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Big Ten and other Conference Expansion

Discussion in 'College Football' started by Mike80, Jul 26, 2007.


Which Teams Should the Big Ten Add? (please limit to four selections)

  1. Boston College

    29 vote(s)
  2. Cincinnati

    17 vote(s)
  3. Connecticut

    6 vote(s)
  4. Duke

    17 vote(s)
  5. Georgia Tech

    50 vote(s)
  6. Kansas

    43 vote(s)
  7. Maryland

    66 vote(s)
  8. Missouri

    91 vote(s)
  9. North Carolina

    27 vote(s)
  10. Notre Dame

    195 vote(s)
  11. Oklahoma

    72 vote(s)
  12. Pittsburgh

    41 vote(s)
  13. Rutgers

    38 vote(s)
  14. Syracuse

    17 vote(s)
  15. Texas

    118 vote(s)
  16. Vanderbilt

    13 vote(s)
  17. Virginia

    38 vote(s)
  18. Virginia Tech

    58 vote(s)
  19. Stay at 12 teams and don't expand

    24 vote(s)
  20. Add some other school(s) not listed

    14 vote(s)
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. zincfinger

    zincfinger Gert Frobe-approved

    Baney, I agree with you on your points about the CIC being overblown, and that the effects of conference expansion on research funding are largely mythological. And, while I don't know how important AAU membership is to the current BigTen presidents, I do think its importance is really only one of prestige, not of anything practical or tangible.

    That said, there is one difference between adding Nebraska vs. hypothetically adding FSU. Nebraska was always a very good geographic and cultural fit with the traditional BigTen. FSU is neither. Maybe CFB is moving into an era when those things don't matter. But I could see those factors making a school like FSU one of minimal interest for the BigTen.
  2. Steve19

    Steve19 Bucks, Boks, Bucs, and Lions rugby Staff Member

    Here are some thoughts.

    1. It's a LOT easier to turn around a football program than it is to build a high-level research culture at a low performing university.
    2. Athletic departments have structure. You hire an AD, the AD hires coaches, the coaches hire assistants, and the players do their thing. Throughout the structure, people report to people. People can be instructed to do things.
    3. A research culture can take years to develop. Faculty do the research that interests them or for which they have funding. They have to negotiate peer-review networks, who assess whether their research makes original and important contributions. A major thrust of academic research in recent years has been the need to collaborate with other very bright people, who are conducting such research with success.
    Personally, I am working with (or can think of people I'd like to work with) at every B1G university, Rutgers, Maryland, several ACC schools and just about every CIC member. One of my colleagues was just at Nebraska. I can't think of anyone that I'd like to work with at Florida State.

    If I were a CIC school, I'd be looking at their modest research budgets, low ability to contribute, and other liabilities when I was asked to have them hanging around trying to enter my research projects and live off my funding.

    Athletics are a very, very small part of what universities do. Fans make the mistake of seeing that differently, faculty and administrators who determine policy and budgets do not.
    muffler dragon likes this.
  3. JBaney45

    JBaney45 Junior

    I definitely see where you are coming from with that, personally I would have liked to keep that midwestern culture as a driving factor when it came to adding more schools. It just seems like that got thrown out when we brought Rutgers and Maryland on board and the rest of the countries moves seem to be forcing our hand.
  4. zincfinger

    zincfinger Gert Frobe-approved

    Perhaps it depends on your field of study, but there are excellent researchers at FSU. We collaborated with one when I was at OSU, and the guy's top of his field. Maybe they're not as numerous as at some of the higher rated research schools, but it's not as if people are down there rubbing sticks together, trying to invoke the magic light spirit.

    But you're right that research funding revolves around the individual lab, moreso than around the University. As such, no one is poaching on your research dollars unless you choose to collaborate with him, CIC or not.

