Seahawks (ex-USC) Coach Pete Carroll (official thread)

[billmac91]

Not cool on Pete's part, but Mays is stupid as hell if he thought he was a possible top-15 pick this year.

I think part of it probably boils down to being duped into coming back for a senior season, when he was a sure-fire first rounder had he left his junior season. Most people recognized his poor coverage skills as a junior, but he wa sout of position so frequently as a senior it moved him to a second round grade. Pete should have pulled a Tressel and told him to leave. But Pete asked him to come back, improve, and help win a title. No title, sliding stock, and then Pete passed on him in the first. Just a culmination of things. Taylor should have pulled a Sanchez....

 

[Meyer]

Basically Mays wanted Petey to tell him straight up that his backpedal is slow and that he can't cover and wasn't worth a top 15 pick I guess..

 

[Oh8ch]

Taylor should have pulled a Sanchez....

????????

 

[3074326]

I think part of it probably boils down to being duped into coming back for a senior season, when he was a sure-fire first rounder had he left his junior season. Most people recognized his poor coverage skills as a junior, but he wa sout of position so frequently as a senior it moved him to a second round grade. Pete should have pulled a Tressel and told him to leave. But Pete asked him to come back, improve, and help win a title. No title, sliding stock, and then Pete passed on him in the first. Just a culmination of things. Taylor should have pulled a Sanchez....

I definitely agree with that and think Mays has a legitimate complaint there.. but the way he's been talking, he still thought he was going to be top 15 this year.

As a 49er fan, I'm glad he went back to USC for another year.

 

[buckeyesin07]

Pete should have pulled a Tressel and told him to leave. But Pete asked him to come back, improve, and help win a title. No title, sliding stock, and then Pete passed on him in the first. Just a culmination of things.

A lot of people are trashing Mays for what I've heard labeled "whining" and the like, but I think he was justified in calling Pete out if things unfolded as you say here. IMO, one of the biggest problems with Carroll at USC is that he let his interest in trying to win NCs override his player's best interests when it came to advising them whether or not to enter the NFL Draft early. Sanchez was a perfect example--Pete berates Sanchez at Sanchez's announcement press conference and says Sanchez isn't ready to turn pro. Then Sanchez proves Pete horribly wrong (and motivated by self-interest) by leading his team to the AFC title game in his rookie year.

 

[BuckeyeNation27]

there's a lot about this post that isn't exactly accurate. I wouldn't say he berated Sanchez.....and I wouldn't say Sanchez led the Jets to the AFC as much as their defense and run game did. he did, however, play very well as a rookie and should get lots of credit for that. by the end of the year, he was just asked to not make a mistake, though.

 

[buckeyesin07]

there's a lot about this post that isn't exactly accurate. I wouldn't say he berated Sanchez.....

Well, Carroll called it "a bad choice," and said that the "facts are so strong against this decision," and "the truth is there--he should've stayed for another year."

Which, of course, is made all the more comical when you consider the USC QBs who have not left USC early (Palmer, Leinart, Booty) haven't had near the success that Sanchez had in just one season.

and I wouldn't say Sanchez led the Jets to the AFC as much as their defense and run game did. he did, however, play very well as a rookie and should get lots of credit for that. by the end of the year, he was just asked to not make a mistake, though.

Regardless of whether you think he led them to the AFC title game, he still proved that Carroll was 100% wrong when he said that Sanchez wasn't ready for the NFL. Which proves my original point that you could argue that Carroll wasn't looking out for the best interests of his players when counseling them regarding whether to enter the NFL Draft early.

 

[BuckeyeNation27]

Well, Carroll called it "a bad choice," and said that the "facts are so strong against this decision," and "the truth is there--he should've stayed for another year."

Which, of course, is made all the more comical when you consider the USC QBs who have not left USC early (Palmer, Leinart, Booty) haven't had near the success that Sanchez had in just one season.



Regardless of whether you think he led them to the AFC title game, he still proved that Carroll was 100% wrong when he said that Sanchez wasn't ready for the NFL. Which proves my original point that you could argue that Carroll wasn't looking out for the best interests of his players when counseling them regarding whether to enter the NFL Draft early.

That I can agree with.

 

[jimotis4heisman]

carroll has an obligation to draft all of his former players? ask butch davis how that one works out... he has no official duty to his former usc players in regard to drafting, signing or paying them. did he act in the best interest of his players, the program, and/or himself. that one is more difficult.

then again nfl teams arent as easily duped as the casual fan. then again they arent free from mistake, see the boz, tim couch, aklai smith, etc. but then again often times they can spot role players, non nfl players and real duds. in this case i find it hard to believe that most teams werent fully aware of mays limitations and inabilities. not saying he cant or other limited players cant be impact players, however its uphill sledding.

