Yankees-Indians Blockbuster Trade Rumor

[AKAK]

A package of Henn & Duncan is good enough to get 99.99% of the players in baseball on the table in trade talks. Even Grady Sizemore. Whether or not the trigger gets pulled is another conversation altogehter, but Shapiro would be a dope not to listen to that.

99% of the players in the league that have a big contract or are in a Free Agency year or both....

Point is... you have a much better shot at getting Jim Thome or [gasp] Manny Ramirez (though its a Red Sox Yankee trade, which would never happen, the Sox would be interested in getting rid of that Contract) with Henn and Duncan than you do Grady Sizemore. Actually, you could get those guys for less.... What the NY Papers, or wherever this came from, is missing is that the Indians need young cheap Major League ready players... which is what Sizemore is.... and these are Baseball prospects... one in the hand, is ALWAYS better than two in the Bush...err.. on the Farm.

Reality is that the days of the "Bartolo Colon for your farm team" are over.... they were right after that move... and they will be more... to be honest... If I were the Yankees, and wanted to move these guys... I would jsut take my chances this year... give them an audition in September, hope they perform and trade them in the offseason... or next summer... that's the only way they are going to get good value out of them...

 

[Sloopy45]

Brutus1: "Who told you he was a clone? The NY Post ?"

Actually, dope: at equivalent ages, Wright hit .266-11-93 for Columbia of Low A-Ball (age 19), and at Age 20, hit .270-15-75 at St. Lucie of High A Ball.

At age 19, Duncan finished the season 2 levels higher than Wright, splitting the year between Middle A & High A, and hitting .258-16-83. At age 20, Duncan is already in Double A, a year ahead of Wright, and is hitting .238-14-49 (through 100 games) with a .333 OBP & .390 SLG for the Trenton Thunder.

So, if we go by Minor League Production, then you're right: he's not a David Wright clone, he's better.

"Nope. I specifically remember both players being talked about how they're going to be stars in the bigs, not just major leaguers. Again, you're wrong Yankee boy. You Yankee fans live in a fantasy world."

Then you're specifically remembering specifically wrong. I'm extremely confident that I know approximately 3,720 times more about the Yankees' farm system over the last twenty years than you do. And no one, not Gene Michael, not Billy Connors, not Mark Newman, not Brian Cashman, or any of the Yanks' scouts projected either of those two as anything more than a major league prospect.

"If that pitcher was anything but a big turd, he'd still be in NY starting for the Wanks. Boy, he's really pitching well for the Clippers!"

He's not ready, dummy. And FYI: he's dominating Triple A: 2.82 ERA, 5-4, 79.2 IP, 70 H, 23 BB, & 54 K.

Anymore useless drivel you'd like to share with the group?

AKAK: "What the NY Papers, or wherever this came from, is missing is that the Indians need young cheap Major League ready players"

It actually came from a Seattle paper. They're real biased.

"What the NY Papers, or wherever this came from, is missing is that the Indians need young cheap Major League ready players"

That's the point. The Yankees AREN'T looking to move these guys. Maybe they'd part with them for a Sizemore or one of the other very young stars in baseball, but that's it.

"that's the only way they are going to get good value out of them..."

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: they can get WHOEVER they want in baseball if this package is available. They don't have to audition off the best 3B prospect in baseball & a lefty who throws 93 & features a cutter-change-slider.

Just the fact that Shapiro even CONSIDERED moving Sizemore should tell you how great a package this is ..

 

[Piney]

Piney: "It is funny that every baseball expert I have seen said the Yankees minor league system sucks so badly they don't have enough ammo to trade for anyone."

Hmm. These people may chirp, but last year the Yankees system produced Yhency Brazoban, who has 18 saves for the Dodgers & Brad Halsey, who's in the running for Rookie Pitcher of the Year in the NL this season. And oh yeah, what about this season? Robinson Cano & Chien-Mien Wang .. the Yanks also have two of the best prospects in baseball in Duncan & righthander Philip Hughes.

Did you want to get in depth about the Yanks system, or were you just talking out of your ass?

