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If AG and JT are guilty...

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And it has little to do with being men of strong charecter or whatever the hell your reasoning was. It has to do with keeping your friggin job as long as you can.
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Right. Keeping your job as long as you can. Unless you 1) are planning on retiring anyway, or 2) can find work elsewhere in a heartbeat. If either of those things are true, keeping you "friggin" job as long as you can is not the top priority. It comes down to character. Both of them could do major damage control for their reputations by leaving right now, if the allegations were true. Both of them would know that the handwriting is on the wall, and that they'd better get while the gettin's good.
 
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If Tressel is innocent, he will stay at OSU. If he is not, he will not be hired anywhere else anytime soon, nor does he have the coaching style/philosophy that would mesh well w/ the NFL. He will fight this kicking and screaming for his own good as well as the program.
 
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Gee, Fred Pagac, Jr. has ABSOLUTELY no axe to grind. I call Bullshit. His old man didn't get the HC job and was promptly canned by Tressel. Wasn't Pagac, Jr. also suspended by Tressel at some point for a transgression??? I also think Pagac spent a hell of a lot more time on the pine than he did on the field.

No, there's no way in hell he has an axe to grind.

Gimme a friggin' break.
 
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sand - I figured someone would think I was somehow comparing Bliss' actions to those actions that JT is up against. I'm not. I was merely pointing out that even when you know you are plain busted, you don't just come out and say, "Well hell, you got me" I used Bliss as a prime example of someone who damn well knew he was screwed the moment someone accused him of anything but not to compare what JT has been accused of to the criminal acts of Bliss.

Ironton -
"Right. Keeping your job as long as you can. Unless you 1) are planning on retiring anyway, or 2) can find work elsewhere in a heartbeat. If either of those things are true, keeping you "friggin" job as long as you can is not the top priority. It comes down to character. Both of them could do major damage control for their reputations by leaving right now, if the allegations were true. Both of them would know that the handwriting is on the wall, and that they'd better get while the gettin's good."

You think JT could find work in a heartbeat if he's found to be dirty? No, I'm not saying he is dirty, I'm saying if it comes out that he is, you think they're gonna be knocking the doors down to hire him? As for the retirement thing goes, I simply don't buy it, though I admit it is the "stronger" of your contentions. However, "Both of them could do major damage control for their reputations by leaving right now" makes no sense in the case of AG retiring. If he's retiring, what's the point in saving his reputation? All I'm saying is, you can't have it both ways.

You go back to this notion of charecter... I don't get it. Using Bliss again, you don't think that Baylor fans thought Bliss had charecter before it was clear he is a criminal? Don't fool yourself. There is a fine line between this "charecter" you speak of and lying or otherwise covering up to save your ass. Taking a position of strength doesn't mean you didn't do it. Take Sammy Sosa, I think it was, "Test me. Any time, any place. I'm clean" "OK Sammy, how about a piss test right now." "Ummm.. well... umm.."

I fully expect AG and JT to maintain they didn't do anything wrong, and ultimately I don't think anything major will come of this - at least that is my sincere hope. In any case, your theory as to why AG and JT are to be believed in this case is absurd. You think they have high charecter because you are a fan of OSU. Plain and simple. If this was a Washington Huskies board, you'd be saying the same thing about Newweasel and his betting a couple years back.
 
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In any case, your theory as to why AG and JT are to be believed in this case is absurd. You think they have high charecter because you are a fan of OSU. Plain and simple. If this was a Washington Huskies board, you'd be saying the same thing about Newweasel and his betting a couple years back.
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1. Fine. Absurd. You made your point. I'll try to flesh it out a little more for you.

2. It's "character", not "charecter". I suspect that in addition to not knowing how to spell it, you don't know how to judge it.

3. I think they have high character because they say and do things that men of character say and do. Not because they are at Ohio State. I NEVER thought John Cooper was a man of character, and he coached at Ohio State for about 13 yrs. His teams showed no character at critical moments. They lost most of their biggest games. He was a shameless huckster (huckster means "pitch man" or "cheesy salesman", buttocks). His players left early and rarely graduated. He didn't give a damn about the Ohio State tradition.

4. I don't know about Bliss at Baylor. I don't know how commited he was to teaching morality and values to his players. Was he known for that like Tressel is? Were the Baylor people shocked that a man who displayed such strong commitment to doing right was caught doing wrong? I don't know.

5. All I'm saying is that if Jim Tressel is brilliant enough to come up with a phony "good guy" persona when he's really so dirty, he's smart enough to wiggle out of this too. If he's guilty, it's best to get out before he gets tossed out. That way, he can still spin it his way. If he's really dirty, he's all about spin, because everything he stands for is a fraud.
 
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Saw this post over on the O-Zone from Andy Groom's brother. Take it for what it's worth.

[size=+1]By Groom's Big Bro on 23:29:44 11/25/04 [/size]My brother Andy lived with both Jack and Freddie for two years. When he saw that they had been quoted as saying negative things about the university, he got on the horn to both of them to find out what was going on. Aptly enough, ESPN is trying to put the screws to the university again by misquoting our former players. Both Jack and Freddie both said that the boosters giving perks to players happens at every university. They said they did not implicate the university or Coach Tressel in any way. Just one more way for ESPN to hate on our university. Just wanted to clear that up.
 
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I posted this on another thread but I'll post it here also. I had turkey day with someone in my family I don't see too often and he is in the loop with Gieger. He said that he doesn't think Gieger knows about any of this stuff, first hand. Saying that he is one hell of an actor if he really does know anything. Nothing was said about Tressel though, just the university and Geiger not being involved in this.

I took this as some welcome news because this is my other side of the family that doesn't speak with the side that is in the loop with the coaches (where I got my initial info).
The bad news is he gave me the same reaction the others have when I asked if he thought there was some money being exchanged between boosters and players. No mention of Tressel was made though.
 
