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wstripes said:
Wisconsin could beat Cal? Well Wisconsin could barely beat Arizona....need I say more
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Yeah, I'd say you need to say more. If team A beats team B and team B beats team C you can't simply say Team A would beat team C. It's just simply not the way things work.

It's nearly impossible to say which conference is better on paper. I didn't think for a second Iowa would get pounded by Arizona St. I didn't think Oregon would lose to Indiana at home. I didn't think Wisconsin would struggle to beat Arizona. I honestly think arguments could be made for both sides.
 
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No, they are referring to Wazzu. So much for 'proving it for 3 years'. How can you even judge the Pac10 if you didn't know that Wazzu has 30 wins the last 3 seasons?

FKAGobucks877 said:
Methomps, I'm assuming this

refers to Cal? The problem is, with Cal's schedule, they're dropping two or three games a year to bad or mediocre teams.
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I have heard this said about Michigan about a dozen times on this board.
 
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No, they are referring to Wazzu. So much for 'proving it for 3 years'. How can you even judge the Pac10 if you didn't know that Wazzu has 30 wins the last 3 seasons?
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do you know the records of each team in each conference for the last 3 years?

bottom line..30 wins in the pac-10 isnt 30 wins in the SEC, Big10, or Big12 :lol:

I have heard this said about Michigan about a dozen times on this board.
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cal does this and plays in a weak conference. michigan does it in a real one.
 
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Up to this year I would argue untill I was blue in the face that the Pac 10 was the weakest BCS conference and would have plenty of ammo to back it up with.

In 2004 however, its pretty clear to me that the SEC is tops by a wide margin and that the Pac10 is much stronger than in years past. Honestly I would have to say the B10, Pac10, ACC and B12 are kinda all in one big so-so lump at this stage of the game.

To my fellow B10'ers I would point out how bad MSU, IU and Illinois look right now, truely pitiful football teams. I think Northwestern and PSU will be lucky to go bowling.

Wisky and Minny are likely to go to a lower tier bowl and do some damage.

OSU, scUM, Iowa and Purdue are you only real players on the national scene from the B10 right now. 2 of those have already had humiliating defeats and one will have 2 losses by the end of tomorrow.

Purdue hasn't played anyone yet and OSU has shown serious flaws. If I'm not a B10 fan and look at it objectively at this point in the year I'm not overwhelmed but then again, outside the SEC no one is impressive to me right now.
 
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You're freaking kidding right? From out of no where you drop Washington State's record into the discussion and I'm supposed to pick up on this when you've been discussing Cal the whole time? What a joke you've turned out to be. Not only that you're proving everyone else's point. Wazzu was good for a couple of years (1 team from the PAC10), now USC is good for a couple of years (1 team from the PAC10). Here's the part about proving it for 3-4 years. What's Wazzu doing now? What has Cal done before this season? What did SC do 4 years ago? You've got one team that's EARNED respect over that time frame. WSU for several years, now SC for several years. CAL still hasn't done squat. I thought you liked to talk football, but your last response is a joke. We played WSU ... and SPANKED them bad! So yes I'm aware of their program, but that doesn't make them consistently good.

Here's the break down of their oh so impressive 3 year run. Do you notice anything consistent concerning their win/loss versus ranked and unranked teams?


Ranking at end of season


2001:* 10-2-0 WSU Ranked #10

W 36 - 7 Idaho - UNRANKED
W 41 - 20 Boise St. (ID) - UNRANKED
W 51 - 20 California - UNRANKED
W 48 - 21 Arizona - UNRANKED
W 34 -27 Oregon St. - UNRANKED
W 45 -39 Stanford (CA) - UNRANKED
W 53 - 28 Montana St. - UNRANKED
L 17 - 24 Oregon - RANKED #2
W 20 - 14 UCLA - UNRANKED
W 28 - 16 Arizona St. - UNRANKED
L 14 - 26 Washington - RANKED #19
W 33 - 27 Purdue (IN) - Sun Bowl - UNRANKED



