Personal Accountability

[muffler dragon]

Disclaimer: I probably should have placed this in the "Pet Peeves" thread, but I wanted to open up a broader discussion on the topic.

There are a number of things that have come up in these dire economic times that have made me think a lot about personal accountability. I don't mean this to be a sweeping, broad-stroke judgment of damnation nor is it a pulpit for me to soapbox.

For me, personal accountability is HUGE. I try to evaluate the impact of my decisions in varying concentric circles from myself outward. I realize that society is made up of a pendulum of different degrees in this regard. But I ask: has society always had this many people who appear to have no regard for personal accountability? Is there anything in this society that promotes or discourages personal accountability?

Anyway... if you've got a beef for/against what I've said; then share it. I would really like to just have an open philosophical discussion on the matter.

 

[t_BuckeyeScott]

Disclaimer: I probably should have placed this in the "Pet Peeves" thread, but I wanted to open up a broader discussion on the topic.

There are a number of things that have come up in these dire economic times that have made me think a lot about personal accountability. I don't mean this to be a sweeping, broad-stroke judgment of damnation nor is it a pulpit for me to soapbox.

For me, personal accountability is HUGE. I try to evaluate the impact of my decisions in varying concentric circles from myself outward. I realize that society is made up of a pendulum of different degrees in this regard. But I ask: has society always had this many people who appear to have no regard for personal accountability? Is there anything in this society that promotes or discourages personal accountability?

Anyway... if you've got a beef for/against what I've said; then share it. I would really like to just have an open philosophical discussion on the matter.

I agree. With the questions too?

 

[fourteenandoh]

i'm sick of it always being someone else's fault. if everyone would step up and do what's best for them the country would be a much better place.

 

[DaytonBuck]

I want a kitchen!

 

[Bucklion]

Yes. The problem to me is the massive victimization complex in this country. Everyone is a victim of something...prejudice, bad childhoods, socioeconomic ills, being picked on in school, not being able to go to college, ADHD, etc., etc...so they use it as an excuse for mediocrity, failure, laziness, crime, or worse. Of course, that also means everyone is a victim of something...meaning if everyone decided to be a victim and take no accountability for anything, we would live in mass anarchy.

To me it has gotten progressively worse because at least it used to seem like people would try, make an effort to succeed, and if they failed or committed a crime THEN they would play the victim card. Now, it seems more and more the people don't even bother trying...they just play the victim card to start, sit back, and wait for someone to feel sorry for them and do something about it, or else commit a crime and then say "Well, no one did anything to help me".

I believe strongly in the front end of social programs...making sure children have opportunities, schools, access to information, the ability to be what they want to be to the best of their ability...but at the back end, if you're going to sit on your ass or rob me and then blame "the system" or "the man" then please take this opportunity to fuck off.

 

[Gatorubet]

Yes. The problem to me is the massive victimization complex in this country. Everyone is a victim of something...prejudice, bad childhoods, socioeconomic ills, being picked on in school, not being able to go to college, ADHD, etc., etc...so they use it as an excuse for mediocrity, failure, laziness, crime, or worse. Of course, that also means everyone is a victim of something...meaning if everyone decided to be a victim and take no accountability for anything, we would live in mass anarchy.

To me it has gotten progressively worse because at least it used to seem like people would try, make an effort to succeed, and if they failed or committed a crime THEN they would play the victim card. Now, it seems more and more the people don't even bother trying...they just play the victim card to start, sit back, and wait for someone to feel sorry for them and do something about it, or else commit a crime and then say "Well, no one did anything to help me".

I believe strongly in the front end of social programs...making sure children have opportunities, schools, access to information, the ability to be what they want to be to the best of their ability...but at the back end, if you're going to sit on your ass or rob me and then blame "the system" or "the man" then please take this opportunity to fuck off.

While much of what you say is true, if we snatched the babies out of the cribs of the personal responsibility crowd and dropped them in homes in the hood and Appalachia, you'd get teen pregnancy humpin', welfare loving, mouth breathing social leaches in 20 years or less.

So what do we do about it other than whine that it is happening?

It took decades to hundreds of years to create the cultural environments that produce this behavior, so what is the quick fix? Personal responsibility is as much learned behavior as it is innate "character."

While it is easy to moan that a lack of personal responsibility kept most in New Orleans for Katrina, what do you do if you have no money, no car, no credit card, no way to eat once you leave home, and your disability old age pension/social security check does not come until the first of the month and they want you to flee the storm on the 28th?

