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What would you do if you were the GM of the Reds?

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Buckeyedynasty

I'd hit it!
Let me start out by saying that I am at best a casual baseball fan and know very little about the finer details of the game. Having said that I still root for the Reds and am very disappointed with the way they have been playing this season/past few seasons. Because I don't know a hell of a lot about the details of the game I want to pose this question to more knowledgable BP'ers. What would you do as GM to make the redlegs a more competitive team? Just wondering what other posters thoughts are reguarding the team and how they can turn things around.

As for me some things that I would like to see happen is the reds trade dunn AKA-The Strikeout King. Don't get me wrong he is a nice guy and all but he strikes out too damn much and he can't play defense to save himself. At least make him a first basmen because he isn't an outfielder in my opinion. I still think Griffey is a better hitter, can damn near match Dunn for power, and until they put him in a coffin is still a better defensive player. If they traded Dunn could they get a decent pitcher for him or maybe 2? I like Harang and Arroyo as starting pitchers but the rest I'm not thrilled about. Especially Milton who has been the biggest waste of money I can remember. As far as the Bullpen I would be fine if they set the whole group on fire and burned it to the ground...they are worthless.

Please add your thoughts and enlighten me. I know many of you know much more about baseball/reds and can offer a better solution to address the team needs. Like I said I am a Reds fan but like any normal fan I am tired of watching them stink it up. I hope they turn things around soon. GO RED LEGS!
 
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If you took over today, you are realy stuck.

Your have a ML system that is showing some signs but overall is very thin. This is job #1, have a deep and productive farm system. Its the only way a small market MLB team can compete.

How do you stock it? The draft and trading away good MLB players for prospects. Who are the only good MLB players that can probably fetch a nice haul or prospects? Harang, Arroyo and Dunn.

WK just signed the 2 pitchers for 4 more years each. Their contracts are pretty decent so they wouldn't be hard to trade. Dunn should be traded imo but not because of strikeouts(don't even get me started) but rather if you LTC him he'll be eating up nearly 20% of the clubs payroll for the next 5-7 years. You simply can't have that happening unless its a stud front line pitcher.

The rest of the MLB roster has some parts that could be moved but none will fetch a top of the line prospect.

So how do you stock the minors and put a competative baseball team on the field in Cincy at the same time? Simple answer is you can't and untill the braintrust figures that out and stops trying to do so we're never going to be worth a damn.

I personally wouldn't stop short of trading Dunn, I'd send Harang and Arroyo out as well. The return obviously would have to be a substantial package of near MLB ready top shelf prospects.

After that I launch a comprehensive PR campaign for the fans and explain to them that we had to do it to be competative in the future, we weren't getting anywhere the other way.

Once I have my farm system stocked and a bad but young MLB team, I fire Narron and find a manager who understands how to develop and maximize young players.

I continue to hopefully draft well and anytime one of my young players gets really good and is about to become really expensive I trade him for more prospects.

Lather, rinse, repeat.
 
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What Jaxbuck said is really the heart of the issue.

Do you plan for tomorrow (casting today to the winds). Build for the rest of the season (and maybe a little bit of the future) - or is there a plan C?

JaxBuck's plan fits firmly into the future only. Personally I'd like to see them give a better shot at today, while building for tomorrow. So how might you do that?

Well, Jax suggests trading Dunn, and also pitchers Harang and Arroyo. Fine - but isn't one of the key problems that they are not likely to get full value out of Dunn in a trade today? Who really wants to pay top dollar for a player with a SO to HR ratio nearing 60:10? Who really wants a power hitter at top dollar who has an AB to SO ratio of 5:2? Not to mention a power hitter who cannot power hit to drive in runs - whose situational hitting is in a word nowhere.

So, how can I have my cake and eat it too? What Dunn (and the Reds, and Jaxbuck's plan) need is to be back in the first few weeks of the season. Dunn was then hitting, not simply stroking for the fences. He has lost his focus, we need to get him back on track.

I suggest hypnotism. Let Dunn build his resume of future great situational hitting while mesmerized.
If that doesn't bring immediate improvement then maybe an altar to JoBu in Dunn's locker will help.
jobu2.jpg

Either way, you have to get the maximum value out of Dunn.

Dealing Harang and Arroyo does not make as much sense to me though, except as a kind of scorched earth policy. It isn't as if they are the ones playing badly, far from it. Pitching weaknesses exist on the Reds but they are most firmly set in the bullpen, where closing is a term only used to describe the player's real estate deals. Plus, it is arguable that what you really need is another live arm to start the games - Homer Bailey anybody?

I do agree that player development is severely lacking. That strike covers the draft plus both the Minors and the main roster IMO.