2002:* 10-3-0 WSU Ranked #10

W 31 - 7 Nevada - UNRANKED
W 49 - 14 Idaho - UNRANKED
L 7 - 25 Ohio St. - RANKED #1
W 45 - 28 Montana St. - UNRANKED
W 48 - 38 California - UNRANKED
W 30 - 27 Southern California - RANKED #4
W 36 - 11 Stanford (CA) - UNRANKED
W 21 - 13 Arizona - UNRANKED
W 44 - 22 Arizona St. - UNRANKED
W 32 - 21 Oregon - UNRANKED
L 26 - 29 Washington - UNRANKED
W 48 - 27 UCLA WSU - UNRANKED
L 14 - 34 Oklahoma - Rose Bowl - RANKED #5



2003:* 10-3-0 WSU Ranked #9

W 25 - 0 Idaho - UNRANKED
L 26 - 29 Notre Dame (IN) - UNRANKED
W 47 - 26 Colorado - UNRANKED
W 23 - 13 New Mexico - UNRANKED
W 55 - 16 Oregon - UNRANKED
W 30 - 7 Arizona - UNRANKED
W 24 - 14 Stanford (CA) - UNRANKED
W 36 - 30 Oregon St. - UNRANKED
L 16 - 43 Southern California - RANKED #1
W 31 - 13 UCLA - UNRANKED
W 34 - 19 Arizona St. - UNRANKED
L 19 - 27 Washington - UNRANKED
W 28 - 20 Texas - Holiday Bowl - RANKED #12



Well, let's see. The team you hold up as PAC10 Standard bearer (since Cal isn't working for your argument) has beaten 2 ranked teams (in 3 years) while losing to 4 ranked teams and 3 unranked teams. Not the stuff of legends. And what do you expect for WSU this season? Yeah. So don't give me any crap about how can I judge. I know full well what WSU did and why YOU didn't bother to dig below the 10-2, 10-3, and 10-3 records ... not as pretty as you'd like it to seem.
 
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I never said WSU was the standard-bearer, so please don't attribute stuff to me that I never said. I presented WSU specifically to counter the argument that nobody had done anything in the Pac10 outside USC. You specifically said:


Prove it for a couple three years and then you get some kudos.
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Wazzu has 3 straight top 10 finishes, which nobody in the Big10 can claim.

Wazzu was good for a couple of years (1 team from the PAC10), now USC is good for a couple of years (1 team from the PAC10).
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No, it has been concurrent.

Last year: USC 1, Wazzu 10
2001: USC 3, Wazzu 9

We played WSU ... and SPANKED them bad!
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You call me a joke and then use this one game to argue against Wazzu? I guess the B10 has been only OSU since USC has beaten both Michigan and Iowa bad. By your logic, they can't be considered consistently good since we beat them. Who is the joke again?
 
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3 yards and a cloud has made a hell of an argument here!!!!

Oregon got beat by Indiana folks!!!!!
Washington is absolutely horrible!! They will lose to ND
Arizona sucks!!!! The Big Ten never plays good on the left coast
Oregon State can't make a field goal or keep it close vs. MWC teams!!!
Washington St. is nothing to write home about!!!
UCLA sucks!!! Oh my god they beat Illinois a team Indiana will probably beat by 2-3 TD's

Right now the cream of the crop in the PAC-10 is ASU,USC,CAL, and
Stanford!!

Give me a damn break!!!! These teams have a cupcake conference folks!!!!

OSU, Minny, Purdue can beat any team in their conference. I'm not sold on this USC is #1 Bullshit the media is cooking!!! They haven't faced a great team yet and should have lost to Virginia Tech.

Every team in the Big Ten that has a first year starter will improve throughout the year. The PAC-10 has almost all of their teams with returning starters at QB vs. almost none in the Big Ten(Indiana, Illinois, Penn St.,and Purdue.

With all of the young teams in the Big Ten people better talk shit now before these teams get experienced in time for bowl season.

I know I wouldn't want to play OSU after Zwick and the O-line get about 4-5 more games under their belt!!!
 
