jackson was interviewed from an oversigning angle as opposed to the story of his transfer angle. What I get confused is James states
My main goal coming out of high school was to get a degree from a Division I program
but he transfers to a Div II school? Why is that? I think it would be an immediate playing time issue. If the degree is his goal, I'm sure he could have found his way into a D1 school again, but he'd have to sit out a year.

The only conversation he is quoting with Tressel was that Coach T told him that he "probably wasn't going to play and that maybe Ohio State wasn't the place for me." That conversation can be interpreted differently of course with no context. I have never read, nor seen, any year where the staff oversigned the 85-man roster limits. Thus I can see no real reason from the university's perspective for the staff to put pressure on Jackson to transfer to open up a roster spot. The dots don't connect for me.

Sounds to me that Coach T was being honest about James' roster chances and wanted to inform Jackson that he may be riding the bench for 3 more seasons and if playing was important then a transfer was going to be the way to go. Miscommunication happens, I hope Jackson's does well at GVSU. I hope that this wasn't malicious, but I do think that we have no reason to believe it was.
 
Upvote 0
Gatorubet;1945242; said:
And he could obviously be an embittered former player taking his shot now that Tress is down and cannot defend himself. Happened to Urban several times as well.

This is what strikes me: That hardly seems to be the language of a person with a vendetta. Very mild accusatory language for a person with an axe to grind.
Gator a post was made in Jackson's thread detailing how things go down a lot of times.

My theory is that he wasn't asked to transfer, but rather that they sat him down, and talked to him about where he was on the depth chart and gave him several options, and that he interpreted it as being asked to leave.
 
Upvote 0
There is also the matter of a national publication making Tressel the face of his revelation with no other examples. Did he seek out James and ask leading questions?

I don't have a problem with a coach telling a kid where he stands. I have a problem with manipulating or pressuring him into leaving if he doesn't want to.

Another curious part of the quote is keeping a scholarship no matter what.
 
Upvote 0
Sportsbuck28;1945249; said:
Gator a post was made in Jackson's thread detailing how things go down a lot of times.

My theory is that he wasn't asked to transfer, but rather that they sat him down, and talked to him about where he was on the depth chart and gave him several options, and that he interpreted it as being asked to leave.
That makes sense. Also, in that thread Mali says that there was no numbers problem that year. So that to me is the air tight defense - the other players and other years defense is persuasive but not conclusive.

If there was no numbers issue that year, then it is just bullshit and piling on Tress and tOSU while they are having problems. Still, the kid's lack of venom stands out...

So a better explanation, if the numbers issue is B.S, is that the press tracked down kids who transferred looking for some negative quote, and the kid was used for that purpose.
 
Upvote 0
Back
Top