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ttun Shenanigans, Arguments, and Emasculated Cucks (2019 thread)

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You could point to myriad reasons for it:

Lou Holtz knew that to be successful at Notre Dame, he had to recruit Ohio.

Bo Schembechler, Gary Moeller, and Lloyd Carr knew that to be successful at Michigan, they had to recruit Ohio.

Nick Saban knew that to be successful at Michigan State, he had to recruit Ohio.

The Big Ten, in the 90s, was top to bottom the most balanced conference in the country; like the SEC became in the 00s. From 1990 to 2000, every Big Ten team won or shared a conference title aside from Indiana and Minnesota -- and even they were not always easy wins.

The 85 scholarship limit, the explosion of cable TV, the removal of NCAA limits on teams' TV appearances, and the willingness of the MAC to put any game on any network on any day and in any time slot prevented Ohio State from packing their practice squad with 3* talent. Why ride the pine at Ohio State when you could start at Toledo or Miami OH and still be on TV?

But yeah, if there's a singular reason, it's because Coop choked in big games. There's a reason Tressel is deified for his, "In 310 days..." speech. JT was immediately a legend eight months before coaching his first game. Then he backed it up.
 
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NFBuck said:
They recruited very, very well, and got many elite players from Ohio (Desmond Howard, Charles Woodson at the front of the line) out from under Cooper's nose. Coop brought the "national" recruiting approach to tOSU that is still strong today, but he did it at the detriment of his own in-state recruiting...and he paid for it. Tressel came in and immediately made it a priority to lock-down Ohio, and get the best Ohio kids in Columbus. His focus on Ohio along with the continued "national" strategy is part of what swung the rivalry.

Another interesting Cooper story involves Ben Roethlisberger. Apparently, Coop couldn't ever get his name right and wanted to make him a Tight End. Needless to say, he didn't end up in Columbus.
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So it stands to reason that if Harbaugh wanted to improve his chances (chances, not outcomes), he would be wise to pull out efforts to recruit Florida, California and Europe and maybe focus on Cleveland and Toledo?
 
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BigWoof31 said:
But my mind is boggled at the thought of Michigan winning 12 of 16 from 1985-2000 (LOL 1993 tie)
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coop%20wide.jpg


It's real simple

John fucking Cooper couldn't win a rivalry game to save his otherwise useless Tennessee hillbilly slackjawed simpleton sister fucking life

0-2-1 vs Arizona while at ASU
2-10-1 vs tsun at OSU
5-9 career in Bowl games (3-8 at OSU)
 
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BigWoof31 said:
Asking a general questions for some analysis, simply because I didn't grow up in the rivalry like you all did.

Was Michigan recruiting at an incredible level back in the late 80's and early 90's?
Obviously this was well before 247 and Rivals started handing out stars for elite talent. But my mind is boggled at the thought of Michigan winning 12 of 16 from 1985-2000 (LOL 1993 tie)
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Michigan had high level, but not incredible level (e.g., FSU or Miami of the era) talent, but they did pull a couple of key difference makers from us in Desmond Howard and especially Charles Woodson. As others have stated, Cooper was a choker (and remarkably unlucky), but he also wasn't a fiery passionate guy generally, wasn't of Ohio, didn't really understand the culture of Ohio or Ohio State, and couldn't instill the kind of family atmosphere that Tressel did or brotherhood that Meyer did that makes your players go the extra mile for each other. While I can't read his mind, I very much think that the Ohio State job was just a job to him, not a calling like it was for Tressel and Meyer, and his teams largely reflected that mercenary attitude (look at the Jackson quote above: Would any Tressel or Meyer player ever use "we worked too hard" as an excuse for failure or, for that matter, make any excuse at all?). That said, Cooper also inherited a regional program recruiting from a declining Midwestern talent base that was stuck in the past and memories of Coach Hayes, which slowed him down for several years, and he eventually made Ohio State nationally relevant again (although he couldn't quite finish the job with an NC) and he deserves credit for that.

