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Buckeye Offensive Coordinator Discussion (merged)

Woody's 1969 team averaged 42.6 per game, while only allowing 10.3.

And I'm just pointing out a fact without ranting, so I would hope that no one feels the need to prescibe some medication for me. :)
 
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I think, especially with a young team, it's a really good idea to keep the playbook simple early on in the season. It was hard to know exactly what the player could and couldn't do when the season started. Now we know exactly what players can do. TGII can score every time he touches the ball. TS can scramble for a first down when nobody is open, and can fire bullets to open recievers. JZ, WHEN GIVEN TIME TO STAY IN THE POCKET, can be a VERY accurate and smart passer, using many different recievers to move the ball. The defensive schemes got more complex as the season went on, and everybody on defense seemed to handle their assignments as well as it is drawn up. Everyone on offense started to execute, and the O-line improvement was the biggest reason for the success.

When this offense was struggling, I posted that it wasn't the playcalling that was keeping this team from scoring, but it was the execution, and that didn't mean it wasn't JT's fault. It's JTs job to get these guys to execute. He needs to put the right guys on the field, and recruit the right guys that are going to be able to learn the system and perform to the best of their abilities and play within themselves. That wasn't happening in the first half of the season. It sure did in the second half. This is the 4th year in a row where tOSU has been playing it's best football at the end of the season. That's all due to the coaching. GO BUCKS!
 
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ysubuck said:
I am guilty as charged.

I was pounding my head against the wall earlier in the season and I was calling for Bollman to resign. :2004:

I will not question the play calling or the offensive scheme again. It seems that things have come together nicely.

It's too bad they couldn't have come together for the NW or Iowa game, but hey, at least they came together.
What the hell's going on here ysu? Did I watch a different game than some of these people. I mean that win wasn't enough for some fans I guess. What the hell? Fl State has some great play calling maybe they should support that team or some other one. Err ....wrong choice of words(support) they don't support, they just sit around and rank on big wins in Bowl games. Can you believe it?
 
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It looked to me as if Tressel finally cut loose. The play calling in the Michigan game and last night's bowl game seemed to me to be far different than what he was calling early in the season... but maybe it was a matter of execution... that the same plays that broke down in the beginning of the year worked at the end as the team jelled.

What I did enjoy was that unlike last year's bowl game, when he jumped out to a 21 point lead and then sat on it, this year he went right back after the Cowboy's defense until the final part of the fourth quarter.

Execution or play calling, I'm not sure. But speed kills and the Buckeye's looked to me to be as fast as any team I've seen, on both sides of the ball. And Pitcock looks like he's going to be an anchor to a real ass kicking defense next year.

Is it August yet? I can't wait.
 
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All I can say about that Bowl Game is...Absolutely Beautiful!!


Its easy to open the playbook when everything is working, even the abysmal running game. Hell I was glad to see Lydell running strong and guys like Parker and Demaria getting some carries at the end.
 
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well, your comments may have been true after Iowa, but since then, especially Mich and OK St., the play calling has been brilliant
ex. 1st play of Alamo Bowl...using Ginn to set up Gonzalez

The running plays often seemed rediculous though. Run Speed guys on 1st, 2nd downs, and power guys on 4th and 1, not the other way around.

Overall, play calling's been better than normal under Tressel

I still think he's a great coach. He's 3-1 vs. Michigan and 3-1 in bowls! Don't forget that.

____________________

http://www.sportslibrary.tripod.com
 
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EXCELLLENT OL play allows you to be alot more creative in your offensive play calling. THAT is why we've seen what we have during the past two games. Hats off to the "big heavies" up front. It took some time, but this group has finally put it together, a helluva lot of momentum going into next season.
 
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WoodyWorshiper said:
EXCELLLENT OL play allows you to be alot more creative in your offensive play calling. THAT is why we've seen what we have during the past two games. Hats off to the "big heavies" up front. It took some time, but this group has finally put it together, a helluva lot of momentum going into next season.
Absolutely right Woodyw. and we have seen a tremendous amount of improvement up front and from the sidelines. It may not be as pretty as a walt Harris or Steve Spurier Offence but Isn't it improving and wins that count? Any way If I remember correctly no one predicted us to win a National title with these young bucks this year. So with our "average" O I think it was a fine year for this team ,especially with the ESPN haters on their ass.
 
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I thought that this article was very interesting. From over on the O ZONE. Are some of our coaches in over their heads? It seems that they aren't sure what to do with the talent that they have.

