The Rematch/No Rematch Thread

[osugrad21]

Dispatch

OHIO STATE FOOTBALL
Scramble to play Buckeyes begins
OSU players will keep eyes on games next two weeks
Tuesday, November 21, 2006
Tim May
THE COLUMBUS DISPATCH

Ohio State has earned its ticket to the national championship game. Now the Buckeyes can kick back and enjoy the pushing and shoving that?s about to commence among the one-loss wonders trying to grab the other ticket.
Taking in games the next two weeks will be like watching episodes of Survivor ? Bowl Championship Series.
"I don?t think anyone totally understands how they come up with the numbers for the BCS," Ohio State senior defensive tackle David Patterson said. "I think there are a lot of great one-loss teams out there, some of them have some conference championships to play for, so there are still a lot of great teams we could end up facing. Whoever that turns out to be, we welcome the challenge."
The Buckeyes have heard the scenarios: If Southern California wins out over Notre Dame and UCLA, the Trojans are in. If not, if Florida wins out over Florida State and Arkansas (in the Southeastern Conference title game), the Gators are in. Maybe. Florida would have to muster enough support from the two polls and six computer ratings to edge past Michigan in the BCS rankings. If not, then it will be Ohio State-Michigan again. At that point, it won?t matter whether such a matchup, on the heels of Ohio State?s 42-39 victory Saturday, might be considered a sacrilege by football purists.
"It is a tough situation to deal with, in the sense that every team we could possibly face is going to have one loss," receiver Roy Hall said. "So how do you determine whose one loss was worse than another team?s?
"USC lost to Oregon State. Is Michigan losing to Ohio State equivalent to USC losing to Oregon State? I don?t think so. But if people want to see us play USC, Florida or whoever, something different, that?s the way it will be. But I think the draw to another Ohio State-Michigan game, considering how close the last one was and understanding how that game would be so much different, I think it would still be a good draw."
It?s a valid point: Is there a better one-loss team in the nation than Michigan? Should Michigan?s second-cousin relationship to Ohio State prevent the two from playing again?
But there?s another point: Hypothetically, if Michigan wins Jan. 8, what has been proven? Michigan would have the national title and Ohio State would have the outright Big Ten title. Try explaining that to the grandkids years from now.
"It would be a weird situation for the simple fact that usually during bowl practice you are seeing films of teams you?ve never played before," Patterson said. "Like last year, we were watching Notre Dame and we got to watch their game with USC, and we had never really seen USC on film before. ? It?s a different feeling, watching a different type of football."
That wouldn?t be the case preparing for Michigan.
"We?d still have everything fresh in our minds, what they tried to do, the things they tried to do against us they hadn?t done against anyone else this year," Patterson said. So many possibilities. But all the Buckeyes can do is sit back and wait for the answer.
"You?ve just got to go with what they have for you," defensive back Antonio Smith said. "We know in college football that one loss usually throws you out of the national championship game. Obviously, this year is a little different, with a lot of teams having just one loss.
"That just makes it a little more challenging, a little more interesting."

 

[osugrad21]

Link

Rematch not best way to go

From the minute the final gun sounded to end Saturday's Ohio State-Michigan game, pundits and talking heads began talking about a possible rematch.
Michigan running back Mike Hart also made some disparaging remarks about the top-ranked Buckeyes, despite the fact that OSU put more holes in the Michigan defense than mice through cheese.
"I guarantee, if we play them again, it would be a whole different game," Hart said. "We should have got them the first time around. We didn't, so if it (rematch) doesn't happen, that's our fault. But if we played them again, it would be a whole different game. Guarantee that."
Sour grapes don't make a fine whine, Mike.The fact is this: Michigan had its chance to get to Glendale, Ariz., for the national championship game. The Wolverines didn't get it done.
Now, they want a rematch. Do they deserve one?
My answer is no.
The Wolverines got a bite of the apple, now they are clamoring for another one. A rematch would make the first game between the two teams absolutely worthless.
If the Buckeyes and Wolverines played again and Michigan won, it would be crowned national champ. No ifs ands or buts. Ohio State, which had to earn its way to the title game by winning, would have lost to a team that didn't.
How fair is that to Ohio State? Let's face it, there have been many great Ohio State teams that didn't get an OSU-Michigan replay.
Ohio State coach Jim Tressel said a team should win its conference to get a chance to play for the title
This all might be a moot point anyway. Southern California, which is third in the latest BCS standings, is just seven one-thousandth of a point in back of Michigan. The Wolverines' season is over, so they have no chance to improve their BCS point total.
The Trojans still have to play Notre Dame and UCLA. Should they win out, which is not a lock by any means, they would pass Michigan into the second spot and meet Ohio State for the national title.
It's also possible that Florida could pass the Wolverines with wins over Florida State and Arkansas in the Southeastern Conference championship game, but that is less likely.
Notre Dame? Arkansas? Not a chance.
People still remember the 47-21 beating Michigan gave the Irish in South Bend. Arkansas has won 10 straight games, and could increase that to 12 before the season's over. But the Razorbacks can't get past the 50-14 thumping they got from USC clear back in the first week of the season.

