2017 tOSU Offense Discussion

[bukIpower]

probably a little bit of both



pretty comparable to JT's numbers in four of the last five games, sans rushing stats. JT never fumbles. I'll give him that.

For "fun's" sake, I had a peek at the PSU and Northwestern numbers from last year. Yikes. 43 and 44 pass attempts respectively. No wonder.



I'm not saying he will be better. I'm saying he can't be much worse.

The whole thing really boils down to this outlandish commitment to being a great passing team. Not that there is anything wrong with wanting to be a great passing team, but the approach is all wrong.

The strength of the offense is in the oline and the backs, so develop the passing game OUT of the running game, not as a separate entity. You can't just be like, "okay, we're gonna throw now, because we want to be balanced." It just doesn't work. Everybody and their mother sees it coming.

I see Wilson trying. He's got bubble concepts built into the run game. It hasn't been executed very well, but it's there. The first series against Indiana had it working. The wheel route was great to see.

But the next four series was back to "Okay, line up in the running formation and run it. Now line up in the passing formation and pass it." I don't think that's Wilson making that call.

They've got to get their identity back. Be the power spread rushing team that you are. Stay on schedule running the ball, and you won't have to go looking for the passing game. It will come right to you.

Edit: and ditch the empty sets. They aren't fooling anyone.

Yes all of this... I personally feel that JT can be successful in this offense as we've seen in the past but he must be used the correct way. As LV pointed out we can't be so "ok run now" or "ok throw now" it should be done as a unit which I believe Wilson at least realizes because of his "it was disjointed" comment.

That's been our offense for the past 3 years a disjointed, predictable, and ill-advised mess. If we want to be so blatant about throwing the ball then put Haskins in because he's the more elite throwing QB that we have but if we want our identity to be run the ball, run the ball, and then play action then JT is the guy. Which again the coaches realize with comments about finding their identity and the such goes.

I'm amazed though at just how rotted this thing is at its core because these coaches are obviously very talented and very smart. We should understand we have 2 of the top 3 backs in the big ten, 4 big bodied WR's in Campbell/Victor/Mack/Baugh, and a QB that is great at read option. So why can most of the public see our identity is to run the ball 70% of the time and then incorporate the passing attack through the run game?

I will not be sad if we just do away with the formation that starts 4 wide and ends 5 wide when we motion our back out of the backfield. It's so predictable being that it'll be a QB draw (particularly if we motion a TE into the backfield) or some kind of throw into the flat. The only time we should be running a 5 wide formation (btw lets do it with 5 wide outs if we are going to motion JK out) is on a 3rd and 10+ yards.

coaches just need to answer one question... do we want to be a power running football team? If that answer is yes which I assume it is then stick with JT Barrett and be opportunistic throwing the football out of running formations.

 

[Hstead]

The only problem with all of that is this. As long as JT is at QB, teams are going to load the box and make us one demensional. They are going to sell out on the run , and they are going to force a keep on the read option.

That is the EXACT recipe we are watching. You can't just keeping running the ball into a loaded box. You will beat the sisters of the poor, Purdue, and the school for the blind, but you will get your ass handed to you by Clemson and OU.

JT is beating anyone with his arm. Let me rephrase, JT isn't beating anyone worth a rug with his arm. Indiana damn near beat us, for a half anyway until our speed took a couple short ones to the house.

We know what we have in JT and it's not just one game. I'm for finding out what we have on the bench because it can't be worse. Can't be.

 

[bukIpower]

The only problem with all of that is this. As long as JT is at QB, teams are going to load the box and make us one demensional. They are going to sell out on the run , and they are going to force a keep on the read option.

That is the EXACT recipe we are watching. You can't just keeping running the ball into a loaded box. You will beat the sisters of the poor, Purdue, and the school for the blind, but you will get your ass handed to you by Clemson and OU.

JT is beating anyone with his arm. Let me rephrase, JT isn't beating anyone worth a rug with his arm. Indiana damn near beat us, for a half anyway until our speed took a couple short ones to the house.

We know what we have in JT and it's not just one game. I'm for finding out what we have on the bench because it can't be worse. Can't be.

I agree throwing wise the back ups offer more but we aren't going to pull JT it just won't happen. So how can we help JT should be what the coaches are thinking about. No one has really every stopped us from running the ball if you think about it we've only stopped ourselves with going away from the running game.

Seriously despite teams probably loading the box can anyone think of time were we were actually shut down? How many times did we stop running the backs and let JT run draws before we fell behind too much to continue to run the ball?