Unfortunately I don't talk out of my ass, I look at Baseball America and other minor league publications that rate the Yankee Minor League system in the lower third of the league. According to Baseball America the Yankees only have 1 top 100 prospect at #36 being Duncan. The Indians have 5 on that list. I can provide a link if you want but they say the top levels of the Yankees minor league are bare on talent but the lower levels are finally showing promise and getting stocked.

Minorleaguebaseball.com rates the Yankees 22nd overall and in the bottom 5 of top players ready for the big leagues with only 3. This ranking was from the spring and they said their top 3 minor leaguers were Duncan, Cano & Chien.

Do I know the Yankee system in-depth? Heck no cuz I am not a Yankee fan. But I do remember when the rumors of Clemens coming back to the Yankees that many MLB experts were saying that the Yankees didn't have enough prospects that other teams covet that could get a trade done and other teams were in better condition to make trades.

But like all prospect rankings you never know what you will get. Many top rated minor leaguers fall flat on their face and never make it while lower level prospects get a call up and then explode out of nowhere. Perfect example was when the Indians traded Bartolo Colon. The best prospect was suppose to be Brandon Phillips followed by Cliff Lee. The 3rd prospect was a project that was a few years away from the big leagues but had alot of tools.

Well, that 3rd prospect is turning out to be the best in Grady Sizemore and Cliff Lee ain't all that bad. Brandon Phillips has fallen on his face though but when talking farm system you always want quantity so when prospects fail you have others to back them up. The Yankees only have a few and if they miss they have to wait a few years for the next group. They just got lucky and Chien & Cano have been hits rather than misses.

Just the fact that Shapiro even CONSIDERED moving Sizemore should tell you how great a package this is ..

You have the article? I just want to see how they mentioned that Shapiro was considering it. He might have considered it for a second then laughed his ass off.

 

[Sloopy45]

Piney: "According to Baseball America the Yankees only have 1 top 100 prospect at #36 being Duncan."

The Baseball America you have is outdated. Duncan was # 22 in their last publication, and it didn't include Cano anymore (since he's not a "prospect" anymore - he's in the big leagues). Plus, those publications tend to weigh the higher level players more than the lower levels: i.e. Hughes is the best A-Ball pitching prospect, but he's not likely to be on that list.

"But I do remember when the rumors of Clemens coming back to the Yankees that many MLB experts were saying that the Yankees didn't have enough prospects that other teams covet that could get a trade done and other teams were in better condition to make trades."

Those same 'experts' said that Cano would never amount to anything in the Bigs, and Wang was a # 4 starter at best. The Yankees system is top heavy. Is it as good as it was in the mid-90's? No way. But, in 2000, those same 'experts' in Baseball America rated the Yanks the # 1 system & there were only two star prospects in the entire system: Soriano & Johnson. So I don't put much weight on what they say or rank.

 

[Piney]

The Baseball America you have is outdated. Duncan was # 22 in their last publication, and it didn't include Cano anymore (since he's not a "prospect" anymore - he's in the big leagues). Plus, those publications tend to weigh the higher level players more than the lower levels: i.e. Hughes is the best A-Ball pitching prospect, but he's not likely to be on that list.

I did say it was from the spring But they should weigh to the AA & AAA prospects because those are the more tradable assets and also closest to the big leagues. And I also did say that what I read the Yankees best prospects are in the lower levels compared to the upper levels.

In trading it depends on what the other team is looking for. Yes Hughes might be the best A-Ball pitcher but that means he is 2-3 years away baring injury and setbacks in his development. The real question is your trade partner looking to contend next year (ala the Indians) or in a rebuilding mode looking 2-3 years down the line.

 

[Brutus1]

Brutus1: "Who told you he was a clone? The NY Post ?"

Actually, dope: at equivalent ages, Wright hit .266-11-93 for Columbia of Low A-Ball (age 19), and at Age 20, hit .270-15-75 at St. Lucie of High A Ball.

At age 19, Duncan finished the season 2 levels higher than Wright, splitting the year between Middle A & High A, and hitting .258-16-83. At age 20, Duncan is already in Double A, a year ahead of Wright, and is hitting .238-14-49 (through 100 games) with a .333 OBP & .390 SLG for the Trenton Thunder.