 

[Ohio Steeler]

if USC win's there last 2 games they will pass Michigan in the BCS

 

[BB73]

All 4 guys at CFN say no on the rematch.

cfn

Tuesday Question - Rematch?

 

[DaddyBigBucks]

It's been said before several times, but it needs to be repeated until it sinks in:

How do you win the turnover battle 3-0, still lose the game, and deserve a rematch????

In order to give TSUN a mulligan for this game, shouldn't there be some reason to give them a mulligan? What reason do we have? That they are better than every other team in the nation apart from OSU? How do we know?

What other reason is there to give them a mulligan? What bad luck befell them that makes us think they would fare better in a rematch? Would they be likely to be +3 or better in TurnOver Margin in the 2nd game? No? Then why are we even having this discussion?

Everyone believes that TSUN is the 2nd best team or close to it. But it has not been proven by any means.

.
.
.

I have said before that I favor a play-off; but I understand those who prefer the sanctity of the regular season. Truthfully, I enjoy the specialness of college football's regular season. If we get a play-off, I will miss it. But I still want a play-off.

The reason I bring this up is because I see no reason to piss all over the sanctity of the regular season for anything less than a play-off. A rematch in the title game would give us the worst of both worlds: One of the most meaningful regular season games ever played by Ohio State will be rendered meaningless; and we will still be left with BCS controversy.

That having been said, seeing Troy go 4-0 against them wouldn't be all bad.

 

[lvbuckeye]

it seems that EVERYONE has lost their historical perspective and forgotten what got us here in the first place.

remember this? 1996. there were four undefeated teams going into the last week of the regular season: Arizona State, Florida, Florida State and Ohio State. ASU won, OSU lost, and FSU BEAT UF 24-20. due to the bowl ties, Ohio State was matched up with ASU in the Rose Bowl, and for some inexplicable reason, UF and FSU got to do it again, and Florida rolled the Noles to claim its sole MNC. now, the resulting uproar from ASU, FSU, and OSU fans as well as the rest of the nation caused the Bowl Alliance to be formed. the goal of the Bowl Alliance was to try to ensure that the best possible matchups would occur in the bowl games, and to diminish the likelyhood of regional rematches which naturally cause controversy. the Big Ten, Pac Ten, and the Rose Bowl did NOT sign on with the Bowl Alliance.

then, in 1997, Michigan and Nebraska were both undefeated, yet, because of the Rose Bowl and the Big and Pac Ten conferences refusal to sign up with the Bowl Alliance, M went out to Pasadena and Nebraska went off to the Orange Bowl, and rather than a controversy concerning which one loss team was best, as was the year before, we ended up with two undefeated teams and a SPLIT national title. at this point, all hell broke loose. something HAD to be done. this just would not stand.

and so we come to the BCS. first off, YES, the goal of the BCS is to get the best possible matchups and to pit the top two teams against each other. however, the goal of the BCS is ALSO to prevent regional rematches which can ONLY create more controversy and can NOT resolve the problem. so we've come full circle. the very system that was put in place to ensure that such a rematch would NOT occur could, quite conceivably give us another one.