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Listen Methomps, I called you a joke because you are acting like one. You are in an extended debate extolling the virtues of SC and Cal and drop 3 years of records out of thin air. When I ask who they belong to (because they obviously aren't Cal) you say I can't judge anything about the PAC10 because I don't know those records to be WSU. WTF!?!? Nice way to switch the topic when it doesn't suit your thesis. I point out that OSU spanked WSU only to show that I'm aware of their program and that it WAS fairly prominent for a couple of years. Secondly you are a joke because I'm not trying to argue the merits of the Big10 over the PAC10, I said it's too early to tell. But your flipant attitude is forcing me into this arguement ... that's smart. I said you must EARN respect. You give me all of ONE FREAKING EXAMPLE! And not a very impressive one at that. BTW, did you notice anything about the wins and loss WSu was posting? No answer. You tell me, should we be giving WSU some respect this season? Well? So I guess this doesn't change the respect argument does it? I'm judging from your direction, WSU must be the 2nd or 3rd best team in the PAC10 right? Freaking joke.

Here's a clue. Don't change the topic midstream and then belittle some for not knowing what the fuck you're talking about. Here's an example: O-fer. Any idea what that relates to?

EDIT: Oh and BTW, I didn't just use 1 game (OSU) to counter your WSU argument. Look at my post detailing their 3 years. AND, your missing the point about taking 2-3 years to earn respect. It happens after 2-3 years. So NO, USC and WSU didn't earn my respect concurrently. Sheesh.
 
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3yardsandacloud said:
Listen Methomps, I called you a joke because you are acting like one. You are in an extended debate extolling the virtues of SC and Cal and drop 3 years of records out of thin air. When I ask who they belong to (because they obviously aren't Cal) you say I can't judge anything about the PAC10 because I don't know those records to be WSU. WTF!?!? Nice way to switch the topic when it doesn't suit your thesis.
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I wasn't switching topics, I was responding to your argument that nobody in the pac10 has done anything over the past 3 years.

Secondly you are a joke because I'm not trying to argue the merits of the Big10 over the PAC10, I said it's too early to tell. But your flipant attitude is forcing me into this arguement
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I haven't said anything to you about Pac10vsBig10 this year.


Here's a clue. Don't change the topic midstream and then belittle some for not knowing what the fuck you're talking about.
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BTW, did you notice anything about the wins and loss WSu was posting? No answer.
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I would answer, but then you'll accuse me of changing the subject again. Just like when I offered Wazzu's record in response to your claim that nobody else in the Pac10 had done anything the last 3 years.

Here's an example: O-fer. Any idea what that relates to
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Big10 champs vs SC the last couple years?
 
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Bold are BCS teams (non-conference), italics are MW/WAC

Wazzou has beaten: New Mexico and Idaho, lost to Colorado
Cal has beaten: Air Force and New Mexico State

Arizona State has beaten: UTEP, NW, Iowa

Stanford has beaten: San Jose State, BYU

USC has beaten: Va Tech, BYU, Colorado State

Oregon State has beaten: New Mexico and lost to Boise State, LSU

UCLA has beaten: Illinois, Washington, lost to Oklahoma State

Oregon has beaten: uh...... lost to Indiana, Oklahoma

Washington has beaten: uhh.... lost to Fresno State, UCLA

Arizona has beaten: I-AA lost to Utah, Wisconsin



So, we conclude:

1-the Pac 10 can lay a serious old-school beatmuffin on any school daring to field a team from the state of New Mexico

2-The wins and losses against BCS teams are about even, and I'll take Colorado, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, and LSU over Indiana, NW, Va Tech, and Iowa, meaning you haven't really beaten anyone of any significance all season except maybe Iowa, who will finish 5th or worse in the Big 10

3-No team in the conference could even muster a victory against either the best team in the MW or the two best teams in the WAC

So if you really want to play tit for tat with the quality of the wins, I'm afraid we don't end up grovelling to the obvious superiority of the Pac 10...no matter how you look at it.
 
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