 

[RugbyBuck]

It could be that Urban's been too focused on building culture, etc. which we've heard ad nauseum the last three years (not that I have anything against or disagree with building such a culture) at the expense of renewing/improving his offense. He's saying the right things about acknowledging Wilson's and Day's experience and giving them the leash to run, but I'm pretty sure that it hasn't happened yet and I'm not sure that whatever we see in the next three games really makes much difference. What matters is whether we crap the bed against State Penn. Do we go ultra-conservative again or do we let the offense rip? If there's any upside to the OU loss it's that maybe it allows us to go a little WTF? with the play calling and use the horses we've got.

 

[Buckeyeskickbuttocks]

Indiana damn near beat OSU? I thought the Buckeyes covered and had about 600 yards of Offense?

Hstead, would you trade a perfect throw to Paris Campbell that was dropped for his long catch and run? I don't know how JT could have thrown a better ball.

How about any other deep throw that JT has put on the hands of his WR but which was not caught? JT made a least 3 throws that I remember in the OU game that the WR got hands on but didn't catch. One would have been six, but the WR was distracted by a DBs hand wave. Another would have been a first and G or close to it. And, then the TD drop on 3rd and G (to Hill?), though that was the worst of the 3 throws I'm talking about.

 

[Hstead]

Indiana damn near beat OSU? I thought the Buckeyes covered and had about 600 yards of Offense?

Hstead, would you trade a perfect throw to Paris Campbell that was dropped for his long catch and run? I don't know how JT could have thrown a better ball.

How about any other deep throw that JT has put on the hands of his WR but which was not caught? JT made a least 3 throws that I remember in the OU game that the WR got hands on but didn't catch. One would have been six, but the WR was distracted by a DBs hand wave. Another would have been a first and G or close to it. And, then the TD drop on 3rd and G (to Hill?), though that was the worst of the 3 throws I'm talking about.

The first half was ugly vs IU. He did throw a good ball to Campbell and there were 3 drops in that game. But what is the excuse for having 33 yards of passing at the half vs OU. There were no drops. He only ended with 180 plus for the OU game because he got most of it on the last 2 drives where OU was letting us have everything underneath. He had 92 yards before those 2 drives. That's just abysmal. And guys were open. Anyone that watches JT that doesn't think he is holding the ball too long I don't know what to tell you. It's been happening for two plus years. He doesn't throw on time. The ball doesn't come out quick. It doesn't come out on time. It's not accurate too often and there isn't much on it.

His receivers from the past two years are in the NFL. He has ZERO chance at playing on Sunday's.

 

[Buckeyeskickbuttocks]

I guess I don't understand how taking what OU was giving is something to be critical of. And, again, you could add about 60 - 90 yards and two scores to his totals had the ones that hit hands been caught

 

[Hstead]

I guess I don't understand how taking what OU was giving is something to be critical of. And, again, you could add about 60 - 90 yards and two scores to his totals had the ones that hit hands been caught

Because the game was over, in hand for OU. They basically switched from in your face bump and run to, okay here you go prevent but you aren't scoring. They were garbage minutes. It wasn't the same defense they played the first three and a half quarters. There is a big difference. The throws weren't challenged at all. It's when throws are challenged JT can't make them. Anyone can complete dump offs underneath with no coverage because they are letting you.

 

[jwinslow]

Because the game was over, in hand for OU. They basically switched from in your face bump and run to, okay here you go prevent but you aren't scoring. They were garbage minutes.

This was not garbage time:


JT was a problem on that stalled FG drive early 3rd quarter, but he's way down the list. Oh the running game just gashed OU? Boy, I bet that almost always terrible speed option will work inside of a phone booth. Oh it didn't work? Maybe a fake horizontal jet sweep Qb run into the backside pursuit on that same short side of the field will work. No? Oh, well now it's 3rd and long and we're going to ask our inconsistent passer to carry us.

It wasn't the same defense they played the first three and a half quarters. There is a big difference. The throws weren't challenged at all. It's when throws are challenged JT can't make them. Anyone can complete dump offs underneath with no coverage because they are letting you.

I'm honestly not sure what you're talking about at this point. I understand the concept, but have no idea how this relates to BKB's comment.

 

[Hstead]

The ball in your picture to mclauren was incredibly difficult to catch because the OU defender damn near tipped it and blocked his vision of the ball. Anyone that has tried to catch a pass where you lose sight of it for an instant understands how hard that is. Could he have caught it, sure. Would it have made sports center, probably. That is no easy catch.

That's one drive stalled by some bad plays. JT has struggled way more than just one drive. Should I run down the list of poor throws? We don't have enough web space.

JT had 25 yards of passing the first half until he completed his last throw of the half. His longest completion for the entire game was 16 yards and it was a late poorly thrown ball that should have been a TD instead of Hill making a jumping catch if its throw early.

Jwins, how do you post a link to Fulton article and say he's dead on where he shows JTs failures then blame everyone but JT? Do you agree with Fulton or not?