which brings me to the logical fallacy. you opine that everyone knows that M is the second best team in the nation. i say, not so fast. you say that everyone knows that M would roll Florida, i say ask Ball State. surely you have heard the axiom that any team can win on any given day. however, before i get too far off track, rather than focusing on what we THINK we know, let's focus on what we KNOW we know.

we KNOW that Michigan is the second best team in the BIG TEN. we think that they are probably the 2nd best in the country, but there is no way we can quantify that assumption. the only thing we KNOW is that Michigan isn't even the best team in its own conference. by reason, if a team is not the best team in its own conference, IT CANNOT BE THE BEST TEAM IN THE NATION. other teams in other conferences might just be as good, but we don't know that because they haven't played. SO, in order to find out if Ohio State is the NATIONAL Champion, it would naturally follow that Ohio State should play the best team from another part of the NATION. USC, Florida, Arkansas, Boise State, whoever.

again, the reason that the BCS was put in place was to ensure that there would be no regional rematches and to ensure that the best two teams that would not ordinarily meet be matched up to play for the National Championship.

a small aside. there have been two instances in which a team that did not win it's conference has been placed in the BCS title game. they both got rolled. also, NO one loss team has beaten an undefeated team in the BCS title game.

sorry, M. you had your chance.

 

[HailToMichigan]

Alright, I know all the arguments against a rematch, and I myself have gone on the record saying I don't want one. It'd be a lose-lose for Michigan. But ask yourself this: Suppose Smith and Pittman had botched the handoff on the play that led to the clinching first down, Michigan recovers, and wins the game. I've heard a lot of crowing that, well, if not for the three turnovers, it wouldn't have been as close, so no doubt, if the hypothetical fourth turnover had happened, you guys would all be feeling robbed. Be honest: how many of you would want a rematch?

 

[jwinslow]

It'd be a lose-lose for Michigan

How is it possibly a lose-lose for UM? If they win, they are awarded a title (at least partial) while only winning one of two. If they lose, they merely reinforce what already happened (and was lost during that game).

OSU has nothing to gain by beating UM. The bragging rights for JT, Troy, beating English's reborn team, beating Carr's best team vs JT, etc. are already in place from last saturday. Even if OSU beats UM again, the title will lose some credibility with non-big ten fans. They'll call the rematch a waste and OSU was lucky to avoid USC in the title game.

 

[osugrad21]

Alright, I know all the arguments against a rematch, and I myself have gone on the record saying I don't want one. It'd be a lose-lose for Michigan. But ask yourself this: Suppose Smith and Pittman had botched the handoff on the play that led to the clinching first down, Michigan recovers, and wins the game. I've heard a lot of crowing that, well, if not for the three turnovers, it wouldn't have been as close, so no doubt, if the hypothetical fourth turnover had happened, you guys would all be feeling robbed. Be honest: how many of you would want a rematch?

I can honestly tell you I would want a rematch for selfish reasons, but I would not expect nor demand one. If tOSU had lost at home, they would not be deserving imo.

 

[sandgk]

lvbuckeye - great post. We forget the history of how the BCS came into being and risk having history repeat itself.

 

[Jeffcat]

i say NO to a rematch and i can tell you perfectly as to why that is. i live in a house here in columbus with 4 other guys all of which WANT a rematch with michigan "because it would be the biggest game ever and it would be so totally awesome to beat michigan in a national championship game". well thats all fine and dandy but as a huge buckeye fan and a person of some intelligence in the college football having a rematch with michigan would be about the worst thing that could possibly happen for ohio state and college football. here are my reasons:

1: lets all face it michigan is most likely the second best team in the nation at the moment and the BCS is supposed to set up #1 vs #2. however in this scenario this game is played at the end of the year as the last game of the season for both teams so neither team is progressing or improving AND there is no way for the other team to show this to EARN the right to play ohio state for the natl championship.

2: ohio state outgained michigan by more than 100 total yards and gave away 3 turnovers and osu came within inches of getting 2 from michigan yet osu still won. the media will play a blind eye to this UNTIL the rematch is over and osu would win and then they would go on a stir of how michigan should not have been the team to play in the game because of these previous game stats.

