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- Thread starter muffler dragon
- Start date
I can still remember the Playboy issue when she was sitting naked on Santa's lap. I remember thinking at the time that the only infection she could give poor ol' Saint Nick was a social one. How wrong I was apparently
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I'd hate to ruin your weekend by asking you to make your own arguments and back them up rather than slinging guesses around and asking other people to analyze the numbers behind them
But hey, I'll undermine the stance I'm taking for a minute:
Like the 5 seconds it took to find this, the first article I clicked on:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12241559
Here's the first result of my second query
http://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs286/en/
If your goal is saving money as a nation then you should love vaccines. If your goal is anarchy dressed up with T&A, then you should hate them on principle.
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BIATCHabutuka
out of chaos comes playoffs
Weekend will be good. Had a big cheesesteak and fries with vinegar and a lemonade for lunch today. It was great. No pics though.
Yea I really didn't want to do any research, just ask questions and let people come to their own conclusions or research.
From your numbers, it seems like a no brainer that everyone should get vaccinated except in extreme circumstances.
I may have learned something about myself here through this.
I still respect the individual's right to choose, even if it is a bad choice.
I honestly feel the same way about abortion too. Your choice to make, but it is a really bad decision if you do.
I kind of wonder how much better the economy would be if we had all those people back contributing or at least consuming towards GDP. I bet some of them were very attractive too.
In closing though, when allowed a choice for anarchy along with T and A, you know my vote. . . .
Yea I really didn't want to do any research, just ask questions and let people come to their own conclusions or research.
From your numbers, it seems like a no brainer that everyone should get vaccinated except in extreme circumstances.
I may have learned something about myself here through this.
I still respect the individual's right to choose, even if it is a bad choice.
I honestly feel the same way about abortion too. Your choice to make, but it is a really bad decision if you do.
I kind of wonder how much better the economy would be if we had all those people back contributing or at least consuming towards GDP. I bet some of them were very attractive too.
In closing though, when allowed a choice for anarchy along with T and A, you know my vote. . . .
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BIATCHabutuka
out of chaos comes playoffs
you gotta prioritize Max
first a national championship, then the T&A Anarchy.
FYI, the fountain of youth is a young woman. You are only as old as the woman you bang.
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If you don't want to vaccinate your kids, take them to Africa where that is common and see how that works out.
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Onebuckfan
classof76
Africa..hell the area around Cal Berkley probably has less vaccinated kids on a % basis..LOL
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OSUK
Sometimes lucid, mostly confused
I am asked almost every day about my view on vaccines. In one sentence I would summarize it like this: they are not as safe and effective as vaccination zealots would have you believe, and they are not as dangerous and ineffective as anti-vaccination zealots would have you believe.
I believe that the power of decisions about vaccination should be in the hands of parents of minor children, and in the hands of individual adults. It's about managing risks - of choosing to vaccinate or not to. I am very uncomfortable with Big Brother coming in and telling parents they have to inject anything into their children, or telling me I have to inject something into my body. On the other hand, if disease is spreading through a population causing death and impairment, the govt does have an interest in protecting the population. Herd immunity is an important way this is accomplished, and it requires universal vaccination as a goal.
Those two concerns have to be balanced, and circumstances dictate which concern should take precedence over the other. But govt isn't good at adapting to circumstances. It tends to make laws that are in effect for perpetuity and apply to everyone - and that disturbs me. While I may not object to a long-established vaccine, once the government has established its right to control my body in this way, I could end up having to submit to having something introduced into me that I think is unsafe, undesirable, or harmful.
What people generally want to know is what I did with my kids and vaccination (and why). They had MMR (long-established vaccine with relatively low risk of adverse effects). They also had DT. We left out the pertussis (whooping cough is typically not a fatal illness after 1 yoa and the vaccine has higher risk of adverse events). Pertussis swells the epiglottis, and can make breathing difficult or impossible in young ones. We avoided the risks of the vaccine, but understood that the kids would be critically ill if they contracted whooping cough in their first year. Neither child ever got the disease. Polio has a fecal-oral transmission. There are 2 choices for vaccine: Salk and Saban. The Saban is the one almost everyone takes. It is an attenuated, live-virus vaccine taken orally. The Salk is a dead-virus vaccine given by injection. Saban is more effective, giving a stronger acquired immunity. While there is low risk with the Saban, there is no risk with the Salk - plus polio is virtually extinct in the US due to water and sewage treatment. That's it. We don't do flu shots - which may be the biggest waste of time and money in the world of vaccination.