So, if we go by Minor League Production, then you're right: he's not a David Wright clone, he's better.

You're right Corky, .238 in AA is better than .364 in the same AA league. Age doesn't matter, what's the difference in 1 year. So Duncan hit .258 in A and now .238 in AA and he's better than Wright ? Good luck believing your own bullshit you 'tard.

Then you're specifically remembering specifically wrong. I'm extremely confident that I know approximately 3,720 times more about the Yankees' farm system over the last twenty years than you do. And no one, not Gene Michael, not Billy Connors, not Mark Newman, not Brian Cashman, or any of the Yanks' scouts projected either of those two as anything more than a major league prospect.

OOOOhhhhh, you know more about the Yankees than I. Wow, you're a friggin genius. I'm just going by what I heard at the time regarding both those guys. Putz!


He's not ready, dummy. And FYI: he's dominating Triple A: 2.82 ERA, 5-4, 79.2 IP, 70 H, 23 BB, & 54 K.

This one really made me laugh: He's dominating AAA hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha. He was dominating against the Rays twice and the Mets. 11.1 era,11.1ip 18h , 14er, 11bb and 3K's. Very impressive. Let's see, he's not ready for the bigs, but is dominating AAA, what's next, are the Yankees going to promote him to AAAA?

Anymore useless drivel you'd like to share with the group?

Sure, you keep posting stupid shit and I'll keep calling you a dipshit.

 

[Sloopy45]

Brutus1: "You're right Corky, .238 in AA is better than .364 in the same AA league. Age doesn't matter, what's the difference in 1 year. So Duncan hit .258 in A and now .238 in AA and he's better than Wright ? Good luck believing your own bullshit you 'tard."

This is priceless. Its amazing what some people will say to prove a false point. One year means nothing? At ages 18, 19, 20 in ANY sport, one year is light year's difference! What's the difference between an 18-year old redshirt freshman Michael Vick who can't make Va Tech in '99 & a 19-year old freshman Vick who's a Heisman candidate in '00? One year.

Duncan is a level higher than Wright at a younger age! And, average aside, the numbers aren't that different: he has the same power & RBI numbers! Why don't we wait & compare what Duncan does at Double A next year when he's the same age as Wright??

"I'm just going by what I heard at the time regarding both those guys. Putz!"

Well, you heard wrong, Dunce!

"He was dominating against the Rays twice and the Mets. 11.1 era,11.1ip 18h , 14er, 11bb and 3K's. Very impressive."

He got called up twice in an emergency situation & was in Double A at the time! He's not ready. You really are dense: you think every player is major league ready at 18 years old? Why even have a minor league then??

Whoa! He got called up prematurely and sucked in three starts. That tells me a lot ..

 

[Brutus1]

Then you're specifically remembering specifically wrong. I'm extremely confident that I know approximately 3,720 times more about the Yankees' farm system over the last twenty years than you do. And no one, not Gene Michael, not Billy Connors, not Mark Newman, not Brian Cashman, or any of the Yanks' scouts projected either of those two as anything more than a major league prospect.

Uh, I guess Mr Sloopy Einstein isn't as versed in the Yankees as he thought. Wow, according to Baseball America ( I'm pretty sure they are more knowledgable than yourself), Claussen was the Yankees #1 pitching prospect in 2002. He was ranked #37 overall of the top 100 prospects.
....and, best of all: Top 100 prospects by year according to BA:
'95 '96 '97
#2 Ruben Rivera #3 Rivera #9 Rivera
#3 Chipper Jones #6 Jeter
#4 Jeter #9 Vlad G
#6 Shawn Green #16 Kerry Wood


So, it looks to me that Mr Yankee baseball isn't quite as smart as he thinks. Yea, Rivera was never regarded as anything more than a major leaguer.

Looks like you better get back to memorizing all your Yankee media guides from the last 30 years: you just flunked the test. You dope!!

 

[Buckeye Nut]

The Yankees can dream on if they think they'll be getting a sniff of Grady Sizemore. Replace Sizemore with say Ryan Garko or some other good Indians minor leaguer then I'd consider it. If I'm Shapiro and I hear the name Sizemore brought up, that's when the conversation is over.