By the Numbers
By Jeff Amey

The San Diego State Aztecs came into Ohio Stadium and dominated the game....for the first 11 seconds. The Aztecs scored on their first play from scrimmage on an 80 yard catch and run. After that, the never even sniffed the goal line and finished only one more play on the Ohio State side of the 50 yard line. The game was never really in doubt, yet it is hard not to come away from this game feeling a little bit of disappointment. As well as the defense played and for all of the good field position Ohio State was able to get, they were only able to put 27 points on the board. We're going to explore why later on, but for now let's just look at the stats.
Run/Pass Breakdown
82 Total Plays--373 yards--4.5 ypp
36 pass (44%)--23/36 for 196 yards 1 INT
46 runs (56%) for 177 yards 3 TD--3.8 ypc
14 Total Drives
ave. of 5.9 plays--26.6 yards
ave. start--OSU 41
1st Down--34 plays (41%) for 126 yards
10 pass (29%)--7/10 for 55 yards 1 INT
24 runs (71%) for 71 yards 1 TD--3.0 ypc
ave. gain of 3.7 yards
2nd Down--29 plays (35%) for 155 yards
14 pass (48%)--8/14 for 89 yards
15 runs (52%) for 66 yards 1 TD--4.4 ypc
ave. of 7.2 yards to go
ave. gain of 5.3 yards
3rd Down--19 plays (23%) for 92 yards
12 pass (63%)--8/12 for 52 yards
7 runs (37%) for 40 yards 1 TD--5.7 ypc
ave. of 6.2 yards to go
ave. gain of 4.8 yards
conversions--10/19 (53%)
Playaction Passing
2/5 for 32 yards 1 INT
First Downs--20
11 by pass
9 by run
FORMATION BREAKDOWN
2 back formations--7 plays (9%)
1 pass (14%)--0/1 for 0 yards
6 runs (86%) for -4 yards 2 TD--(-0.7) ypc
Shotgun formations--59 plays (72%)
31 pass (53%)--20/31 for 139 yards 1 INT
28 runs (47%) for 138 yards 1 TD--4.9 ypc
One back/empty formations--16 plays (19%)
4 pass (25%)--3/4 for 57 yards
12 runs (75%) for 43 yards--3.6 ypc
RUN TYPE BREAKDOWN--46 attempts
counter/trap--2 (4%) for 9 yards--4.5 ypc
draw--12 (26%) for 50 yards--4.2 ypc
sweep--1 (2%) for 1 yard--1.0 ypc
base/iso--9 (20%) for 15 yards 1 TD--1.7 ypc
end around--1 for -8 yards--(-8.0) ypc
power--0 (0%) for 0 yards
QB scramble/run--6 (13%) for 34 yards 1 TD--5.7 ypc
option (QB and HB)--11 (24%) for 70 yards 1 TD--6.4 ypc
stretch--4 (9%) for 6 yards--1.5 ypc
Other Stats of Note
* 2 offensive penalties for the game
* OSU started on SDSU side of 50 four times--24 points
* 4 for 6 in red zone scoring (3 TD, 1 FG)
* 43 of 82 plays were on SDSU side of 50 (52%)
*20 of 82 plays went for no gain or loss (24%)
* no sacks and 1 turnover (interception)
* 61 out of 82 plays had 3 or more WR's lined up (74%)
* 13 of those 61 plays ended with the ball in a WR's hands (21%)
Looking at the statistics above, it doesn't seem like there would be anything to be disappointed about. The offense put up nearly 400 yards of offense. It completed 64% of its passes. It converted better than 50% of their third down attempts. It put the ball in the end zone when the defense or special teams put the offense on a short field. So why do we and many other fans feel disappointment in the offense this week?
We spent a good deal of time from the end of the game up to this writing thinking about that, and came up with as clear a picture as we can muster. We think the majority of Ohio State fans are wondering "Is this as good as it's going to get?". We see a team loaded with talent at the skill positions. We see a couple of quarterbacks beginning their fourth year in this program. We see a defense that could possibly be the best in the country. How does a team with all of these things struggle to put 27 points on the board against a team that hasn't been able to stop anyone all year?
Ohio State could've and probably should've beaten San Diego State by at least 50 points on Saturday. The teams were seperated by at least that much on mere talent alone. It was evident from San Diego State's second snap on that they weren't going to be able to do much with the ball, yet they were able to hang around in much the same way Texas was allowed to hang around the week before until deep into the second half, when a fumble on the 1 yard line allowed Ohio State to finally put the game away.
What is the problem? Why does it seem as if the Buckeyes are getting the absolute minimum of production from the multitude of offensive weapons they are able to put on the field? This is the $50,000 question that no one seems to be able to answer, but we're going to give it a shot.
The reasons for Ohio State's offensive struggles are very complex. Any answer has to begin and end with the guy at the top of the food chain. Ultimately, it is Jim Tressel's responsibility to get the most out of his players every play, drive, game, and season. If he's unable to do that, the blame for it ultimately has to rest with him.
Last season, we pointed out that Jim Tressel has often stated that the offense has certain goals that they would like to obtain on an average weekly basis. We also pointed out that they have not once reached all of those goals in the same game since Tressel took over as head coach of the Buckeyes. That still holds true. Assuming that he didn't set those goals with no intention of ever reaching them, you also have to assume that Tressel is just as unhappy with his offense's lack of production as the fans are.
Now that we are a little more than 4 seasons into the Jim Tressel era at Ohio State, his basic philosophy has become clear. He is more likely to try to win games with defense and special teams than simply outscoring opponents with his offense. There's nothing wrong with that philosophy, especially if a team is lacking in offensive talent. It won a national championship for Ohio State in 2002 (as well as several other times during the Woody Hayes era). The trouble is, it doesn't seem that Ohio State is lacking in offensive talent.
So the question breaks itself down to: If talent is not the issue, is it playcalling? Personnel choices? Scheme? Execution? Player development?
It's a little bit of all of those things in our humble opinion. Some more than others. The coaches have said in the past that Ohio State will not have a set scheme. They stress that they will change the offense to suit what personnel they have. The coaches have obviously lived up to their word on this. The offense has evolved into something new every season under Tressel, with each season seemingly putting his best weapons out on the field. Ohio State's offensive strengths lie in their wide receivers this season, and we are seeing three and four wide receivers sets about 75% of the time.
Execution has been a major problem in a couple of the seasons in the Tressel era, but doesn't seem to be as big of a problem this season. There have been occasional breakdowns on the line and in route-running, but for the most part, outside of the quarterback position, there has been good execution from the players. Quarterback is a whole other issue that will be addressed further later.
