Tony Joiner (Former S Florida Gators)

[Steve19]

And I agree with you. But what if your car was at Shamrock, and you called and you had the money, and they said, come on down and get it, and you showed up when they said and they weren't there. It would be wrong to get it yourself, an stupid. But if you went in to get it, and some employee told you to stop after you had gotten the car out, and you stayed and waited to clear it up, you'd still be stupid, but there is a question about whether you would be guilty of a felony.

There are shades of factual elements that make it a different story.

You shot me - you're guilty of murder

But I was walking toward you - you're not guilty b/c self defense

But you showed up at my place with a gun and I had my hands up and was saying I did not want trouble - back to murder

But I had just told you a minute before I said I wanted no trouble that I had mass e-mailed out pictures of your nude daughter I took with a hidden camera - you are now facing manslaughter because you shot me, but it was in the heat of the moment without time for intent

But it turn out you found the hidden camera and had borrowed the gun right before you came to my house - back to murder one.

Not trying to be too cute here Dry, but facts matter. Saying it was taking a car without knowing the interplay of other facts is not the whole picture on what happened. All I'm saying.

You really seem to have a knack for comedy and should possibly consider that as a career.

Please. You don't really think that we are stupid enough to buy that "good old boy" horsecrap about a pre-existing agreement to pick up this car that the tow truck operator "home cooked" up, do you? In fact, you're not stupid enough to believe that are you?

Do you think that the police are in the habit of arresting Florida football captains during the season in Gainsville, without just cause?

Facts matter? Bullshit! With the crap you have posted repeatedly on this board that completely ignores the facts?

Do yourself a favor, before you speak, get your facts straight. It will help you avoid appearing to be ignorant.

Here are the facts:

• Breaking and entering is a felony in the state of Florida.
• The law there distinguishes between breaking into a closed dwelling in which people are present and other forms, but any form of gaining entry through a locked entry point onto another person's property is breaking and entering.
• Joiner admitted at the scene that he had broken and entered.
• Thus, he is guilty of a felony.

If an arrangement had been made, isn't it reasonable to conclude that the arresting officers would have allowed Joiner to leave without arrest, when the attendant appeared at the scene and confirmed his story?

Is it not much more reasonable to believe that story from the tow truck operator is convenient, untrue, and dishonest, whether the University of Florida and Coach Meyer knows this to be true or not?

Do you think for one moment that, if this were Ohio State, Oklahoma, USC, Texas or any other major player outside the SEC, that ESPN and others wouldn't be baying at the doors asking for transparent investigations? Do you think Mr Joiner would be playing this week, if UF were coached by a principled leader like Jim Tressel?

Please, even if you find it convenient to ignore the obvious, don't expect us to do so.

 

[ScriptOhio]

What exactly is Urban supposed to do with a situation where the charges are dropped? Or do you think Urban has control of all of this, and arranged this? Hell, as head coach, he has to respond to to the cards he is dealt, and the cards were a refused criminal deal.

I have no problem with the players reinstatement after the charges were dropped as long as UF and/or Urban Meyer were not involved in getting the charges dropped nor was given preferential treatment because he was a football player, etc. I have no idea what transpired in Gainesville; are you positively sure that Urban Meyer didn't "deal the cards"? I have no reason to believe Urban Meyer is anything but upfront and above board; however, football coaches using their "influence" to get charges on their players dropped is not unheard of.

 

[Steve19]

I think I have to agree with this, the charges were dropped so it doesn't look like there's anything to punish, at least that's my opinion on the subject.

Yes, we can all agree on that. It's the "gosh, there was never anything to this crap" that I have difficulty with.

 

[Gatorubet]

I'm not sure this refutes the convenience of the timing. If someone pulled some strings, couldn't they do so at the University level too? Merely pontificating.