The point I'm trying to make about garbage minute throws is that my soph daughter could complete those throws, nothing special. If OU decided to stay in their scheme JT finishes with 115 yards maybe on the pace he was going.

 

[Hstead]

The ball in your picture to mclauren was incredibly difficult to catch because the OU defender damn near tipped it and blocked his vision of the ball. Anyone that has tried to catch a pass where you lose sight of it for an instant understands how hard that is. Could he have caught it, sure. Would it have made sports center, probably. That is no easy catch.

That's one drive stalled by some bad plays. JT has struggled way more than just one drive. Should I run down the list of poor throws? We don't have enough web space.

JT had 25 yards of passing the first half until he completed his last throw of the half. His longest completion for the entire game was 16 yards and it was a late poorly thrown ball that should have been a TD instead of Hill making a jumping catch if its throw early.

Jwins, how do you post a link to Fulton article and say he's dead on where he shows JTs failures then blame everyone but JT? Do you agree with Fulton or not?

 

[Buckeyeskickbuttocks]

You're not serious are you? That ball has GOT to be caught. I don't understand how you easily dismiss that drop as a difficult catch to make without also giving credit to the QB who threw the pass in the first instance. That was a catchable ball, Hstead. When it hits your hands, you make the fucking catch, plain and simple. I mean, what the actual fuck? A WR doesn't have to make the catch because the DB contested it with a hand wave? (And I don't think it was as close to being tipped as you suggest, and in any event, WASN'T TIPPED)

 

[jwinslow]

The ball in your picture to mclauren was incredibly difficult to catch because the OU defender damn near tipped it and blocked his vision of the ball. Anyone that has tried to catch a pass where you lose sight of it for an instant understands how hard that is. Could he have caught it, sure. Would it have made sports center, probably. That is no easy catch.

No it's not, but then that's the kind of thing that a scholarship WR at OSU needs to be able to do. Frankly, they've been so bad at contested passes that it's an assumed drop every single time. Some of that is recruiting, some of it is coaching, some of it is scheme, but OSU had lots of little guys who could fight for the football under JT (Dane, Gonzo, Holmes).

p.s. Terry was misidentified by the Ohio Stadium announcer as Parris Campbell after this play. Savage and ironic.

Remember Evan Spencer? They would kill for him right now, and that includes his tendency to sometimes drop contested passes. Why? Because he's miles ahead of these guys in terms of strength and consistency as a pass catcher, let alone monsters like Thomas or Smith or steady converted athletes like Brown, Marshall or Miller.

That giant disparity in pure WR skills (and frankly the lackluster outside, large WR recruiting before Mack/Victor/Grimes/Harris) is why I hold out hope that it's recruiting based. We knew going into his recruitment that Parris had poor hands (meanwhile the scheme never gives him the ball on sweeps, we use KJ Hill for that who isn't particularly effective there and is one of the few WRs who has shown some ball skills).

JT is not an accurate passer but it's a really decent assumption that the WR will not bring in a deep ball (or jump ball) if there's a DB anywhere nearby (and too often if he doesn't actually break it up at all). That kills the chemistry and consistency between the QB and WRs, especially for a guy who is already not trusting himself for his own limitations.

That's one drive stalled by some bad plays. JT has struggled way more than just one drive. Should I run down the list of poor throws? We don't have enough web space.

JT had 25 yards of passing the first half until he completed his last throw of the half. His longest completion for the entire game was 16 yards and it was a late poorly thrown ball that should have been a TD instead of Hill making a jumping catch if its throw early.

Jwins, how do you post a link to Fulton article and say he's dead on where he shows JTs failures then blame everyone but JT? Do you agree with Fulton or not?

I agree with Fulton that it's everything (including JT) and that the deployment of JT is laughably bad.

When things break down, these WRs are quite poor at working open and are even worse at hauling it in when a jump ball is thrown. JT's bad at finding them, they're imprecise in running their routes, when a pass window is there both the QB and WR are quite poor at finishing the play.

The scheme asks a bad passing QB to be a good passing QB to setup the run.
The scheme lets the opposition pin their ears back and trades in the still powerful running game? Why? So we can get dumpoff passes to Weber or Dobbins, only if JT keeps his eyes downfield long enough to even see that?
The blocking schemes set up a poor pocket manager like JT for failure, as well as the OL (which frankly has been a lot better in pass pro).

 

[MD Buckeye]

Up tempo power run game with play action mixed in. Pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeaasssseeeeeee. Lean on the run.

 

[BuckeyeNation27]

But what is the excuse for having 33 yards of passing at the half vs OU.

The play calls. If they start calling better plays, and JT is left as the only thing holding the offense back, that'd be one thing. If I see one more gd option to the short side, I might jump out a window. So I guess I'll be watching the next several games on the first floor because we all know they're coming.....even the defense.