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MLB General Discussion (Official Thread)

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AKAKBUCK said:
Maybe so... if you want to look at it that way... but the scorebook.. (if there is an appeal) is simply going to reflect that the runner on third simply did not advance to home... it would be similar to anytime a ball were thrown out of play and the umpire were to award a runner only one base even if he took two... or even more similar to a guy crossing the plate on a ground ball before a batter was put out at first to end an inning.
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I see your point that it would be in the scorebook as 3 outs. So maybe, officially, its 3 outs. But the defense had to do something extra to get that run to not count. Your situation of the guy crossing home before the batter is out at first is close, but I think its only the same if the defense then had to go tag the guy out (even if he's already sitting in the dugout).
 
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Sloopy45 said:
The only way 4 outs is possible is if you have one out, and the batter lines into an unassisted, simultaneous Triple Play. And I don't even know how that's possible.
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What if there are runners on first and second with a full count. The runners are going on the pitch, with the guy on first getting an exceptionally good jump. The second baseman covers second. The batter hits a low line drive up the middle. The second baseman, while standing on second, reaches down to pick off the line drive and has his glove aginst the sliding runner from first as he catches the ball. This is the best I can come up with for a simultaneous triple play.
 
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Sloopy45 said:
AKAK: "Again... it could happen... but once again... its not '4' outs... assuming two parts of the triple play are the catch and a force at a bag... you probably score those two as a double paly and move along."

What if there was one out with a runner on first & second, and the baserunner on first takes off for second ... the batter lines a shot off the baserunner (two outs), and the ball richochets in air (never touches the ground) to the 2B or SS who catches the ball while simultaneously standing on the base. That's outs 3 & 4 recorded on the very same instant.

Zurp: "The run supposedly counts because no appeal was made at third base."

This is correct. But you can't appeal after the 3rd out is made. Once the baserunner is tagged out, Inning over, and the run scores.
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Sloops... I beleive in you scenario the ball is dead once the runner has interfered with it.


I can't imagine you couldn't appeal that.

Here's the Ruling (Its not exaclty the same scenario.. but is the same in that it involves an appeal after an apparent run (and third out) scores.

Appeal plays may require an umpire to recognize an apparent "fourth out." If the third out is made during a play in which an appeal play is sustained on another runner, the appeal play decision takes precedence in determining the out. If there is more than one appeal during a play that ends a half inning, the defense may elect to take the out that gives it the advantage. If two runners arrive at home base about the same time and the first runner misses home plate but a second runner legally touches the plate, the runner is tagged out on his attempt to come back and touch the base or is called out, on appeal, then he shall be considered as having been put out before the second runner scored and being the third out. Second runner's run shall not count, as provided in Rule 7.12.

Anyway.... the defense will get to choose the 3 outs it likes best. Also Sloops the appeal can occur as long as anohter play (like the next pitch) hasn't happened or... at teh end of a hlf inning... the Defense hasn't left the field...
 
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I'm pretty sure.... I beleive in 999,999 scenarios out of a million... you'd want the ball to be dead after interference.... what if the ball hit the runner as the first out from while he advanced from 1st base, skipped and skipped into the outfield while a guy on second scored? Dead ball.

Anyway... the four outs are not recorded.... And I'm not comfortable calling it four outs since the "4th out" was actually a result of an illegal play by the [a]runner... but... I see how you can look at it that way.
 
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Sloopy45 said:
But are we sure that its a dead-ball when a line drive hits the runner?
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Yes. A runner is out when:

  1. He is touched by a fair ball in fair territory before the ball has touched or passed an infielder. The ball is dead and no runner may score, nor runners advance, except runners forced to advance.
 
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That depends. Are you talking about adding defense to the equation ?
I guess, since Soriano leads major league 2nd baseman in errors, I'd say no.

For power though, they're pretty impressive.

If you're talking defense, I believe the Mets had a great D in either 98 or 99.
Olerud,Alfonzo, Ordonez and Ventura.

That Indians lineup was pretty good, too.
 
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The Orioles of the Brooks Robinson years

The early 80's cards with ozzie..

Reds already mentioned

I think some of those Brooklyn Dodgers teams were good..

I personally don't think the Rangers guys would fit anywhere near the top 25. They are all too young and less experienced.

Iguess depends on what your criteria is. One year wonders? Offense? Defense? Do you include the catcher - I do. Offense AND Defense?

Plus it is hard to compare different decades...game changes so much.
 
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The Dodgers infield of the 70's was one of the greatest of all times, but was overshaddowed, at that time, by the Big Red Machine


Russell
Lopes
Cey
Garvey

I think they all played together for like 10 years, to boot.
 
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Mr. Incredible: "The Big Red Machine infield of Concepcion, Rose, Perez and Morgan."

That's probably better. 2 Hall of Famers, 1 should've been, and a perrenial All-Star SS. Statistically they don't match the power & RBI production of the Texas infield, tho'. Much better defensively tho'.

BuckStocksHere: "The Orioles of the Brooks Robinson years"

I'd take the Texas infield offensively over the Orioles. Plus, I can't even name the 2B on those teams. 1 through 4 on the infield, Texas is way better. Defensively, its not a contest: Baltimore all the way.

"The early 80's cards with ozzie.."

Not a chance. Offensively its not even close. Tom Herr, Jose Oquendo, Jack Clark, & Ozzie? Jack the Ripper is the only decent (underline: DECENT) offensive player in the bunch.

"I think some of those Brooklyn Dodgers teams were good.."

Snider-Robinson-Reese-& who else? Again, 1 through 4 not as good, altough 1 thru 3 are all HOF'ers ..
 
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