I also agree that a manager with an understanding of the lofty goals to which older Reds fans aspire would really help. The present management doesn't seem to have a clue on that score. In that vein I see that on July 28th they will be retiring number 13, the jersey worn by the least ballyhooed but steadiest member of the Big Red Machine - Dave Concepcion.

How about making that July 28th ceremony a watershed in Reds history and bring Dave back into the fold full time? He at least knows what good looks like.
 
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Jaxbuck;845383; said:
Once I have my farm system stocked and a bad but young MLB team, I fire Narron and find a manager who understands how to develop and maximize young players.
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I would be on the horn yesterday to Joe Girardi. What he did with the Marlins last year was nothing short of astonishing. He only lost his job because he wouldn't bow down to an egotistical owner...that earned my respect.
 
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NFBuck;845407; said:
I would be on the horn yesterday to Joe Girardi. What he did with the Marlins last year was nothing short of astonishing. He only lost his job because he wouldn't bow down to an egotistical owner...that earned my respect.
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That is a suggestion worthy of a pint of Guinness.:beer:
 
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sandgk;845410; said:
That is a suggestion worthy of a pint of Guinness.:beer:
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I was pimping him over at RZ but a guy who knows the marlins a lt better than I do had some things to say that turned me off a bit.

Who knows? I think its pretty clear this team doesn't respond well to JN but overall no manager can win with the absolute dreck WK has assembled this year.

On my "fix the Reds" list narron is actually not in the top 5.
 
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I maybe in the optimistic minority here, but I don't see us as being that far from competeing...I understand that we need some different pieces, a new attitude all together and some luck, but here is what I see...

Let me first start by looking at each area of the team, with the guys at the big club and in the minors...

At the major league level I think we have had a decent 1-4 starting rotation...Harang is a cy young candiadte IMO, Arroyo has thrown great, just without run support...Lohse has his troubles at times and if we could deal him for something I am for it...Belisle is a young arm and I think he has good stuff to be a productive starter behind the two above and Bailey on down the road.

I see about 8-9 arms that with in the next 1-3/4 years that could be semi succesful to very successful in the majors...These guys would be Livingston, Dumatrait, Bailey, Fisher, Thompson, Cueto, Watson, Webb and then there are a couple of other guys...

Overall Bailey has the makings of a number 1 and we already have a good #1 and #2 so that would give us a great top 3 and with the guys above and with Belisle we have the makings for a very good rotation with the ability to keep their combined era under 4. We can win a lot of games if they can do that...Also if we ever make it to the playoffs Starting pitching is the best way to win and with a top 3 that we will have should lead us to maybe beat some teams that have a better overall team than us.

Now lets take a look at the pen...

This has been a huge problem...We have some decent arms, but we don't have that guy that shortens the game, or better yet 2 guys like some teams are able to have...

The thing is we have the only guys that we could afford being a small market...Weathers is a decent bullpen guy, but he is a 7th inning guy, not a 9th or 8th...Coffey has really struggled I think b/c they send him out there too much, and he is still young and still needs work...Stanton has pitched decent lately, he has some decent stuff to be a lefty specialist, but I just don't see it being here, with coutlangus being a cheap guy and being young and showing some ability and also Bray when he gets back from injury and he is very young as well...We also have Guardado who could be the closer for a couple years and help us or if the value is there we could send him somewhere for some prospects to a contender...

We also have Burton, Salmon, McBeth, with the first 2 being power guys, and McBeth having a nice fastball and great offspeed stuff...We also have Majew who has some good stuff and he ever returns to form that he was before the trade we have another solid arm...

In the minors we have basically taken all the guys from AAA, we have Medlock, Roenicke, Pelland, Mateo and a couple other guys that have been showing some solid stuff in the minors...You could also have some of the starters mentioned above move to the pen, especially with the depth of the starters we have...We could also trade some of these arms.


So from the lefthand side I think that Bray and Coutlangus can get the job done and they are very young and cheap and will be around for awihle...Some power guys with Burton, Coffey, and Salmon, then some middle power with good offspeed stuff in Majew, McBeth...If we could get any of these guys to develop into a stopper in the back, and another guy to set up with the two lefty specialists we should be setting good with a pen...We might also keep Weathers just for some vet leadership and teaching to the young guys...So the potential is there, just got to get guys back from injury...

Catcher - I think this is really a position that is killing us...Ross had a good half year last year, but has really fallen off, he has some pop, but just looks lost up there...Moeller is not the answer and neither is Javy...Javy is a solid pinch hitter, but that is it...But the first 2 guys have good Defense, and as long as you are getting defense out of your catcher it is hard to complain, but it is always nice to have an offensive catcher...Also in the minors we have no one...