That is a good point. I guess they could risk the death penalty for lack of institutional control and try to sway faculty and students, but if I was planning it, I'd stay away from faculty and students as my henchmen (henchpersons?) as the former are not happy with pay freezes while Urban is making big $$$$, and the latter are notoriously flakey, and not who I'd rely on for the "fix is in"

Why did he win the appeal? Was he not suggesting that the 2nd drug test was lingering effects from the initial drug use triggering the first violation? I thought that was how it played out. Wasn't he gone for those games due to a THIRD violation?

He won because the lying sack of shit had a good lawyer, and cast some doubt on the process because of the manner and timing of the testing. Indeed it was the next failed test that came out, but as I recall Thomas was ordered not to leave G-ville by Meyer, and the press revealed that he had gone to Orlando to some stupid haunted house, which was against the rules too. Couple that with the quiting AA, and the third test, and he was gone. Honestly, I do not remember which stuff came first.

But it cost the dumb ass an SEC and MNC ring, and millions in draft status money

 

[Gatorubet]

I have no problem with the players reinstatement after the charges were dropped as long as UF and/or Urban Meyer were not involved in getting the charges dropped nor was given preferential treatment because he was a football player, etc. I have no idea what transpired in Gainesville; are you positively sure that Urban Meyer didn't "deal the cards"? I have no reason to believe Urban Meyer is anything but upfront and above board; however, football coaches using their "influence" to get charges on their players dropped is not unheard of.

Oh shit, does it look suspicious????

My bad if I ever implied otherwise.

 

[Gatorubet]

Yes, we can all agree on that. It's the "gosh, there was never anything to this crap" that I have difficulty with.

I see your point Steve. I do not think it was ever a felony, but I absolutely think it was a misdemeanor trespass. Sorry I wasn't clearer, as it was never a "nothing to it".

 

[Steve19]

I see your point Steve. I do not think it was ever a felony, but I absolutely think it was a misdemeanor trespass. Sorry I wasn't clearer, as it was never a "nothing to it".

OK, thanks for that.

 

[Bleed S & G]

I see your point Steve. I do not think it was ever a felony, but I absolutely think it was a misdemeanor trespass. Sorry I wasn't clearer, as it was never a "nothing to it".

Why a trespass? He opened the gate and walked into the impound lot.. breaking and entering.. no?

 

[Gatorubet]

Why a trespass? He opened the gate and walked into the impound lot.. breaking and entering.. no?

Every state has different criminal statutes, and many flavors in between, so I'd defer to a criminal lawyer. Those pesky elements, each one makes a difference.

 

[Steve19]

Every state has different criminal statutes, and many flavors in between, so I'd defer to a criminal lawyer. Those pesky elements, each one makes a difference.

Well, the facts are that he broke into the gate, not opened it, and was detained at the scene because he couldn't get the gate closed again.

Anyway, this discussion is moot, is it not? He will not be prosecuted, due to the welcome actions of a benevolent and moral tow truck driver. So, why continue discussing this on a Buckeye board?

 

[Dryden]

Again, what is any coach, Tress or Meyer, to do when charges are dropped?

This is where I think you and I are arguing two different things. It's not a question of whether the charges were dropped or not, and if that is grounds for punishment, it's the "surprise" that he did in fact break some laws and isn't (so far) being charged with anything. That's the part that's suspicious.

You really believe the tow co. owner would drop charges against any other schmoe off the street?

 

[DaddyBigBucks]

...
You really believe the tow co. owner would drop charges against any other schmoe off the street?

That does seem to be the assumption of the Gator fans that are "toeing" the company line.

But doesn't this beg the question of why the tow truck operators have such a bad rep in Gainesville? If they are quick to acquiesce in the event of a misunderstanding, why was everyone so quick to assume that the tow truck guy was a fiend when all this started?

 

[Dryden]

That does seem to be the assumption of the Gator fans that are "toeing" the company line.

But doesn't this beg the question of why the tow truck operators have such a bad rep in Gainesville? If they are quick to acquiesce in the event of a misunderstanding, why was everyone so quick to assume that the tow truck guy was a fiend when all this started?

