A Split National Championship in 2008?

[tibor75]

The BCS pollsters are a poor man's version of the AP, and the computers haven't watched a game in their life. All they see are empty numbers with zero context. Smart argument here.and a complete lack of reasoning or context.balderdash. Oregon State crippled them and they never recovered. It's not even comparable to the lessened value of beating OSU.

Fascinating argument against the computers. You seem to act as if the humans actually watch the games. Not to mention having voters who sometimes don't even vote (great job Tressel) or those who vote for their previous employer (nice Spurrior) or who have their student assistant turn in the ballot. Your argument might make sense if the voters consisted of a group of people who watched 30 games in their entirity every week.

 

[Mike80]

Fascinating argument against the computers. You seem to act as if the humans actually watch the games. Not to mention having voters who sometimes don't even vote (great job Tressel) or those who vote for their previous employer (nice Spurrior) or who have their student assistant turn in the ballot. Your argument might make sense if the voters consisted of a group of people who watched 30 games in their entirity every week.

who the hell is "Spurrior"?

 

[tibor75]

I wasn't describing the AP title - I was describing your stupidity.

BTW, syntax much?


Well, you "don't understand a lick of college football in general". Does this mean that you still care about the AP title?

"Don't understand a lick" - is that an SEC term, or something?


Well, the NCAA considers "1970 to be a [sic] NC year for OSU", but I guess that their opinion doesn't count....


Any "Knowledgable fan" would know that the UPI no longer hands out titles.

You have yet to describe one intelligent argument for why the AP title means anything and constitutes a "split." then again, when somebody spends half their time harping on spelling on a message board, they don't have anything credible to say about the topic on hand. Nice try though.

 

[tibor75]

who the hell is "Spurrior"?

It's late...I'm not going to look up how to spell Superior's name.

 

[Mike80]

At least the BCS includes computer polls which add the semblence of objectivity.

The thing that hurt USC the most? the fact that Ohio State and the Big Ten are considered frauds. Nobody even cares about their huge win over OSU. Imagine if they beat OSU by 35-3 BEFORE the Florda/LSU debacles.

These two statements prove that what you don't understand could fill the Ancient Library of Alexandria PLUS the Smithsonian.....

 

[tibor75]

These two statements prove that what you don't understand could fill the Ancient Library of Alexandria PLUS the Smithsonian.....

You are right. Herbestreit and his ilk obviously are better at assessing the best team than the computers. Did the oblivious moron even mention USC's loss to Oregon State during the blow-job at the Rose Bowl?

 

[WaitingforKickoff]

Not really. The AP poll is still a sham because it's a poll of people who probably have never seen Utah play until this week.

At least the BCS includes computer polls which add the semblence of objectivity.

The thing that hurt USC the most? the fact that Ohio State and the Big Ten are considered frauds. Nobody even cares about their huge win over OSU. Imagine if they beat OSU by 35-3 BEFORE the Florda/LSU debacles.

This doesn't touch on my post at all. My argument is that all titles are subject to the court of public opinion, and that perception and only perception gives any meaning to these titles. What would be a BCS title mean if it is rejected by the public and media at large? Can you take your BCS title home and eat it? or cash it at a bank? I don't think so. Any meaning from these titles rests solely on their perceived legitimacy, and the AP is just as legitimate as the BCS if there is adequate support for its chosen winner, which by default would be the case.

 

[troy#1]

Argument? Who said USC needs to argue. They're SC, for [censored]'s sake. That alone is good for 25 1st place ballots.

If that were REALLY TRUE, this thread wouldnt exist.

 

[troy#1]

The media constantly mentions USC's 2004 AP title, so evidently it's still important.

Its only important to the AP. For what its worth, 13-0 gets my vote.

 

[JXC]

I think, no matter what happens, there will not be a split national championship. The ONLY reason there was one in 2003 was because USC was ALREADY #1 in the polls before the BCS national championship. But nobody is going to pass whoever wins the #1 vs. #2 game, no matter what the score or who wins or loses. SURE, Utah and maybe even USC will get some first place votes (Texas won't because I don't think anybody will give a first place vote to a 2-loss team). But neither will be pushed ahead of the OU/Florida winner. My number 1 team is Utah, no matter what happens on Jan 8. And some will agree with me, but most will rank the OU/FLA winner #1, because they probably already have them ahead of Utah in their poll to begin with, and a win against the other looks more impressive than a win against Alabama. And it is the last game played, and people always remember the last game played the most.

The ONLY way it could happen, is if the winner looks terrible AND wins on a play in which the refs messed it up or something, and really the other team should have won.

 

[MililaniBuckeye]

Its only important to the AP.

And to the fans of the team voted AP #1, and likely those in their conference...and even those who don't care for the BCS format.

 

[jwinslow]

Fascinating argument against the computers. You seem to act as if the humans actually watch the games.

Non-fascinating attempt to change the subject away from computers who have no idea how teams look.

You have yet to describe one intelligent argument for why the AP title means anything and constitutes a "split." then again, when somebody spends half their time harping on spelling on a message board, they don't have anything credible to say about the topic on hand. Nice try though.

ten thousand posts says what?

 

[Onebuckfan]

There is no split NC the OU and Fla winner gets the trophy. The split NC talk is for the message boards and talk radio. If the NC trophy is to be given out another way it would be gven to Pete Carroll every year because according to some any loss they have can be explained away.

 

[Buckeyeskickbuttocks]

Too many folks (myself included) attempt to use the transitive property when ranking teams, when we all know it doesn't work. Before the Rose Bowl, if you had used "Penn State destroyed Oregon State, and Oregon State beat USC, so Penn State will handle USC easily" as your reasoning for picking a Penn State upset, folks would've laughed you off the board. Yet, people will continue to use the transitive property when racking and stacking teams. Now, the "USC dominated Ohio State, and Penn State was lucky to edge Ohio State, so USC should win easily against Penn State" logic would've worked, but transitive property analysis is simply unsound.

We need a playoff and doesn't be surprised to see it in a full form within the next decade (by 2020).

I disagree with the conclusion that we need a playoff, though I do agree that it is inevitable. But, what I really wanted to say was this -

Part of the reason I came up with my own ranking system at the end of this season (See final ranks here) was to address a need for a system of how to rank teams, rather than several disjointed opinions from various people and machines. Now, that said, my rankings aren't intended to be the final say, and people with better knowledge on stats and etc. could certainly come up with a better system....

None the less... I think the "system" should judge how a team does against whoever it plays. Stats matter (how much, I can't say). If USC beats the crap out of Ball State - as they should - they shouldn't just get a penalty for playing ball state. Essentially, it should be a wash in some sense - if they do what they should do to Ball State, for example. Not just margin of victory. That's what I like about the system I put together. It factors in so many categories, that I think it gives a reasonable look at who did what against whom.

A playoff won't establish who's the "best" in the land (which is what a poll is supposed to be finding) All it will do is say team X was the "hottest" of this pool of other "worthy" opponents. I guess. I mean, it's match ups too.. Suppose Ohio State gets to play and beats Virginia Tech... USC gets to play, and loses to Texas. How does that settle anything? Maybe USC would have beat Va Tech.

I don't know... just sayin

 

[Best Buckeye]

I agree that a playoff is not the whole answer not only for the reasons BKB stated but additionally because it still would leave questions in some fans minds about who gets in and who is left out.
I don't think that a playoff will happen if ever because of the control issue. Those who have it won't /don't want to give that up. It's a money thing.