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IrontonBuck said:
2. It's "character", not "charecter". I suspect that in addition to not knowing how to spell it, you don't know how to judge it.

3. I think they have high character because they say and do things that men of character say and do. Not because they are at Ohio State. I NEVER thought John Cooper was a man of character, and he coached at Ohio State for about 13 yrs. His teams showed no character at critical moments. They lost most of their biggest games. He was a shameless huckster (huckster means "pitch man" or "cheesy salesman", buttocks). His players left early and rarely graduated. He didn't give a damn about the Ohio State tradition.

4. I don't know about Bliss at Baylor. I don't know how commited he was to teaching morality and values to his players. Was he known for that like Tressel is? Were the Baylor people shocked that a man who displayed such strong commitment to doing right was caught doing wrong? I don't know.

5. All I'm saying is that if Jim Tressel is brilliant enough to come up with a phony "good guy" persona when he's really so dirty, he's smart enough to wiggle out of this too. If he's guilty, it's best to get out before he gets tossed out. That way, he can still spin it his way. If he's really dirty, he's all about spin, because everything he stands for is a fraud.
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So, let me understand, Ironton... You are all about "charActer" and you feel it's proper to engage in ad hominem attacks about my spelling and its relation to my ability to judge character? Then, you take that a step further and suggest I don't know what "Huckster" is, otherwise suggesting that I'm a half wit? I see. Interesting take. You are one class act, bro. (and before you go on and on about me calling YOU absurd, make sure you realize that I'm calling your THEORY absurd, not you. I don't know you, I'm pretty sure you've got a lot to contribute, but in my opinion this theory isn't one of them. That's the fun of these message boards, the exchange of ideas. Even debating ideas...)

Even our little pissing match notwithstanding, surely even you can see that this analysis of character is wholly subjective. Hope my spelling to this point has been up to your very high standards. If you will allow, I'd like to continue...

You admit you don't have any idea how Bliss was characterized while at Baylor. Truth is, I'm not a Baylor fan, so I don't truely know either. As a matter of social psychology, my educated guess is that Baylor fans supported their coach. I know that Bama fans supported Bama's program and coaches. I know that SMU fans supported SMU's program and coaches. I know that Auburn fans supported Auburn's program and coaches. Right up until it was shown they were dirty - regard for their character notwithstanding. Some people think Terry Bowden is a man of character, some don't. See?

With regard to point 5, I invite you to have a look at any prison in America. You'll instantly see guys who were good at playing one part, but not so good at getting their way out of the problems they got themselves in to. In some cases, and it's more particular to the point I'm trying to make, you'll see con-men who, despite being well loved by their victims actually were committing crimes against them. Despite these smarts - that is, to convince people to trust them despite not being trustworthy by nature - they ended up in prison.

Look, we're on the same team here, I don't want Tressel fired or OSU to be put under NCAA sanctions any more than you do. I actually think both Tress and Gieger have very good character - even if I spell that word with an "e" instead of an "a" too frequently. My point has not been to suggest that they don't have character, but to say that I think your position as to why people should think they are "free and clear" in this matter is not as well thought out as it should be.
 
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Buckeyeskickbuttocks said:
So, let me understand, Ironton... You are all about "charActer" and you feel it's proper to engage in ad hominem attacks about my spelling and its relation to my ability to judge character? Then, you take that a step further and suggest I don't know what "Huckster" is, otherwise suggesting that I'm a half wit? I see. Interesting take. You are one class act, bro. (and before you go on and on about me calling YOU absurd, make sure you realize that I'm calling your THEORY absurd, not you. I don't know you, I'm pretty sure you've got a lot to contribute, but in my opinion this theory isn't one of them. That's the fun of these message boards, the exchange of ideas. Even debating ideas...)

Even our little pissing match notwithstanding, surely even you can see that this analysis of character is wholly subjective. Hope my spelling to this point has been up to your very high standards. If you will allow, I'd like to continue...

You admit you don't have any idea how Bliss was characterized while at Baylor. Truth is, I'm not a Baylor fan, so I don't truely know either. As a matter of social psychology, my educated guess is that Baylor fans supported their coach. I know that Bama fans supported Bama's program and coaches. I know that SMU fans supported SMU's program and coaches. I know that Auburn fans supported Auburn's program and coaches. Right up until it was shown they were dirty - regard for their character notwithstanding. Some people think Terry Bowden is a man of character, some don't. See?

With regard to point 5, I invite you to have a look at any prison in America. You'll instantly see guys who were good at playing one part, but not so good at getting their way out of the problems they got themselves in to. In some cases, and it's more particular to the point I'm trying to make, you'll see con-men who, despite being well loved by their victims actually were committing crimes against them. Despite these smarts - that is, to convince people to trust them despite not being trustworthy by nature - they ended up in prison.

Look, we're on the same team here, I don't want Tressel fired or OSU to be put under NCAA sanctions any more than you do. I actually think both Tress and Gieger have very good character - even if I spell that word with an "e" instead of an "a" too frequently. My point has not been to suggest that they don't have character, but to say that I think your position as to why people should think they are "free and clear" in this matter is not as well thought out as it should be.
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What pray tell does any of the foregoing have to do with whether JT is culpable, let alone guilty?

sand - I figured someone would think I was somehow comparing Bliss' actions to those actions that JT is up against. I'm not. I was merely pointing out that even when you know you are plain busted, you don't just come out and say, "Well hell, you got me" I used Bliss as a prime example of someone who damn well knew he was screwed the moment someone accused him of anything but not to compare what JT has been accused of to the criminal acts of Bliss.
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Speak for yourself.

I was raised better than to duck an issue.
 
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