Personnel choices for the most part have been good as well in the Tressel era. There hasn't been a lot of second guessing for most positions except, again, the quarterback position. Outside of that position, I don't think there is much doubt that Ohio State had their best offensive weapons on the field.
So what does that leave as the major issues? Playcalling, player development, and the Quarterback position.
When it comes to playcalling, there is no way that the coaches call plays with the expectation that it will not succeed. While this may be true, it also doesn't seem as if they coaches put the players in the best position for them to succeed with the plays they call. The offensive playcalling doesn't seem to have a rhyme or reason on continuity to it. There are few plays that look to be set up by previous plays with the same look. There doesn't seem to be a plan in the way the games are called. It seems that the offense is continually searching to find something that works against the defense instead of the defense searching for a way to stop what Ohio State is doing.
While I like that the Buckeyes have decided to maximize on the number of talented wide receivers they have on the roster with their formation choices and a spread offense, it seems they are doing very little to maximize the effectiveness of those weapons by stretching the field horizontally and vertically and trying to get the ball to those weapons in space. In some cases, it seems they are struggling to even get the ball to those weapons at all. This ties directly into the next major issue behind the struggles of the Ohio State offense, the Quarterback position.
Aside from one game, Ohio State has not gotten spectacular play out of the quarterback position in the entire Jim Tressel era. I think it would best be described as adaquate, no more and no less. In the past, I would say that it was more due to the fact that the Buckeyes didn't have a great quarterback on the roster. I don't feel that is the case anymore. Justin Zwick and Troy Smith are both former Elite 11 quarterbacks and, although they bring different things to the table, both look like they could be significantly above average quarterbacks in their own way.
Neither one of them seem to be living up to that potential. While Justin Zwick has shown significant improvement so far this season, it doesn't seem like he has done enough to reclaim the starting position in the coach's eyes. Troy Smith on the other hand, showed a huge amount of potential in the win over Michigan last season, but it seems as if that potential remains locked up and his development as a passer has been painfully slow. He's making some of the same mistakes in the passing game he was making from the start when it comes to reading defenses and going through progressions.
That brings us to player development. Take a hard look at who is on the field when the Buckeyes are on offense. It is clear that there is a lot of potential on the field at every position. That potential never really seems to be developed into a full blown weapon. That doesn't really speak well for the offensive coaching staff.
Think of the offense this season. There have been flashes of potential from every player on the offensive side of the ball, but no one that you can really say is a star, outside of possibly Santonio Holmes. Every one of the rest of those players have one game you can point back to as "proof" that they could be a great player. Troy Smith has Michigan. Ted Ginn has Michigan State. Anthony Gonzalez has his breakout end of last season, culminating in the Michigan game. Antonio Pittman looked strong against Indiana last season (doesn't everyone?). The line as a whole looked impressive against Miami (OH) earlier this year.
There have been flashes, but none of those players have turned in consistantly good performances week after week, and we as fans are left remembering back to those great games when we think of the potential this offense presents. There is no reason why Ohio State shouldn't be putting up at least 40 points per game with the talent they have, but it's up to the coaches to develop that talent and put it to it's best use out on the field for that to happen.
As for the game against San Diego State, there were several disturbing things out of the offense this week. One thing was the lack of a consistant running game outside of Troy Smith running with the ball. It was obvious that Antonio Pittman's knee was still bothering him. He wasn't cutting as well or running with the same power and decisiveness he ran with the first two games. Equally obvious and more disturbing was something else that I noticed while watching the game on Saturday. I decided to test myself on it when I rewatched the game to break it down.
Ohio State lined up in the shotgun 48 times with Troy Smith in at quarterback. On those plays, we were able to correctly guess whether Ohio State was going to run or pass the ball 44 out of those 48 plays simply by where the halfback was lined up in relation to the quarterback. Ifwe I were able to do this from watching television, there is little doubt opposing coaches are going to notice the same thing. This is something that needs to be addressed and either changed or taken advantage of later by the coaching staff (or at least noticed).
Anyone that frequents the message board on this site knows well what my opinion of Troy Smith's abilities are. For those of you that choose not to look in on the excitement that is a public message board, here's what I think in a nutshell. He has excellent running ability, but has some real weaknesses when it comes to the passing game. I don't feel that he reads defenses very well after the snap, fails to look off opposing safeties, tends to lock onto his primary receiver for too long, and doesn't go through progressions before he decides to take off with the ball. These weaknesses are going to be more pronounced in the type of passing game Ohio State is using this season. It requires Smith to be a type of quarterback that he just isn't. Instead of running pass plays where he is going to have to read the defense and find the open man, they should be running pass plays designed with the specific purpose of getting a man open. A subtle difference, but one that would probably help Troy look better in the passing game, and make his decision to run easier and probably quicker.
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I just rewatched the game and there were some creative play calls and some very basic.