1B - Hatte and Conine have been a solid RL combo, but they are up there in years and just guys holding down the spot till Votto is ready, either by the end of this year or at the beginning of next year...He struggled early in the season, but he is hitting close to .400 for the month of may and many say it was just bad luck that hurt his number in April and now those line drives he was hitting are falling in for hits...We really don't have much else behind Votto at the time, but Votto should be a cog for at least 3-4 years b4 he would become expensive, and hopefully we will have some depth in the minors by that time...Votto is very good, and I am looking forward to his arrival to the big club...

2B - We have Phillips at the majors and he was a really good pickup by WK...The only problem with him is that Narron trys to fit him into spots in the lineup, being our only guy that can hit from the right side, that he shouldn't being hitting in...Like cleanup 2 hole or even the 3 hold at times...Phillips would be a very good 6 hold hitter for this team...He has broken out of his early season hitting streak and has hit in 19 straight games now and is looking good...

As for the minors we have some solid prospects that could figure into the equation at 2b in the future...Those being Valaikia who is a great hitter, plays SS, but will probably be a 2b...He sohuld be ready by the time that Phillips is too pricey...Also we have Turner in Dayton as well that is a very solid prospect...

SS - I am not really a fan of Gonzo, I like some of the plays that he makes, but he has made more errors than a defensive SS should make...Also his bat has come back down to earth...I don't think that he is holding the team back, and hopefully his D will come around, and we really don't have much in terms of SS in the minors besides Janish, but he also struggles soem with the bat...

3B - EE is a stud...I still don't know why he isnt up here...he is hitting .390 in his trip to Louisville, whatever Narron's problem with ihm is he needs to get over it...EE was just starting to get hot with the bat when he got sent down and our lineup would of been really strong with him in there with the DH rule this weekend, but he was busy beating the shit out of the ball in Louisville...He has about 3 doubles off the wall and 2 homers in his short stint down there...THe only problem is his D, but he continues to work on it, and he has some nice range and makes some good plays, he just needs work on his throwing...

We have a kid blowing up in Dayton, that is only 19 in Francisco, he has bad plate discipline, but he his a solid prospect with solid power and solid defense, but he is only 19 and should develop nicely...

As for the outfield, we are pretty stacked...We have Dunn, Griffey, and Hamilton out there for everyday guys...Then we have Freel and Hopper who are very good backups...In the minors we have some decent guys for backup role players like Dickerson, but the main guy is Jay Bruce...This kid has stud written all over him, some even say that he has passed Bailey as the overall number 1 guy in the system...He is a great hitter and is doing things at 20 that not many other 20 year olds have done at his age...He should be up here by middle of next season, and he allows us to trade Dunn or Griffey and get some prospects in return...We also have Stubbs who was our #1 pick last year and he has been solid in Dayton this year, and looks to be progressing pretty well...


So overall I think other than Catcher, SS, and the pen we have the makings of a solid organization, but some of our depth is still in the young stages of their career either in the A ball and a year or two away from gettig here, or they are just starting major league carrers and are going to take their lumps...If we can develop these guys the rest of this season and on, we are set up to contend IMO...No reason for a big fire sale...I would dump the vetrans, like Conine, Hatte, Gonzalez, Dunn, Griff, Weather, Santos, Stanton if we could get some people in return or the guys behind them are ready to go...But I don't think we are that far away from competeing, and if we can continue to draft like we did last year we are going to be solid for years to come...I also think we have started to turn around a little this season, but the baseball gods just havent been on our side just yet...

I still think the biggest problem overall is attitude on this team and we need a new manager, that can manage some young talent and knows how to manage a team and fill out a lineup card and use the bullpen...
 
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Finally some responses. Thank you all for posting I've been wondering if my thread was invisible or I was way out of line for posting my thoughts. :lol: Keep them coming guys I like hearing everyones ideas on how to get this thing turned around.
 
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Buckeyedynasty;845528; said:
Finally some responses. Thank you all for posting I've been wondering if my thread was invisible or I was way out of line for posting my thoughts. :lol: Keep them coming guys I like hearing everyones ideas on how to get this thing turned around.
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Buckeyedynasty - the only thing that has been invisible for a great length of time has been a plan from the Reds. This is a great thread IMO and hopefully there are at least one or two good ideas that filter into the shell-like of someone with influence.
 
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CB40- I agree with what you had to say about most of those names(minors) but your not allowing for any of them to be a bust. Either due to injury or inability to make the jump, some of them just aren't going to make it.

You have to have the organizational depth to overcome that and right now the ONLY glimmer of hope(which you stated perfectly) involves an absolute ass load of luck, ie all of them making it and making an impact.

There is a big difference between a plan and a wish and from what I can see WK's plan is too heavy on the latter. "Dumpster dive till the kids arrive" is bad enough. "Dumpster dive untill the kids arrive and every swinging dick one of them makes it as an above average MLB player at worst" is like funding the kids college with projected lottery winnings.
 
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