When my daughter was in the 5th grade the school wanted her to have chicken pox, HepB, and genital warts vaccine. You get HepB through contact with body fluids of an infected person: blood, feces, etc and we all know how you get genital warts. She had already had chicken pox. Ohio allows a philosophical exemption, and we used that to tell the school that since our 11 year old girl wasn't an IV drug user or sexually active, we didn't see the need to do those. And that was the end of that. She is a nurse now, and has had every vaccine that is required. When our son was in the Army, he was given every vaccination known to man.
When assesssing risks, different people will come to different conclusions. I have close friends on both sides of this debate, and none are happy with me because I am somewhere in the middle. I lean toward vaccination, but I don't believe it is risk-free. I am aware there are people who have had significant problems with vaccines, but I do not personally know a single individual who has been harmed by a vaccine. That tells me that they are largely safe. However, mandating vaccinations gets govt meddling in families, and usurping the authority of parents - and that makes me very wary. The vax zealots want to frame the issue in science while the anti-vax zealots want to frame it as a philosophical/family/parental authority/political issue. It's both - which explains the on-going struggle to come to a consensus resolution.
I believe that the power of decisions about vaccination should be in the hands of parents of minor children, and in the hands of individual adults. It's about managing risks - of choosing to vaccinate or not to. I am very uncomfortable with Big Brother coming in and telling parents they have to inject anything into their children, or telling me I have to inject something into my body. On the other hand, if disease is spreading through a population causing death and impairment, the govt does have an interest in protecting the population. Herd immunity is an important way this is accomplished, and it requires universal vaccination as a goal.
Those two concerns have to be balanced, and circumstances dictate which concern should take precedence over the other. But govt isn't good at adapting to circumstances. It tends to make laws that are in effect for perpetuity and apply to everyone - and that disturbs me. While I may not object to a long-established vaccine, once the government has established its right to control my body in this way, I could end up having to submit to having something introduced into me that I think is unsafe, undesirable, or harmful.
What people generally want to know is what I did with my kids and vaccination (and why). They had MMR (long-established vaccine with relatively low risk of adverse effects). They also had DT. We left out the pertussis (whooping cough is typically not a fatal illness after 1 yoa and the vaccine has higher risk of adverse events). Pertussis swells the epiglottis, and can make breathing difficult or impossible in young ones. We avoided the risks of the vaccine, but understood that the kids would be critically ill if they contracted whooping cough in their first year. Neither child ever got the disease. Polio has a fecal-oral transmission. There are 2 choices for vaccine: Salk and Saban. The Saban is the one almost everyone takes. It is an attenuated, live-virus vaccine taken orally. The Salk is a dead-virus vaccine given by injection. Saban is more effective, giving a stronger acquired immunity. While there is low risk with the Saban, there is no risk with the Salk - plus polio is virtually extinct in the US due to water and sewage treatment. That's it. We don't do flu shots - which may be the biggest waste of time and money in the world of vaccination.
When my daughter was in the 5th grade the school wanted her to have chicken pox, HepB, and genital warts vaccine. You get HepB through contact with body fluids of an infected person: blood, feces, etc and we all know how you get genital warts. She had already had chicken pox. Ohio allows a philosophical exemption, and we used that to tell the school that since our 11 year old girl wasn't an IV drug user or sexually active, we didn't see the need to do those. And that was the end of that. She is a nurse now, and has had every vaccine that is required. When our son was in the Army, he was given every vaccination known to man.
When assesssing risks, different people will come to different conclusions. I have close friends on both sides of this debate, and none are happy with me because I am somewhere in the middle. I lean toward vaccination, but I don't believe it is risk-free. I am aware there are people who have had significant problems with vaccines, but I do not personally know a single individual who has been harmed by a vaccine. That tells me that they are largely safe. However, mandating vaccinations gets govt meddling in families, and usurping the authority of parents - and that makes me very wary. The vax zealots want to frame the issue in science while the anti-vax zealots want to frame it as a philosophical/family/parental authority/political issue. It's both - which explains the on-going struggle to come to a consensus resolution.