    And I'm not sure the key to success is all that different. If you want a top-flight football program, and you have reasonable resources, you have to spend the money to hire a top-flight coach with a track record of success. Similarly, if you want top-flight research programs, and you have reasonable resources, you have to spend the money to hire top-flight research professors with a track record of success. I agree that it's less centralized, however.
  5. Woody1968

    Woody1968 Agent Provocateur

    Florida State does have Jim Morrison as an alum.
    Buckeye doc likes this.
  6. ChallengeMe

    ChallengeMe Newbie

    Why is Florida State even being considered for B1G? Or being compared to Nebraska?

    The Huskers have sold out their 86000 seat stadium for decades. FSU sold out TWO games (Clemson and Florida) this year. The other five games each had over 10,000 empty seats. And this for a top notch program. Florida State is NOT Nebraska.

    I can see GT in the B1G; Atlanta being the capital of the south, still has a northern presence with hundreds of thousands of workers from the north (ie: B1G alumni) in the Atlanta area. Tallahassee is pure southern culture. How long before they get fed up with playing northern schools and split? They could never form a rival with a B1G team.

    And FSU does not cover the state of Florida (as UF does) they cover the northern panhandle, with no large metro areas. The only B1G alumni in that area are old retirees.The BTN wouldn't pay off there.
  7. bassbuckeye07

    bassbuckeye07 Junior

    They are a land grant school with 32,000 enrolled and I'm pretty sure their alum go to work in....Orlando, Jacksonville, Miami etc

    and then there is this

    Boooooom! research that
  8. redguard117

    redguard117 Senior

    So by adding FSU we would lock up the old New York retiree market in Florida? By my estimate that gives us nearly half of the Florida population - SOLD!
  9. JBaney45

    JBaney45 Junior

    How many empty seats at Rutgers and Maryland? FSU is not quite Nebraska sure but they are the best football option left on the board aside from the Domers.

    Isn't the Big Ten's ploy to force entire states into carrying the Big Ten network? Maybe I'm dense but if Rutgers and Maryland are going to guarantee us NYC and DC then why can't FSU deliver Florida? All those old retirees from the midwest can push the cable companies into carrying the BTN :).

    I do agree that from FSU's perspective it would be awkward, no natural rivalries etc, that is kind of their call to make whether they would rather go up north to the Big Ten or out west to the Big 12, obvious pros and cons to both.
  10. JBaney45

    JBaney45 Junior

    I'm afraid to google "Spanx apparel line" at work but it sounds promising
  11. Mike80

    Mike80 Pretentious Dickhole

    This is NOT about football. It never has been. Sure it's been about TV sets to a certain extent, but with the shifting landscape in academics as well as athletics, the Big Ten Presidents are going to go for their best fit on the academic side first.

    That leaves FSU out, and FSU isn't exactly a great option for football anyway.
  12. jlb1705

    jlb1705 Undefeated in 2015 Staff Member Bookie

    It's not.

    They're girdles.
  13. bassbuckeye07

    bassbuckeye07 Junior

    Come on, how is this not about football?....they are called athletic conferences not academic conferences and before you start in about the CIC and all that..... how much research money does that really bring in as a percentage for a University like Ohio State<

    not much...lets stop acting like this is some attempt to take over the world as a research consortium

    Its about TV and football...the CIC advantages are a byproduct
  14. JBaney45

    JBaney45 Junior

    I have to stop and point out here that the CIC doesn't actively go out and solicit research money. When they report that their member schools brought in such and such amount of dollars, that was done by each individual school on its own and then added up.

    Academics are obviously the #1 mission of a university, nobody is debating that. However we are talking about an athletic conference..to ignore the need to improve our athletic brand namely on the football field is losing the plot.
  15. Mike80

    Mike80 Pretentious Dickhole

    If it were about football only they would have taken Oklahoma, Texas, Oklahoma State and KState along with Nebraska, but they didn't.

    But keep on kidding yourselves guys. You all are playing checkers while Delaney and the Big Ten Presidents are playing Chess.

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