 

[Brutus1]

This is priceless. Its amazing what some people will say to prove a false point. One year means nothing? At ages 18, 19, 20 in ANY sport, one year is light year's difference! What's the difference between an 18-year old redshirt freshman Michael Vick who can't make Va Tech in '99 & a 19-year old freshman Vick who's a Heisman candidate in '00? One year.

Duncan is a level higher than Wright at a younger age! And, average aside, the numbers aren't that different: he has the same power & RBI numbers! Why don't we wait & compare what Duncan does at Double A next year when he's the same age as Wright??

Sorry, but you keep posting garbage, so I need to keep responding. Wright made the majors when he was 21. Duncan is 20 and will be 21 in December, is he going to be in the majors before he's 21? You're reasoning is really funny. The Vick comparison is hilarious.
"Average aside" You incompetent fool, why is average aside, but hr and rbi's comparable? What about steals, or are those aside too? Sorry, but you keep that future stud. I'll take Wright.

Boy, Duncans got a great glove too, he's a Brooks Robinson clone. Those 22 errors are also impressive. Of course he has Wright beat there. Wright only has 17.

:stupid: :stupid: :stupid: :stupid: :stupid:

 

[Sloopy45]

Brutus1: "Claussen was the Yankees #1 pitching prospect in 2002"

Big deal. There wasn't another pitcher in the system with a pulse in '02. And oh yeah, he also blew out his elbow after that, had Tommy John surgery and was never the same. He was never as highly regarded after the elbow injury.

"Wow, according to Baseball America ( I'm pretty sure they are more knowledgable than yourself)"

So tell me again how the Yankees are 'over-hyping' their prospects if this information comes from Baseball America? Does Steinbrenner own Baseball America too?

"So, it looks to me that Mr Yankee baseball isn't quite as smart as he thinks."

No, actually, it means you can't spell, write, made this up, or have dyslexia:

"#2 Ruben Rivera #3 Rivera #9 Rivera" Are these the Rivera triplets?? What the F does this mean?

"#3 Chipper Jones #6 Jeter" Ok. This is useless.

"#4 Jeter #9 Vlad G" More useless.

"#6 Shawn Green #16 Kerry Wood" Any more useless information less impertinent to this conversation you'd like to post? How about your inflatable girlfriend's take on American foreign policy?

"Looks like you better get back to memorizing all your Yankee media guides"

Baseball America has nothing to do with the Yankee media guide. Can you post something relevant please?

"Boy, Duncans got a great glove too, he's a Brooks Robinson clone. Those 22 errors are also impressive. Of course he has Wright beat there. Wright only has 17."

Wow. This really means something, doesn't it?

 

[Brutus1]

Brutus1: "Claussen was the Yankees #1 pitching prospect in 2002"

Big deal. There wasn't another pitcher in the system with a pulse in '02. And oh yeah, he also blew out his elbow after that, had Tommy John surgery and was never the same. He was never as highly regarded after the elbow injury.


So, he had Tommy John ? You mean the same Tommy John that Henn had? While you're busy trying to tell the Indian fans how good Henn is, while telling me how average Claussen was, perhaps you can read the 3rd question down on ths link:baseball america

Were you the shmuck that asked him this question?




"So, it looks to me that Mr Yankee baseball isn't quite as smart as he thinks."

No, actually, it means you can't spell, write, made this up, or have dyslexia:

Do you want the link to Baseball America's top prospects from '96,'97 and '98. Like every response of mine, it will prove you wrong.


"#2 Ruben Rivera #3 Rivera #9 Rivera" Are these the Rivera triplets?? What the F does this mean?

Ok dope, I'll type this slow for you--- it's BA's prospect ratings for 96-98. It means and proves that a) Rivera was a much higher touted prospect than
Sloopy the Dope gave him credit for and b) You're too stupid to admit you were wrong. ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha.




"#3 Chipper Jones #6 Jeter" Ok. This is useless.

"#4 Jeter #9 Vlad G" More useless.

"#6 Shawn Green #16 Kerry Wood" Any more useless information less impertinent to this conversation you'd like to post? How about your inflatable girlfriend's take on American foreign policy?