A couple for instance when there was the play-action fake to Pitt and we had Gonzo going up the sideline and Smith sailed the ball over his head, if he floats it down the sideline it is probably 6.

I also saw a couple more play-action passes where the guys either didnt get open or Smith missed them.

My favorite play tho was the fake reverse to Ginn and The pitch to Mo Wells. If Holmes makes the block Wells runs for 15 or so.


We also had a ton of missed assignments by the offensive line, miss reads by the qb, and too many dropped balls. I can think of Holmes, Hall(2), Hamby, and Ginn.

After watching the game it had nothing to do with the playcalling. Tress called a nice game, it comes down to execution on the field. The design was there as we had guys running down the field, they were just not executed properly. I think with a good week of practice that they will come around.

The only bad thing I saw was why when we are running out of the gunn is the rb behind the qb and when we are passing he is even. Is that showing the d what we are doing.
 
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The only bad thing I saw was why when we are running out of the gunn is the rb behind the qb and when we are passing he is even. Is that showing the d what we are doing.
I've never noticed it but you can bet every coach we play against has if they are doing it. That just goes back to a few weeks ago when Tressel was talking about self-scouting in the offseason to make sure they didn't do things like that. I hope they're still looking at themselves and notice it. Maybe it's a case where the RB is stepping back on his own to get that extra step and the coaching staff hasn't picked up on it.
 
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I've never noticed it but you can bet every coach we play against has if they are doing it. That just goes back to a few weeks ago when Tressel was talking about self-scouting in the offseason to make sure they didn't do things like that. I hope they're still looking at themselves and notice it. Maybe it's a case where the RB is stepping back on his own to get that extra step and the coaching staff hasn't picked up on it.

Well it is really obvious, He is at least a yard to a yard and 1/2 on running plays, and dead even on pass plays.
 
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Like which ones specifically? I don't see anything in this article that's so innovative that any OSU coach wouldn't already know it front to back. It's still early in the season, so I expect Tressel & Co. to be holding back a bit.

Well, the jist of the article states that Troy Smith (and Justin, for that matter) aren't developing like we thought they would even though both were elite 11 QB's. Does this mean that Joe Daniels isn't developing the talent that he has? Bollman's play calling and the offense in general have been under fire for the last 3+ years despite having the talent to be a pretty good offensive team (especially this year).

I wouldn't have expected the staff to be holding back during the Texas game, but that may be the case. Holding back and getting ready for conference play.
 
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