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Buckeye Defense - 2004 (official thread)

OSU Rob said:
While our skill players were fumbling all over the place, theirs were making acrobatic TD catches while Anthony Davis ran for 176 yds. on our D.
OSU held Anthony Davis in check pretty much for the first three quarters but after that fumble by Holmes and the continual 3 and out by our Offense, the Defense was just wore out. No excuses though 176 yrds rushing is too much.
 
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Getting back to the original issue of this thread:

Changing coordinators, losing 14 NFL caliber players and being left with one senior on defense is not a recipe for success.

Before the season I was discussing OSU's prospects with some Criminole fans here in Tallahassee (at work). I brought up my concerns about losing D'Antonio and said that I doubted that we would win the conference after losing 14 players to the NFL.

One of the more ignorant Semen Holes retorted that "We do it all the time...".

To their credit, the other FSU fans present beat him down immediately. They were all aware that 14 was a record that they had not approached.

That having been said, I still believe that someone on this team may very well step up to a position of leadership and that this team will improve dramatically in the coming weeks.

As Mililani said, the pieces are all in place and there are great games (and seasons) coming.
 
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defence

MililaniBuckeye said:
Some folks, myself included to a degree, are complaining about our soft defense and lack of adjustments of Snyder's part. After a bit of contemplation, I figured I take a look at how our defense has done in the second halves of this year's games, as our second half adjustments were the key to our dominating defense and national title of two years ago. Here are the points given up in the second half so far this year:

Week 1 - Cincy: 3 points
Week 2 - Marshall: 7 points
Week 3 - NC State: 14 points
Week 4 - Northwestern: 14 points
Week 5 - Wisconsin: 10 points

Keep in mind that the TD Wisconsin scored in the second half was a result of their recovering a fumbled punt on our 17 yard line. We played decent second half defense, points wise, in three games. Even the 14 points given up in the second half at NC State were the result of their only two good rives of the game (we had otherwise shut them down). The Northwestern game was the only second half where I felt that we had no effective adjustments in the second half. Also realize that our defense has been spending a lot of time on the field as a result of our offense's habit of three-and-out, along with the QBs of both Northwestern and Wisconsin playing far above their norm (i.e., playing out their asses). Note the time-of-possession in our nail-biter win and in our two losses:

Marshall: 35:43 Ohio State: 24:17
Northwestern: 31:41 Ohio State: 28:19
Wisconsin: 36:29 Ohio State: 23:31

We dominated TOP in our two wins that were more convincing.

Despite these factors, the defense is giving up only 17 defensive ppg in regulation so far (remember that one of Marshall's TDs came via their defense). Take away the gift TD we gave to Wisconsin, and it's under 16 ppg...not bad for a defense that currently has but four full-time starters from last year (Salley, Fraser, Hawk, Reynolds) and no seniors playing. I think Fox's return will help stabilize the defense...his persona, captaincy, and field leadership are vital intangibles.

Snyder is new and is learning (he just hasn't learned to take his ass up to the booth). Our defense has a bunch of starters with limited experience and has played without it's captain for three weeks. It also has to rotate players more often than it should due to the offense's lack of ball control. All these lead me to believe that once these work themselves out, as they should, we should see defense performance reminiscent of the last two seasons.
Great post! love those stats and facts. Yes it's true Offence has hurt the "D" so far this year. And Snyder is a different type of coach than Dantonio. One additional reason why our defence might be lagging is just simply that Snyder is an adjustment from Dantonio. we all know how long it takes for most players and coaches take to get it down. I do see improvement and i know there will be more in the future.
 
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Well, someone mentioned 3rd down conversion rates, so I thought I'd look and see if that was really true. Here's what I found...
YEAR CONV/ATT PCT POSS PPG
2004 30/83 36% 30:31 19.6
2003 73/208 35% 29:27 17.6
2002 78/219 36% 28:17 13.1

As you can see, the conversion rate hasn't really changed. What has changed is time of possession and points per game. It's pretty simple to me... The offense can't sustain a drive, giving the opponents more time to work and better field position to work with. Therefore, with an extra two minutes of possession per game, they're able to score more.
 
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bucknut11 said:
Well, someone mentioned 3rd down conversion rates, so I thought I'd look and see if that was really true. Here's what I found...
YEAR CONV/ATT PCT POSS PPG
2004 30/83 36% 30:31 19.6
2003 73/208 35% 29:27 17.6
2002 78/219 36% 28:17 13.1

As you can see, the conversion rate hasn't really changed. What has changed is time of possession and points per game. It's pretty simple to me... The offense can't sustain a drive, giving the opponents more time to work and better field position to work with. Therefore, with an extra two minutes of possession per game, they're able to score more.
I couldn't agree more! We need a running game! Playing defense at Ohio State this year is probably more of a challenge than at any other school. A running game would solve so many problems.
 
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bucknut11 said:
Well, someone mentioned 3rd down conversion rates, so I thought I'd look and see if that was really true. Here's what I found...
YEAR CONV/ATT PCT POSS PPG
2004 30/83 36% 30:31 19.6
2003 73/208 35% 29:27 17.6
2002 78/219 36% 28:17 13.1

As you can see, the conversion rate hasn't really changed. What has changed is time of possession and points per game. It's pretty simple to me... The offense can't sustain a drive, giving the opponents more time to work and better field position to work with. Therefore, with an extra two minutes of possession per game, they're able to score more.
Its not just the third down conversion rate. Its the third and long rate. We can stop them for two downs and then we seem to give up the 15 yard pass in our nickel package. Stocco was beating us all day. Stan Hill had a field day. Forcing a third and long doesn't seem to be doing us any favors anymore.
 
