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Charlie Weis (ex-Kansas HC, ex-Fla OC, Notre Dame legend, UnDecided Schematic Advantage)

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buckeyeboy said:
Author of current article on ESPN says that Weis's new contract "strikes [the author] as racist."

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=whitlock/051101
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I'm not surprised by the reaction...I think a lot of the problem is that the wins Weiss had looked a lot better at the time than they do now. I do think giving him a 10 year contract after 7-8 games is ridiculous...after all, if they wanted him for that long and to pay him that much, why didn't they just do it at the outset, becausehe hasn't shown enough to warrant it now...unless renewed fan and national (read: media) interest is what they're going on, and we all know how fleeting that can be.
 
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crazybuckfan40 said:
I don't see how you can say that they are not halfway decent players.

Quinn will probably be a first round draft pick, Walker is a good running back and their recievers are very good.
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they aren't that great across the board. and Quinn has taken huge strides, and is probably being utilized much better.

At first glance, it seems unfair. But you have to consider a number of things:
1) Weis took a wayward team and did enough to beat USC. A lucky fumble and a non-call on the bush-push helped change the outcome. This is the same team that throttled Willingham.
2) Willingham was not desired by NFL teams after his 8-0 start. Weis was highly desired even with two losses at the halfway point.
3) Weis is an offensive guru. I would like to see what happens against a good defense, but he has proven he knows exactly how to attack weaknesses in a defense.

Ty got screwed. No two ways about it.

In some ways, I think people looked to Ty as a savior, and then were let down when they saw more mediocrity. Weis came into a system that had endured two straight coaching failures (perception is all that matters, yes I realize Ty didn't have a chance). So Weis going 6-2, and nearly knocking off the "unbeatable" trojans, makes him extremely popular in SB.
 
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Jason Whitlock omits one key point in his opinion piece.
Brady Quinn and the Irish offense sucked dick during Willingham's last two years.
81st in Total Offense in 2004, 90th in 2003. Even in the heralded year of Ty's coming 108th in total offense. This and Ty's inability to routinely recruit elite blue-chip players had the administration at ND on the war-path.

Lets look at their D in the same period.
2002 - 13th in D, 33rd in 2003, 54th in total Defense in 2004.
This year they have not shown improvement on Defense, standing at 96th overall - but Weis cannot be expected to overcome all issues overnight.

In clear contrast Willingham's stewardship was taking ND down into a black hole, a routinely poor record on offense, year after year, their Defense shakier and shakier with each passing season. If this were, say, Cooper's record noone would be batting an eyelash over his firing.

The only racist component here is in Whitlock's mind. Those last two years were simply horrendous after he got the best out of Davie's recruits. Moreover, the truth told behind the win-loss records by their statistical ranking shows a deepening divide between expectation and achievement.

ND was right to fire Willingham, right to fire him when they did, right to fire him in the manner they chose. If they were wrong in granting Weis a 10-year contract this early, time will tell. Then, having already set the precedent that their contracts are no longer iron clad, they can buy him out.
 
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Interesting too that Whitlock praises Willingham for getting what he did out of Davie's guys, and derides (at least indirectly) Weiss for getting what he has out of Ty's guys. The entire article is a complete double standard.
 
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In all reality, they really havent faced a somwhat dominant defense yet this year. USC was probably the best and they got a lot of yards put up on them by ASU, Oregon, and the teams in the Pac-10.

I think USC is ranked at like 35th in total defense and we all know their pass defense is really suspsect.

Not knocking Wise and Notre Dame, I just think it is way too early for the media and Notre Dame to put him up on a pedestal.
 
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Where the media is concerned, I've grown tired of college football coverage. Too reactionary, very little honest analysis. Maybe it's always been that way, but I don't remember it as such.

Off topic, but kinda the point - you've got a guy like Craig James asking "Where have you been" in regard to OSU's LB's...

now we've gotta deal with Weis being shoved down our collective asses... He seems like a decent guy, from all that I've been able to observe, and I think he's good for the college game. Doesn't make me like ND any better, I can tell ya that.

I'm getting to the point, if it's not from CFN, I consider the analysis or commentary useless (National media wise, I should note)
 
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Buckeyeskickbuttocks said:
Where the media is concerned, I've grown tired of college football coverage. Too reactionary, very little honest analysis. Maybe it's always been that way, but I don't remember it as such.

Off topic, but kinda the point - you've got a guy like Craig James asking "Where have you been" in regard to OSU's LB's...

now we've gotta deal with Weis being shoved down our collective asses... He seems like a decent guy, from all that I've been able to observe, and I think he's good for the college game. Doesn't make me like ND any better, I can tell ya that.

I'm getting to the point, if it's not from CFN, I consider the analysis or commentary useless (National media wise, I should note)
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Totally agree with you here. I think they need to hit on more than just one or two things a week. It seems everyweek all you hear is USC is god, Why Texas and not Va Tech, Is Marcus Vick better than Michael Vick, and Notre Dame is back.

Soon all we are going to here about is the Heisman race and Vince Young, Reggie Bush, and Matt Leinhart.
 
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People fail to grasp that Vick was not a good QB at all in the true sense of the world. I think Marcus is very talented, but I would take Stanton, Young, Leinart, Hodges, the kid from UCLA (name is escaping me), and a few others before Marcus.
 
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now we've gotta deal with Weis being shoved down our collective asses... He seems like a decent guy, from all that I've been able to observe, and I think he's good for the college game. Doesn't make me like ND any better, I can tell ya that.
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for the sake of accuracy, the correct phrase would be either "down our collective throats" or "up our collective asses". If it was shoved down my ass it would either end up in the toilet, or in my pants.
 
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Bucklion said:
Interesting too that Whitlock praises Willingham for getting what he did out of Davie's guys, and derides (at least indirectly) Weiss for getting what he has out of Ty's guys. The entire article is a complete double standard.
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Which is basically what everyone has been saying in one fashion or another on their "feedback" page.
 
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smith403 said:
Was listening to Mike & Mike as I was driving...Whitlock refused to come on the show to defend his article...
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He came on the Dan Patrick show.

Whitlock said he has a history of bringing up racism whether its when a black man is doing something racist (he cited Ron Artest), when it involves a white man (Weis). But, he claimed, "its only when it involves a white man that guys like you call me."

Dan was very polite, said he had Whitlock invited because he wanted to learn more about his perspective on things. Dan talked Whitlock down from the ledge a little, getting him to acknowledge that while Willingham's treatment was harsh it didn't mean it was racist, and got him to assent that you could simply say ND jumped the gun on the 10-year deal.

Overall Patrick made huge quantities of sense. Immediately after Whitlock went off the line he came back with a summary that basically said that there was no racism in his opinion in ND's choice, that TW had won with Defense (which was not improving) and had neglected to improve the Offense. While he believed Ty merited similar treatment to Davie, Dan did not believe Ty was the best coach for ND, and that ND reacted fast to sew up Weis on the first go-around.

He then read over the air a "smattering of opinions" received during the piece. Which stated that Whitlock's all too often tries to bring race into his writing, hence how can you take that stance seriously when the card is so seriously over played?
 
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