OOOHHHHH, that was really funny. Weak attempt at humor to cover up your mistakes. Dope!


Boy, for a guy that knows 3720 times more than me about the Yankee farm system, I'm surprised that you didn't remember how highly regarded Rivera was. Maybe you just get slective amnesia when a prospect flops. It was nice beating you down in this thread.

 

[Sloopy45]

Brutus1: "So, he had Tommy John ? You mean the same Tommy John that Henn had? While you're busy trying to tell the Indian fans how good Henn is, while telling me how average Claussen was, perhaps you can read the 3rd question down on ths link:"

I'm only telling you what the facts are. Claussen was well regarded until he missed the entire 2002 season with elbow surgery. He went back down to A-Ball in '03 and had to fight his way back. He was never as highly regarded after that.

Henn had Tommy John surgery during his first year, missed all of '01, has been in the Yankees system for 4 years, and he's highly regarded now. What can I say? I don't make the rules, I just report 'em. Henn seems to have recovered fully, and Claussen never regained his velocity.

"Were you the shmuck that asked him this question?"

Nope. But that's his opinion. Fine. Again, I'm only reporting. This guy doesn't like Henn, but Shapiro (and I) do. Remember, he says that he didn't think much of Cano, either. Minor League rankings are shoddy at best: go look at any of the rankings and see how they pan out. Remember when Todd Zeile, Ben McDonald, & Greg Vaughn were much better prospects than Frank Thomas, Jeff Bagwell, & Mike Piazza?

'Nuff said.

"Rivera was a much higher touted prospect"

Dude, just because someone is the # 2 prospect in a team's system doesn't mean shit. In 1996, the Yankees' top prospects came up all at once: Jeter, Posada, Mo Rivera, and Pettite all came up between '95 & '97. So Rivera gets bumped up from the # 5 prospect on the farm (which doesn't indicate star in the making) to # 2 by default. And, as your stupid post would indicate, he dropped from # 2 to # 9 in the span of 3 seasons. What does that tell you?

"I'm surprised that you didn't remember how highly regarded Rivera was."

Stupid: Rivera BOMBED in Triple A in '96. He hit .235 in 101 games. He was never going to make the Yankees. Instead of showing me these stupid & subjective rankings, why don't you show me where any of these scouting reports projected Rivera to be a star, like they projected Jeter & Soriano to be stars?? Show me ..

The Yankees made room on the ML roster for all of their prospects who they thought would make the club & excel at the major league level: they were gonna release Tony Fernandez (if he didn't get hurt) to make room at SS for Jeter in '96. They moved Knoblauch to LF to make room for Soriano at 2B in '01. They traded Roberto Kelly to the Reds to make room for Bernie Williams in CF in '03.

But yet, the team (with a gaping hole in LF throughout the Dynasty years) never made room for this supposed "superstar in the making" Ruben Rivera?? He never even got a legit shot to MAKE the team! Gee, I wonder why? Could it be that (although Baseball America surely did), that they never thought that much of him??

Is the bell ringing in that brainless head of yours yet??

"It was nice beating you down in this thread."

Did your inflatable girlfriend tell you that?

I'm pretty sure that she's the only one you could beat down.

 

[Brutus1]

I never said it was theYankess that were hyping their prospects. It's just natural for the media to hype them.

I'm just not buying you're claim that this would be an even trade for Cleveland. No matter how much Shapiro likes Henn (if he does), he's never, ever going to trade Sizemore, Millwood and Rhodes for Duncan-Henn when he's so close to a playoff spot.

 

[Sloopy45]

Brutus1: "I'm just not buying you're claim that this would be an even trade for Cleveland."

I never said ONCE that Cleveland WOULD, SHOULD, or WILL make this deal. I never said the Yankees WOULD, SHOULD, or COULD make this deal.

I merely reported what was written in a Seattle newspaper, and said that the Yankees were offering a big package for Sizemore. Period.

Why this causes morons like you to jump down my throat is beyond me. Perhaps stupidity? Perhaps inability to read? Perhaps you don't get enough attention at home & try to get it here? I dunno .. I can't answer that .. all I know is, that Santiago was set to leave the base at 0600.