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https://www.npr.org/2019/01/28/6895...state-of-emergency-as-measles-outbreak-contin
Washington State Officials Declare State Of Emergency As Measles Outbreak Continues
January 28, 20199:36 PM ET
VANESSA ROMO
PATTI NEIGHMOND
A measles outbreak in Washington State has triggered a state of emergency. In Clark County, where 35 cases have been reported, 31 were not immunized.
Health officials in Washington have declared a state of emergency and are urging immunization as they scramble to contain a measles outbreak in two counties, while the number of cases of the potentially deadly virus continues to climb in a region with lower than normal vaccination rates.
Washington Department of Health officials announced that as of Monday afternoon there have been 36 confirmed cases and 11 suspected cases of the disease. That is a significant increase from Friday's reported numbers when Gov. Jay Inslee declared a state of emergency. At the time there were 26 confirmed measles cases.
In Friday's statement, Inslee said, "Measles is a highly contagious infectious disease that can be fatal in small children. The existence of 26 confirmed cases in the state of Washington creates an extreme public health risk that may quickly spread to other counties."
Since then nine new cases have been confirmed, all in Clark County, which borders Portland, Ore., creating concern in that state as well.
Washington state epidemiologist Scott Lindquist told NPR's Patti Neighmond this is likely only the beginning of the epidemic since many of the families with infected children traveled to very public places, including Costco, Ikea, the Portland International Airport and the arena where the Trail Blazers play.
Measles virus travels through the air. It can be contracted without even being near a person with the virus because it lingers for up to two hours in the air of a room where a person with the measles has been. It can cause serious complications, including pneumonia and encephalitis, and can be deadly. Inslee notes, "Almost everyone who is not immune will get measles if they are exposed."
Clark County Public Health has identified 35 confirmed cases and 11 suspected cases since Jan. 1, when it first began investigating the outbreak. In all but four instances, the person who had contracted the disease had not been immunized. In the remaining cases, authorities had not yet verified their immunization status.
Cont'd ...
Washington State Officials Declare State Of Emergency As Measles Outbreak Continues
January 28, 20199:36 PM ET
VANESSA ROMO
PATTI NEIGHMOND
A measles outbreak in Washington State has triggered a state of emergency. In Clark County, where 35 cases have been reported, 31 were not immunized.
Health officials in Washington have declared a state of emergency and are urging immunization as they scramble to contain a measles outbreak in two counties, while the number of cases of the potentially deadly virus continues to climb in a region with lower than normal vaccination rates.
Washington Department of Health officials announced that as of Monday afternoon there have been 36 confirmed cases and 11 suspected cases of the disease. That is a significant increase from Friday's reported numbers when Gov. Jay Inslee declared a state of emergency. At the time there were 26 confirmed measles cases.
In Friday's statement, Inslee said, "Measles is a highly contagious infectious disease that can be fatal in small children. The existence of 26 confirmed cases in the state of Washington creates an extreme public health risk that may quickly spread to other counties."
Since then nine new cases have been confirmed, all in Clark County, which borders Portland, Ore., creating concern in that state as well.
Washington state epidemiologist Scott Lindquist told NPR's Patti Neighmond this is likely only the beginning of the epidemic since many of the families with infected children traveled to very public places, including Costco, Ikea, the Portland International Airport and the arena where the Trail Blazers play.
Measles virus travels through the air. It can be contracted without even being near a person with the virus because it lingers for up to two hours in the air of a room where a person with the measles has been. It can cause serious complications, including pneumonia and encephalitis, and can be deadly. Inslee notes, "Almost everyone who is not immune will get measles if they are exposed."
Clark County Public Health has identified 35 confirmed cases and 11 suspected cases since Jan. 1, when it first began investigating the outbreak. In all but four instances, the person who had contracted the disease had not been immunized. In the remaining cases, authorities had not yet verified their immunization status.
Cont'd ...
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