 

[jwinslow]

carroll has an obligation to draft all of his former players?

yeah that's not what is being discussed here, Jim:

the misleading feedback he gave to Taylor Mays & the self-serving feedback and temper tantrum surrounding Sanchez' decision.


Anyone with a few hours of playing Madden, let alone a defensive guru, could tell that Taylor had a number of major flaws when projecting to the next level.

 

[jimotis4heisman]

aware of that. however, in most circumstances with the exception of rbs, i think staying can be beneficial.

mays im sure got his nfl feedback. unless that was redacted by carroll, hard to prove that.

im willing to say that had mays gone last year he wasnt a 1st rounder either. seeing through that smoke and mirrors was easy. some drank the kool-aid, just as we saw with the likes of a troy smith and/or kurt coleman, etc. some drank it with mays, the nfl doesnt get to getting drunk on the juice like many others...

was he on a nc caliber team? eh hard to say. was it better for his draft position? eh hard to say. did he benefit or lose? eh hard to say. did his coach purposely mislead him for merely his own personal gain? eh hard to say.

its always easy to blame advice. all ive learned is free advice is worth the price you pay...

 

[jwinslow]

mays im sure got his nfl feedback. unless that was redacted by carroll, hard to prove that.

Did you read the first post on Mays/Carroll, posted by me? Because it seems like you're just arguing about vague generalities.

 

[jimotis4heisman]

mays says carroll says he was "fine" and "ok"

i wouldnt be happy if my team drafted "fine" and "ok" with a 2nd round pick. you know, id expect at least "good" at that point in the draft.

maybe mays is the kind of person who performs best assured, calmed and relaxed.

lets be frank, taylor mays wasnt going to turn into ronnie lott overnight by carroll telling him his backpedal sucked rocks. or that he missed open field tackles going for the home run hit. mays should have some level of responsibility for his actions, blaming carroll im not sure is real productive. if he does blame it all on carroll hell see him twice a year in the nfcwest matchup...

that being said, i think that is one of the things tressel has done a relatively good job of. being honest and frank with kids. having them seek out advice and counsel from others who are honest and knowledgeable. i also credit coop for really opening up the program to pro scouts. it has been an approach which has been mutually beneficial. nfl teams can get looks at kids, and the kids can get some candid, sometimes off the record feedback, tips, advice, etc...

 

[jwinslow]

mays says carroll says he was "fine" and "ok"

i wouldnt be happy if my team drafted "fine" and "ok" with a 2nd round pick. you know, id expect at least "good" at that point in the draft.

Take things out of context much?

That was in conjunction with "I didn't have anything to worry about"... it was in the same sentence JO.

There's no getting around that quote. Maybe Taylor lied or misrepresented CPC's comments, but you're completely rebuilding what Taylor said in order to fit your argument.

maybe mays is the kind of person who performs best assured, calmed and relaxed.

lets be frank, taylor mays wasnt going to turn into ronnie lott overnight by carroll telling him his backpedal sucked rocks. or that he missed open field tackles going for the home run hit.

mays should have some level of responsibility for his actions, blaming carroll im not sure is real productive.

Taylor Mays is an immature college graduate who feels betrayed by a coach who allegedly gave advice that benefited USC when he should have been looking out for the kid.

Pete is a seasoned head coach. How about the level of responsibility for Pete's actions with Sanchez?

that being said, i think that is one of the things tressel has done a relatively good job of. being honest and frank with kids. having them seek out advice and counsel from others who are honest and knowledgeable. i also credit coop for really opening up the program to pro scouts. it has been an approach which has been mutually beneficial. nfl teams can get looks at kids, and the kids can get some candid, sometimes off the record feedback, tips, advice, etc...

Meanwhile many of the USC players feel like Carroll was less than forthright, not just Mays.

 

[jimotis4heisman]

i guess you sleep in the bed you make. its not like it was his first year there, its not like any reasonable investigation into things would have revealed such perceptions about the program. or for a matter of fact the draft day revelations that taylor mays had.

then again, i think their are a lot worse things/issues you can complain about ol petey than this. and for the record, i mean take a look at his past nfl experience and tell me you really subscribe to the thought that hes a great nfl talent/personnel evaluator.... in a league that had a hard salary cap, a draft system that rewards sucking, and "balanced scheduling" that should assure every teams goes .500 at least every other year... and petey was well, look at his record.

this might be smoke, and where there is smoke, oft times there is fire. however, this is like a match, and brushfires and wildfires burn around this guy...