Here I agree with you, but want to add that it is not so easy a fix as saying "Just do the right thing, will ya?" and shaking our head about a lack of responsible behavior when we are blessed with the upbringing, skills, example and resources to be responsible.

 

[t_BuckeyeScott]

While much of what you say is true, if we snatched the babies out of the cribs of the personal responsibility crowd and dropped them in homes in the hood and Appalachia, you'd get teen pregnancy humpin', welfare loving, mouth breathing social leaches in 20 years or less.

So what do we do about it other than whine that it is happening?

It took decades to hundreds of years to create the cultural environments that produce this behavior, so what is the quick fix? Personal responsibility is as much learned behavior as it is innate "character."

While it is easy to moan that a lack of personal responsibility kept most in New Orleans for Katrina, what do you do if you have no money, no car, no credit card, no way to eat once you leave home, and your disability old age pension/social security check does not come until the first of the month and they want you to flee the storm on the 28th?

Here I agree with you, but want to add that it is not so easy a fix as saying "Just do the right thing, will ya?" and shaking our head about a lack of responsible behavior when we are blessed with the upbringing, skills, example and resources to be responsible.

Can't say what BL's thinking, but I agree with both of ya, at the same time.

 

[Bucklion]

While much of what you say is true, if we snatched the babies out of the cribs of the personal responsibility crowd and dropped them in homes in the hood and Appalachia, you'd get teen pregnancy humpin', welfare loving, mouth breathing social leaches in 20 years or less.

So what do we do about it other than whine that it is happening?

It took decades to hundreds of years to create the cultural environments that produce this behavior, so what is the quick fix? Personal responsibility is as much learned behavior as it is innate "character."

While it is easy to moan that a lack of personal responsibility kept most in New Orleans for Katrina, what do you do if you have no money, no car, no credit card, no way to eat once you leave home, and your disability old age pension/social security check does not come until the first of the month and they want you to flee the storm on the 28th?

Here I agree with you, but want to add that it is not so easy a fix as saying "Just do the right thing, will ya?" and shaking our head about a lack of responsible behavior when we are blessed with the upbringing, skills, example and resources to be responsible.

Well, I agree with the first part, which is why I support the front end of social programs, much as Jack Kemp does. Bad people are rarely (not never, but rarely) born, they are created. Even identical twins raised in the same womb and in the same house develop different personalities, so the enviornment one is in certainly is a major mitigating factor.

As for "whining" and development of "culture", things are more nuanced in some ways, I suppose, but not in all ways. I agree that slavery, for example, took a major toll on the black community (well, ok, duh), but I hardly think it's whining to expect people to take full responsibility for their actions in many instances. For example, no "man" or "system" made the (non-minority) fucker almost kill my wife in a car accident by bending down to fuck with his CD player and taking his eyes off the road. He did that all by his own fucking self, and he's responsible for it. So fuck him, I hope he rots and burns. Just like no one forces anyone to get behind the wheel drunk. That's a choice, and lives are at stake. It's easy to say "Well, almost everyone does it sometime, so what's the big deal" but the big deal is people get killed by it. Often. Is there an easy answer? No, but cracking down on behavior that puts lives in jeopardy, instead of letting people off with a smack on the wrist 3 or 4 times because they managed not to kill someone is a good starting point.

Now, when one talks about gang violence in the hood, more factors come into play, but the bottom line is still that people, eventually, make their own choices. There are often consequences of those choices, and they often negatively affect other people, sometimes severely. When that happens, I refuse to let people off the hook. If you buy a piece and cap somebody, or get capped in the process, that's tragic for many reasons, but then again the cappers and the cappees (not to mention the community "leaders") turn around and blame white America for the fact they are still killing each other. I am all for helping improve schools, job prospects, adult re-education, etc. in poor areas. But I don't go into their neighborhoods, sell them guns, sell them drugs, or start shooting. They do that all on their own. And the only way it will stop is if the communities step up and say enough is enough amongst themselves. For example, if we as white people are expected to have responsibility to become (and have slowly become) more "enlightened" by seeing minorities as people and not minorities, not freaking out when one moves into the neighborhood, hiring them based on qualifications, and basically giving them a chance to be people like us, as we should, then they have the responsibility to police themselves, rise up and say "enough is enough", and stop thinking guns, drugs, and rims are all that matter in life. Bottom line: we all share the responsibility.