OK, DBB, I think you need to do some investigative work for us. Park in a handicapped spot, wait until you're towed, break in, and steal your car back. When the cops show up, just say you're Chris Rix and see if it's all OK, then.

Err ... nevermind. I imagine even the Tallahassee PD hate Chris Rix too.

 

[DaddyBigBucks]

OK, DBB, I think you need to do some investigative work for us. Park in a handicapped spot, wait until you're towed, break in, and steal your car back. When the cops show up, just say you're Chris Rix and see if it's all OK, then.

Err ... nevermind. I imagine even the Tallahassee PD hate Chris Rix too.

Nah, I'll just tell'em I'm Wyatt Sexton, having another "Lyme disease episode".

 

[Gatorubet]

You really seem to have a knack for comedy and should possibly consider that as a career.

Better than being entirely knackless

Please. You don't really think that we are stupid enough to buy that "good old boy" horsecrap about a pre-existing agreement to pick up this car that the tow truck operator "home cooked" up, do you? In fact, you're not stupid enough to believe that are you?

I have, in general, hardly ever been accused of underestimating a capacity for stupidity when religion, politics or team sports are the topics, but that is neither here nor there. As to your "we" comment, I haven't seen a lock step uniformity of thought on this site on most issues, and so decline your invitation to make my response a "me versus the Buckeye board" dynamic, so I will limit my response to just you right now....

As to whether TJ had spoken to the tow lot people before he went there to get his girlfriend's car back, I can only say that only anyone who was actually there could know. I also think that anyone who was not there - but who is dead certain of what did or did not happen (absent being Tony or the person at the lot) is a greater risk of wearing the stupid label than those who aren't sure but assuming. But that's just me.

Do you think that the police are in the habit of arresting Florida football captains during the season in Gainsville, without just cause?

My experience with cops is such that I think that they will arrest anybody for anything under almost any condition. I am rather certain in my view that the simple fact of an arrest is not a perfect indicator of a crime.

Facts matter? Bullshit! With the crap you have posted repeatedly on this board that completely ignores the facts?

Do yourself a favor, before you speak, get your facts straight. It will help you avoid appearing to be ignorant.

I'm sorry Mr. Moderator, but the "puffing chest out" emoticon appears to be broken.

Here are the facts:

• Breaking and entering is a felony in the state of Florida.
• The law there distinguishes between breaking into a closed dwelling in which people are present and other forms, but any form of gaining entry through a locked entry point onto another person's property is breaking and entering.
• Joiner admitted at the scene that he had broken and entered.
• Thus, he is guilty of a felony.

So if you come through my gate into my back yard, and I had spoken with you earlier and said to come on over, you are a felon. Interesting.

If an arrangement had been made, isn't it reasonable to conclude that the arresting officers would have allowed Joiner to leave without arrest, when the attendant appeared at the scene and confirmed his story?

I dunno - about as reasonable as assuming that the attendant appeared and confirmed his story before the arrest, I guess.

Is it not much more reasonable to believe that story from the tow truck operator is convenient, untrue, and dishonest, whether the University of Florida and Coach Meyer knows this to be true or not?

Here, I agree with convenient, but hesitate to believe as "untrue or dishonest" the fact of his prior arrangment without more facts than I know. You are free to draw your own conclusions of course.

Do you think for one moment that, if this were Ohio State, Oklahoma, USC, Texas or any other major player outside the SEC, that ESPN and others wouldn't be baying at the doors asking for transparent investigations?

Here, I think you are taking your 0-8 frustrations out on this particular SEC related issue. Again, my opinion. Maybe you are right and there is a vast SEC Wing conspiracy.

Do you think Mr Joiner would be playing this week, if UF were coached by a principled leader like Jim Tressel?

Ignoring the false predicate in your question, I think Tressel is no more principled a leader than Urban Meyer. I think that they are both fine coaches, people, and family men

Please, even if you find it convenient to ignore the obvious, don't expect us to do so.

I have really very little expectations regarding this thread.