Proof of the Existence of God

[JBaney45]

You assume that there always was something. How can that be?
AND if there was, what was it. how did it get there? When was the last time you something made from nothing?
So tell me how the first thing ever to be got there?

^^ This

The laws of science explain how things within the world interact with each other, it offers nothing about how "nothing" came to be "something". The laws of science would infact state that things don't just "appear out of nothing"

 

[muffler dragon]

I honestly don't remember anything about, within one generation's time of Israel's establishment, in the bible.

I'm beginning to wonder if you're trolling my ass.

In your previous list, you used Matthew 24 (which I subsequently didn't comment on).

4. Exponential growth on earth. Mathew 24:3-8 talks about some of the things we will face before the end. In fact it's the end, but the beginning

5. Wars/Famines/Earthquakes..again Mathew 24:3-8

6. False Prohesis...Mathew 24:3-8

9. Gods word spread throughout the world...Mathew 24:14 states "And the good news about the Kingdom will be preached throught the whole world, so that all nations will hear it; and then the end will come. It's also said again in Revelations 14:6-7

That is what I am going off of

Which I will ask you if you have read Matthew 24:32-41? Pay particular attention to verse 24 which I've emphasized.

Parable of the Fig Tree

32 ?Now learn the parable from the fig tree: when its branch has already become tender and puts forth its leaves, you know that summer is near; 33 so, you too, when you see all these things, [u]recognize that [v]He is near, right at the [w]door. 34 Truly I say to you, this [x]generation will not pass away until all these things take place. 35 Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will not pass away.
36 ?But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone. 37 For [y]the coming of the Son of Man will be just like the days of Noah. 38 For as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, 39 and they did not [z]understand until the flood came and took them all away; so will the coming of the Son of Man be. 40 Then there will be two men in the field; one [aa]will be taken and one [ab]will be left. 41 Two women will be grinding at the [ac]mill; one [ad]will be taken and one [ae]will be left.

Does this ring any bells?

 

[Best Buckeye]

^^ This

The laws of science explain how things within the world interact with each other, it offers nothing about how "nothing" came to be "something". The laws of science would infact state that things don't just "appear out of nothing"

Exactly

 

[Brewtus]

^^ This

The laws of science explain how things within the world interact with each other, it offers nothing about how "nothing" came to be "something". The laws of science would infact state that things don't just "appear out of nothing"

That's not correct on the quantum level. And I strongly recommend you read Lawrence Krauss's fascinating book A Universe from Nothing: Why There is Something Rather than Nothing, or watch his YouTube lecture on the subject.

But I do acknowledge that science is far from certain on how the universe came to be and what, if anything, there was before our universe. Bottom line is that we don't know, but theists also don't know. Pointing to an invisible being in the sky and claiming "he did it" doesn't answer anything. It provides no useful explanation since we don't know the characteristics of God and how he created our universe. You might as well claim that an alien race from another universe seeded our universe since that has as much supporting evidence.

 

[PlanetFrnd]

^^ This

The laws of science explain how things within the world interact with each other, it offers nothing about how "nothing" came to be "something". The laws of science would infact state that things don't just "appear out of nothing"

I'm sorry, but the logic of 'we don't know' or 'it's not fathomable' so it must be God is, with as much empathy as I can muster, very very incomplete. I'm not arguing against the existence of God, in this case, but this is not the way to prove his/its/His/their existence.

 

[Buckeyeskickbuttocks]

That's not correct on the quantum level. And I strongly recommend you read Lawrence Krauss's fascinating book A Universe from Nothing: Why There is Something Rather than Nothing, or watch his YouTube lecture on the subject.

I haven't read Krauss' book, but Theoretical Physicist Michio Kaku thinks there's two kinds of nothing. One, is absolute nothing. Two, is the nothingness of a vacuum - which still is "something" in that it is a "space," though wholly empty. Still, it has dimension, which is something.

He posits our universe comes from the second kind of nothing, not the former (at least, that's how I understand him).

Was there ever absolute nothingness? I'd say even people who believe in G-d have to admit, if he's something then there has never been actual nothing. On the other hand, and Muffler can correct me if I'm wrong, I suspect the Rambam would say G-d is nothing.

-----

I was thinking about our discussion yesterday and how you said:

I agree with you and if I ever did encounter something in our universe that was created from nothing, I would consider it strong evidence of some kind of supernatural event.

I was thinking about quantum mechanics and virtual particles Now, that said, I don't pretend to understand quantum mechanics. I'm just aware that there may actually be the evidence you're looking for.

I don't know... food for thought.