 

[CCI]

Disclaimer: I probably should have placed this in the "Pet Peeves" thread, but I wanted to open up a broader discussion on the topic.

There are a number of things that have come up in these dire economic times that have made me think a lot about personal accountability. I don't mean this to be a sweeping, broad-stroke judgment of damnation nor is it a pulpit for me to soapbox.

For me, personal accountability is HUGE. I try to evaluate the impact of my decisions in varying concentric circles from myself outward. I realize that society is made up of a pendulum of different degrees in this regard. But I ask: has society always had this many people who appear to have no regard for personal accountability? Is there anything in this society that promotes or discourages personal accountability?

Anyway... if you've got a beef for/against what I've said; then share it. I would really like to just have an open philosophical discussion on the matter.

good topicpersnal accountability is huge. For me being accountable for the actions and choices that we make. Honesty is a major part in being accountable. Society is so judgemental on those who make mistakes. Being a man and trying not to make the same choices in the future that to me is accountability. We live and learn and those individuals who lie and decieve others is no way IMO being repected by our peers.

 

[IronBuckI]

I blame Ty Willingham.

 

[MililaniBuckeye]

While much of what you say is true, if we snatched the babies out of the cribs of the personal responsibility crowd and dropped them in homes in Michigan, you'd get teen pregnancy humpin', welfare loving, mouth breathing social leaches in 20 years or less.

fify

 

[muffler dragon]

i'm sick of it always being someone else's fault. if everyone would step up and do what's best for them the country would be a much better place.

I couldn't agree more.

Yes. The problem to me is the massive victimization complex in this country. Everyone is a victim of something...prejudice, bad childhoods, socioeconomic ills, being picked on in school, not being able to go to college, ADHD, etc., etc...so they use it as an excuse for mediocrity, failure, laziness, crime, or worse. Of course, that also means everyone is a victim of something...meaning if everyone decided to be a victim and take no accountability for anything, we would live in mass anarchy.

To me it has gotten progressively worse because at least it used to seem like people would try, make an effort to succeed, and if they failed or committed a crime THEN they would play the victim card. Now, it seems more and more the people don't even bother trying...they just play the victim card to start, sit back, and wait for someone to feel sorry for them and do something about it, or else commit a crime and then say "Well, no one did anything to help me".

I hadn't thought of the "victim" angle; however, I can definitely see how that plays out. Excellent addition.

So what do we do about it other than whine that it is happening?

It took decades to hundreds of years to create the cultural environments that produce this behavior, so what is the quick fix? Personal responsibility is as much learned behavior as it is innate "character."

Here I agree with you, but want to add that it is not so easy a fix as saying "Just do the right thing, will ya?" and shaking our head about a lack of responsible behavior when we are blessed with the upbringing, skills, example and resources to be responsible.

Sincere Q: IF, as you say, the lack of personal accountability is as much learned as it is "innate"; then do you have any thoughts on what we could do to improve/educate those who are deficient in this matter?

Can't say what BL's thinking, but I agree with both of ya, at the same time.

Same here.

That's a choice

Now, when one talks about gang violence in the hood, more factors come into play, but the bottom line is still that people, eventually, make their own choices. There are often consequences of those choices, and they often negatively affect other people, sometimes severely. When that happens, I refuse to let people off the hook.

I must admit that I am just as cut and dry on this matter. SLEEP IN THE FUCKING BED THAT YOU MADE!!! And I say this just as much to myself as I do to others. Maybe it's an unjust standard, but that's how I'm wired. Attempting to understand if my standard is too severe is partly why I started this thread. These points and thoughts by those posting are giving me lots of points to meditate on.

good topicpersnal accountability is huge. For me being accountable for the actions and choices that we make. Honesty is a major part in being accountable. Society is so judgemental on those who make mistakes. Being a man and trying not to make the same choices in the future that to me is accountability. We live and learn and those individuals who lie and decieve others is no way IMO being repected by our peers.

That (honesty) is DEFINITELY a huge key in personal accountability. The ability to lift one's head up in acknowledge fault can not only be advantageous to others, but it can also be cathartic. Talk about diffusing situations, hostilities, angst, etc. Excellent point.

 

[PlanetFrnd]

Whatever, that's not my job.

 

[Gatorubet]

i'm sick of it always being someone else's fault. if everyone would step up and do what's best for them the country would be a much better place.

Aye! - There's the rub!

 

[BUCKYLE]

I'm not even supposed to be here today!