Moving on from Cooper. I think that the other big factors in OSU's failures in the GAME back then were that UM generally had the better QB (or at least the better coached QB), they were generally deeper than OSU in roster-wide talent (although often lighter on star power), they were much more hard nosed, mentally tough, and disciplined then as compared to today (and to a lesser degree as compared to Cooper's teams), and they never, ever, ever got called for offensive holding in the game, no matter how blatant.
 
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BigWoof31 said:
So it stands to reason that if Harbaugh wanted to improve his chances (chances, not outcomes), he would be wise to pull out efforts to recruit Florida, California and Europe and maybe focus on Cleveland and Toledo?
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I don't think it's a matter of "not trying." I think they ARE trying to recruit Ohio, just not with the success Bo, Moeller, Carr had. *ichigan's best teams have been heavy on Ohio kids. That has just fallen off a cliff since the DickRod days. As a whole, harbrau's recruiting has not been at the level they all anticipated when he was hired. I think the DFBIA expected him to be a juggernaut, what with the NFL success and "rock star" rep. Hasn't happened. If you look at his classes, he isn't near an elite-level. He's had some highly rated classes, but those have been based largely on quantity, not quality...and they've had way more high profile "misses" than "hits" in head-to-head battles for blue-chip kids.
 
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NFBuck said:
Another interesting Cooper story involves Ben Roethlisberger. Apparently, Coop couldn't ever get his name right and wanted to make him a Tight End. Needless to say, he didn't end up in Columbus.
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buckeyebri said:
Flip note is that Cooper wasn’t the only major coach who wanted Ben as a TE. That is why he ended up at Miami.
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From what I understood, Roethlesberger WAS a tight end in high school. Or maybe a receiver. The coach's son was the quarterback. Going into his senior year, the coach's son graduated, and Big Ben was going to be the starter. So going into these football camps at different locations, he said he was a quarterback. The first stop was at Miami. Or, at least, Miami coach saw him first, gave him and offer, and he took it as soon as he could.
 
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BigWoof31 said:
So it stands to reason that if Harbaugh wanted to improve his chances (chances, not outcomes), he would be wise to pull out efforts to recruit Florida, California and Europe and maybe focus on Cleveland and Toledo?
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Perhaps. I think he had a decent approach in his first full recruiting class... he pulled a ton of talent out of NJ. But media hype only goes so far -- even as it continues to this day unabated, the recruiting boost fades if there's no results.
Adding Rutgers and Maryland did nothing for the win/loss record or perceived stature of the Big Ten... but that's not why they were added. There's a lot of quality HS talent brought under the B1G umbrella in NJ and MD, with bleedover into the rest of North East and VA.
Everyone goes mining in CA, TX, and FL... and for good reason... but competition is basically every P5 school plus local Mid Majors (USC, UCF, Houston have had some local recruiting successes in recent years).
Ohio State arguably got more out of Georgia circa '14 championship than other national spots. More recently Arizona and Missouri seem to be places Buckeye coaches are finding themselves.
 
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buckeyebri said:
I recall reading that Cooper pissed off a lot of the Ohio High School coaches during his tenure.

Flip note is that Cooper wasn’t the only major coach who wanted Ben as a TE. That is why he ended up at Miami.
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I think you're mistaking Coop with Earl and the basketball coach, both of whom publicly bad mouthed kids from Cincinnati resulting in talent going to Michigan and Notre Dame for football and staying home for basketball. One of the first things Cooper did as coach was to spend time mending faces with GCL, Princeton, and Colerain coaches resulting in the current "Ohio State first" recruiting situation.
 
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Zurp said:
From what I understood, Roethlesberger WAS a tight end in high school. Or maybe a receiver. The coach's son was the quarterback. Going into his senior year, the coach's son graduated, and Big Ben was going to be the starter. So going into these football camps at different locations, he said he was a quarterback. The first stop was at Miami. Or, at least, Miami coach saw him first, gave him and offer, and he took it as soon as he could.
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Yep, Ben played QB behind the son of the Findley coach. When junior graduated Ben became the starter and had a great year, but it was only one year.
 
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