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bucknut11 said:
Well, someone mentioned 3rd down conversion rates, so I thought I'd look and see if that was really true. Here's what I found...
YEAR CONV/ATT PCT POSS PPG
2004 30/83 36% 30:31 19.6
2003 73/208 35% 29:27 17.6
2002 78/219 36% 28:17 13.1

As you can see, the conversion rate hasn't really changed. What has changed is time of possession and points per game. It's pretty simple to me... The offense can't sustain a drive, giving the opponents more time to work and better field position to work with. Therefore, with an extra two minutes of possession per game, they're able to score more.
It was me that brought up the third down thing ... I was obviously wrong. I would take another guess and say that maybe our redzone defense just isn't as good this year. Again its just speculation, but it seems like we used to force a lot of field goals last year, where this year we are allowing TDs. I will continue to beat the dead horse here though and say that I don't think 19.6 PPG is bad for a new D coordinator, and almost all new starters. Yeah our defense isn't stellar this year, but the offense has sucked for a lot longer (see Bollman), so IMO it takes the blame for any short comings.
 
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While third-down convesion rates may be nearly identical to 2002 so far (keep in mind that the 2002 stats are for all of 2002, while the stats for 2004 are for only five games), this doesn't change the fact we were hurt badly by Wisconsin's late third-down conversions last Saturday, especially on third-and-long.
 
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Leadership on defense is missed. No doubt!

The athleticism up front however is missed more. I think a lot of us thought that Fraiser was better than he is, a lot of us thought that the younger players could replace Will Smith, Tim Anderson, and Darion Scott, especially the last two.

What I see is our DL not eating up blocks like they did in the past, and therefore the linemen are having to easy of of time getting on our LBs stopping them from making the plays. There is no one on our DL that demands a double team. We are playing the game standing up to high on DL, we are guessing and taking to many chances trying to make a play, instead of doing your job.

What I see is what happened the last few years under coop, players not playing the scheme, but rather trying to make the spectacular play, or make a name for themselves.

I see a selfish team. That is why I come back to leadership of people like Doss, Wilhelm, Nickey, W. Smith, T. Anderson, these were people who didn't care who got the glory, who got the press, they just wanted to get it done. They played like a unit. They had a quite confidence that didn't need to be expressed by trying to be the star.

Selfish may not be the right term, maybe they are all just trying to do too much, because things haven't gone their way. It still isn't helping, and lack of leadership on the field is a key.
 
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Good post, Mili, and good stat's, but I don't really agree. This defense, which we would love to say is exceptional, and using your math, has given up 17 points a game...to who? Let's see, UC (who just ended the longest losing streak in the nation by taking one on the chin), Marshall (who is a decent team, but far from comparable to a scUM, Cryami, Wisky, etc.), NC State (see Marshall again), Northwestern (which was a loss, and maybe the worst team we've played), and Wisconsin (great defense, not a very good offensive squad).

Sorry, but I'm still concerned. Now, don't get me wrong, I think Mili is on to some great things here. Once Snyder parks upstairs and the D line gels and gets some experience, this will be a scary good defense. But I don't think it will happen for another couple-three games or so (barring injury, anyway).
 
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My real disappointment this year has been the D-Line, and MLB.

The real issue lies with the defensive line, I chalk this up to the loss of 3 all Big Ten caliber players. I am a firm believer that a middle linebacker is only as good as his defensive line. If the defensive line allows the the offensive lineman to get to the 2nd level on a consistent basis and get into the MLB's you are then forced to have your OLB or your secondary make the tackle. This has been the case quite a bit this year, look how many tackles AJ Hawk has to this date. He should not have that many tackles if you ask me, they should be more evenly distributed among the LB's and defensive lineman.

I've said it before, Snyder really was handed a defense that is not nearly as stacked as last season or the season before. He inherited a great set of LB's, but a mediocre defensive line and an inexperienced secondary. This defense will improve from here on out, and the return of Fox will really give us a physical and psychological boost. The defensive line can only improve as they gain experience.
 
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Well-

After the overall loss of leadership and expereince... which are indeed huge factors. I think it really just comes down to Will Smith. No offense to Mike Kudla, but there might be a slight drop or slight increase in talent as you go around the Defense compared to last year... (Scott was dinged last year, I think Patterson et al has performed almost as well, Pitcock is taking up blockers when I watch him... he's in the backfield once in a while... not much of a drop off from Anderson.. the LB's are better... You miss Will Allen some... but Whitner has been all over the place... Underwood's done a nice job)

What's the difference... OC's don't have to gameplan around Big Will anymore... he just scared the living daylights out of people...took probably chapters out of their playbooks.... and Kudla doesn't do that.

Other things... Snyder describes him self as an 'instinctive' Defensive play caller, compared to Dantonio's 'call by the numbers' style. That's why he likes to be on the sideline... to guage the emotions of the players. I'm not sure I like it... Probably should just go to the booth in the second half... no point in looking in the player's eyes when all they're going to say is I'm freaking tired.
 
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Here's the stat that I find the most telling about our D this year.

Opponents rushing total by game
UC........76
MU......150
NCSU...157
NU.......166
UW......184

Cant run, can't stop the run..tough to win that way.
 
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