 

[Brewtus]

I was thinking about our discussion yesterday and how you said:

I agree with you and if I ever did encounter something in our universe that was created from nothing, I would consider it strong evidence of some kind of supernatural event.

I was thinking about quantum mechanics and virtual particles Now, that said, I don't pretend to understand quantum mechanics. I'm just aware that there may actually be the evidence you're looking for.

I don't know... food for thought.

You are correct and I should have been more clear on what I meant. While there is still much to learn about the quantum level, I consider virtual particles a byproduct of the natural physical laws of the universe and not a miracle performed by God. I was thinking about something much more on a grand scale: such as humans popping into existence from nothing or even a whole planet (if God is omnipotent, surely this is possible). Or, as I mentioned yesterday, I'd even be extremely impressed with a missing limb from an amputee suddenly appearing or even just a finger.

 

[Buckeyeskickbuttocks]

You are correct and I should have been more clear on what I meant. While there is still much to learn about the quantum level, I consider virtual particles a byproduct of the natural physical laws of the universe and not a miracle performed by God. I was thinking about something much more on a grand scale: such as humans popping into existence from nothing or even a whole planet (if God is omnipotent, surely this is possible). Or, as I mentioned yesterday, I'd even be extremely impressed with a missing limb from an amputee suddenly appearing or even just a finger.

Like I said, I really don't know enough about quantum theory to speak much about it. I suppose I'd ask - could it be the other way around? That is to say, natural physical laws are the byproduct of virtual particles?

I ask it because in my limited knowledge, virtual particles become real when they interact with ... not sure what to call it.. I'll say "the environment" whatever that is... That is, sometimes they don't pop into existence and then pop right back out, but instead, stay here.

Could it be that our universe is like a big popcorn maker? Where virtual particles became "real" particles (I don't even know that this is the correct way to say that)... or... I guess what I mean to describe is like this ...

All virtual particles have properties x. One "pops into existence," interacts with some real particle somehow and it stops acting like x, becomes redefined as Y and remains Y for eternity. It may have become Z, it may have become A... if that makes sense...

Perhaps "it all began" when two virtual particles popped into existence in the EXACT same place (thus interacting with each other)?

 

[Buckeye513]

You assume that there always was something. How can that be?

I never stated that there was ever nothing or always something, but you answered your own question. When was the last time you made something from nothing? The energy that existed in the singularity before its inflation, that led to subatomic particles, that led to atomic nuclei, that led to atoms, that led to elements, that surrounds us today, could be eternal. Or maybe not.

In any case I suggest looking up quantum vacuums and fluctuations.

 

[Best Buckeye]

I never stated that there was ever nothing or always something, but you answered your own question. When was the last time you made something from nothing? The energy that existed in the singularity before its inflation, that led to subatomic particles, that led to atomic nuclei, that led to atoms, that led to elements, that surrounds us today, could be eternal. Or maybe not.

In any case I suggest looking up quantum vacuums and fluctuations.

Why would I look that up? there is nothing proved in it.
where did "the energy that existed" come from?

 

[Buckeye513]

Why would I look that up? there is nothing proved in it.
where did "the energy that existed" come from?

Where did God come from? Prove it. Right now. Or I'm right.

 

[Best Buckeye]

Where did God come from? Prove it. Right now. Or I'm right.

An eternal all powerful God would not have to come from anything.
I asked you to prove the energy question first....
Prove there isnt one or how the world did start , right now . Or I'm right.
Science can prove evolution which of course is a fact but I don't think it will ever be able to prove how it all started.

 

[PlanetFrnd]

I asked you to prove the energy question first....

Yeah, stupidhead

 

[Buckeye513]

An eternal all powerful God would not have to come from anything.
I asked you to prove the energy question first....
Prove there isnt one or how the world did start , right now . Or I'm right.
Science can prove evolution which of course is a fact but I don't think it will ever be able to prove how it all started.

The eternal all powerful energy would not have to come from anything, nor can it be destroyed. I see no proof of God in this post. Please begin all of your prayers now with "Dear Quantum Fluctuations". They get angry.

You asked how something can come from nothing and then when I replied you said "I don't want to understand things". Bgrad wonders how threads like this end up like they do.

 

[muffler dragon]

On the other hand, and Muffler can correct me if I'm wrong, I suspect the Rambam would say G-d is nothing.

I can't say one way or the other. I've been so out of the loop for so long that the only thing I remotely recollect is the 13 principles (and none of them explicitly state anything regarding God and nothing):

http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/332555/jewish/Maimonides-13-Principles-of-Faith.htm