3: if there is a rematch and michigan wins then whoop dee doo they won and we live in shame but we also beat them for a big ten championship so we are equal? mass confusion erupts and the season for the year ends at 1-1 considering they were back to back games.

4: if ohio state wins again nobody in the nation will see ohio state as legit champions considering they are playing a team they JUST beat. most of the college football world will see it as a paper championship handed to them in unfairness especially those from USC, Florida, Arkansas, and ND which have just a little bit of a fan following.

LAST and certainly not least...this is THE OHIO STATE-MICHIGAN GAME we are speaking of. a yearly rivalry defined by the fact that in many cases everything to be won and lost in this game which is precisely why it is a such a heated rivalry. this past "game of the century" would be all but forgotten and essentially meaningless if they replayed the same game the very next game and from there on out the ohio state-michigan game would become more watered down and more of a lesser rivalry with less at stake to the teams and nation. i dunno about you guys but that is one thing i would never want to see as an ohio state or college football fan.

 

[HailToMichigan]

How is it possibly a lose-lose for UM? If they win, they are awarded a title (at least partial) while only winning one of two. If they lose, they merely reinforce what already happened (and was lost during that game).

OSU has nothing to gain by beating UM. The bragging rights for JT, Troy, beating English's reborn team, beating Carr's best team vs JT, etc. are already in place from last saturday. Even if OSU beats UM again, the title will lose some credibility with non-big ten fans. They'll call the rematch a waste and OSU was lucky to avoid USC in the title game.

How could it not be lose-lose? If we lose, it's two losses in one season to Ohio State. No Michigan fan can stomach that. If we win, do you honestly think that people would call it a legit title? OSU won one, Michigan won one. Just that Michigan was lucky enough to win the right one. And then there'd be the argument that in order to win the title, OSU had to beat Michigan twice while Michigan only had to win once. Nobody would respect the title. At least with the '97 championship, most people understand that Michigan was the better team than Nebraska that year and that there should have been no split. (Side note: 1997 is why the BCS was created - so that we wouldn't have two teams who dammit, ought to play for the title, playing instead in separate bowls and leaving it to the pollsters. Not entirely to prevent rematches.)

Everyone on this board would be hollering "unfair" if Michigan won a rematch and hoisted a trophy, and few across the country would recognize anything more than a split. I would only want a rematch if a rubber game was played in the event of a Michigan win. Otherwise, it'd be the kind of championship I don't want, and I'd never live down.

 

[Oh8ch]

Another point I haven't seen made, and one of my reasons for opposing the rematch, is that the winning team is at a psychological disadvantage IMO.

Both teams went into the game hungry, trying to prove something. That hunger was their motivation. When we won we had satisfied that hunger and could sit back and enjoy it. Michigan was hungrier than ever.

How does OSU reach back and recreate that motivation?

1996 FSU beats Florida (their biggest rival) 24 to 21. In their next game a month later they lose to Florida 52 to 20.

Last year McKinley beat Massillon (their biggest rival) 38-8. Three weeks later they get them in the playoffs and lose 21-3.

Rematches SUCK.

 

[Jeffcat]

Another point I haven't seen made, and one of my reasons for opposing the rematch, is that the winning team is at a psychological disadvantage IMO.

Both teams went into the game hungry, trying to prove something. That hunger was their motivation. When we won we had satisfied that hunger and could sit back and enjoy it. Michigan was hungrier than ever.

How does OSU reach back and recreate that motivation?

1996 FSU beats Florida (their biggest rival) 24 to 21. In their next game a month later they lose to FSU 52 to 20.

Last year McKinley beat Massillon (their biggest rival) 38-8. Three weeks later they get them in the playoffs and lose 21-3.

Rematches SUCK.

well i like rematches but not ones that JUST happened especially the ohio state-michigan game. if texas would have ran the table and improved then i would say they would have a worthy statement at a rematch since the game was played early in the season.

 

[OHIOBUCK]

I hear you man, he's a dork . . . "They're Defense really isn't all that great"
On the other hand though, it kinda fired me up enough to wanna rematch them